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Discussion Starter #1
Ok I got a question. This has been bugging me for awhile since at a local shop I witnessed the following.

A man comes into a local Gun range and sells the man behind the counter an 11.5 inch SBR upper.

The man behind the counter said it is fine to purchase the SBR upper without an NFA transfer as long as it is not assembled to a lower receiver.

So here is my question. When buying an SBR Upper only. Do you register your existing lower as an SBR and then allowing you to put any upper you want to it? Or do you register the SBR Upper by itself and then put it on any lower you want?

I know that I may not know the full transfer that went on at the shop and may have been legit and I only got the tail end of the story but it has now raised a question to me. Well because I would love to get an SBR and use my existing lower.
 

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Who says its an SBR upper and not a pistol upper? ;)

You can purchase a shorty AR upper without any paperwork. The upper reciever is not considered a firearm. Shorty upper recievers can also be used on AR pistols, which require no special paperwork to own. The upper reciever is just considered a component of a firearm.

The lower reciever on an AR is considered the firearm, and carries the sieral number. To put the short upper reciever on the lower reciever, you must register the lower reciever as a SBR accordingly.

Interestingly enough, I have heard if you own a non-registered reciever, and a shorty upper reciever, the ATF might get a little testy and claim you display the intent to manufacture an ilegal weapon. No bueno! But from what I understad; if you own, lets say, an 10.5" SBR (like I do! yay!), and you wish to put a 7.5" or 16" upper on it, you can. But you need to take the upper off and re-install the correct length upper for storage and transportation most likely. I think (form what I understand), you can put the other sized uppers on the registered lower reciever as long as its not a permement change.

And just because I am so proud of it and love showing it off...

 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well thanks for the reply. That sounds about how I understood it. To register the lower as an SBR you would need to do that through an NFA dealer correct? And also do they actually stamp the lower? Or do you just carry paper work with the lower? Again thanks for the info.
 

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If you register a lower as an SBR (Form 1), it must be engraved with your name, city and State since you are considered the "manufacturer". If you buy a pre-registered SBR lower (Form 3), there is no need for engraving.

Either way requires a $200 tax stamp and a bunch of paperwork (and waiting). On the paperwork you have to declare the caliber and barrel length of the permanent configuration as well.

Once you have a registered SBR (or a pistol as was already mentioned), you can have as many short uppers as you like in whatever calibers you like. If you plan to change the "permanent" configuration you must notify the ATF.

Having a short upper with no registered SBR or pistol lower can land you in jail for a felony if you have any non-registered lower in your possession at the same time.
 

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Well thanks for the reply. That sounds about how I understood it. To register the lower as an SBR you would need to do that through an NFA dealer correct?
No, you send the paperwork into the ATF along with a check for the manufactuer fee ($200.00)

And also do they actually stamp the lower?
No, it's engraved with your name, city & state as the manufactuer of the SBR. You can hire someone like Orion to engrave the lower while waiting for the paperwork to come back. The "Stamp" is a true stamp. It looks like a postage stamp that say $200.00 and is "canceled" by the initials of the ATF agent.

Here's a picture of a $200.00 Transfer tax stamp



Or do you just carry paper work with the lower?
Always carry at least a copy of the paper work with the weapon.

Question is, since NFA weapons fall under federal law, do you have to show any of this paper work to local law enforcement since they can not enforce federal law?

Hardwarz
 

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You can handle the paperwork yourself, but its a good idea to consult with someone who has done it before just to make sure you dot all the "i's" and cross your "t's". Having everything done correctly will help ensure there are no delays in processing your paperwork. Then the long wait begains! You can call the ATF's office that is processing your form and ask for a status report, but I wouldn't do that more than one or two times. Then, like others have already said, you need to get your lower engraved. I got lucky and found someplace that did it for cheap (they gave me a discount), and did a great job on it.
 

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Always carry at least a copy of the paper work with the weapon.

Question is, since NFA weapons fall under federal law, do you have to show any of this paper work to local law enforcement since they can not enforce federal law?

Hardwarz
I don't know about your state, but here in Georgia, there is a specific code section defining SBRs, SBSs, silencers, etc. as illegal weapons in the state of Georgia unless the pocessor has the proper tax stamp for the item.
 

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I don't know about your state, but here in Georgia, there is a specific code section defining SBRs, SBSs, silencers, etc. as illegal weapons in the state of Georgia unless the pocessor has the proper tax stamp for the item.
When you state that you have to have "the proper tax stamp for the item" does that mean you have to get the tax stamp (ie: legal transfer or manufacture) or does that mean you have to carry the tax stamp with you where ever your weapon gos?

Out of curiosity, can you quote your state law?

Hardwarz
 

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When you state that you have to have "the proper tax stamp for the item" does that mean you have to get the tax stamp (ie: legal transfer or manufacture) or does that mean you have to carry the tax stamp with you where ever your weapon gos?

Out of curiosity, can you quote your state law?

Hardwarz

Here ya go. It cracks me up how antiquated it is written.


O.C.G.A. § 16-11-122


GEORGIA CODE
Copyright 2008 by The State of Georgia
All rights reserved.
*** Current through the 2008 Regular Session ***
TITLE 16. CRIMES AND OFFENSES
CHAPTER 11. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND SAFETY
ARTICLE 4. DANGEROUS INSTRUMENTALITIES AND PRACTICES
PART 2. POSSESSION OF DANGEROUS WEAPONS
O.C.G.A. § 16-11-122 (2008)
§ 16-11-122. Possession of sawed-off shotgun or rifle, machine gun, silencer, or dangerous weapon prohibited


No person shall have in his possession any sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer except as provided in Code Section 16-11-124.

HISTORY: Ga. L. 1968, p. 983, § 2.




O.C.G.A. § 16-11-124


GEORGIA CODE
Copyright 2008 by The State of Georgia
All rights reserved.
*** Current through the 2008 Regular Session ***
TITLE 16. CRIMES AND OFFENSES
CHAPTER 11. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND SAFETY
ARTICLE 4. DANGEROUS INSTRUMENTALITIES AND PRACTICES
PART 2. POSSESSION OF DANGEROUS WEAPONS
O.C.G.A. § 16-11-124 (2008)
§ 16-11-124. Exemptions from application of part


This part shall not apply to:

(1) A peace officer of any duly authorized police agency of this state or of any political subdivision thereof, or a law enforcement officer of any department or agency of the United States who is regularly employed and paid by the United States, this state, or any such political subdivision, or an employee of the Department of Corrections of this state who is authorized in writing by the commissioner of corrections to transfer or possess such firearms while in the official performance of his duties;

(2) A member of the National Guard or of the armed forces of the United States to wit: the army, navy, marine corps, air force, or coast guard who, while serving therein, possesses such firearm in the line of duty;

(3) Any sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer which has been modified or changed to the extent that it is inoperative. Examples of the requisite modification include weapons with their barrel or barrels filled with lead, hand grenades filled with sand, or other nonexplosive materials;

(4) Possession of a sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer by a person who is authorized to possess the same because he has registered the sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer in accordance with the dictates of the National Firearms Act, 68A Stat. 725 (26 U.S.C. Sections 5841-5862); and

(5) A security officer employed by a federally licensed nuclear power facility or a licensee of such facility, including a contract security officer, who is trained and qualified under a security plan approved by the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission or other federal agency authorized to regulate nuclear facility security; provided, however, that this exemption shall apply only while such security officer is acting in connection with his or her official duties on the premises of such nuclear power facility or on properties outside the facility property pursuant to a written agreement entered into with the local law enforcement agency having jurisdiction over the facility. The exemption under this paragraph does not include the possession of silencers.

HISTORY: Ga. L. 1968, p. 983, § 5; Ga. L. 1985, p. 283, § 1; Ga. L. 2006, p. 812, § 1/SB 532.
 

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I LOVE seeing threads about SBRs. Going through the Form 1 or Form 4 paperwork, hassle and wait is just the next level to our hobby. I wish I could afford a full-auto gun, but for now I'll just have to be happy with a shorty. I keep a copy of my tax stamp with it, as well as my C&R license (you need some type of FFL in my state to build an SBR).

7.5" Kitty-Kat custom upper. Runs like a top, I'm going to shoot to tomorrow actually, took the day off!

 

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andyzx6r

These guys have given you the right info. Stamp collecting is a fun hobby, but there is a lot of extra aggravation (and cost) associated with them at times.

I'm on my 3rd Form 1, but the last one was a suppressor this time instead of an SBR. And the wait was a lot longer than it was on my first two also. I just got my paperwork back last Saturday for it, and it was mailed to them on June 15. I didn't add up the exact number of days that is, but that's a long dang time to get them back.

Here's a link to a good post that helps answer a lot of questions and also has hotlinks to get the forms you need to manufacture an SBR. ModulARweapons.com :: View topic - NFA/SBR FAQ's and links

For keeping a copy of the forms with the firearms at all times, I just have a copy of all of mine in an envelope in the gun case I transport them in. That way I know I always have them with me, and I also have small copies of them in the pistol grip storage area too just in case I drop the envelope out and need to get to it. But so far, I've never been asked to see them by anyone, but there's always that chance.

As for your state laws, I don't know what is in the books for you. You can look them up alphabetically on the ATF's website.

As for engravers, Jason at http://www.quentin-laser.com/ is also a great guy and very professional too. Fast turnaround times, and is less expensive than Orions, but both are great to do business with. I have no problems with either.

 

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andyzx6r

These guys have given you the right info. Stamp collecting is a fun hobby, but there is a lot of extra aggravation (and cost) associated with them at times.

I'm on my 3rd Form 1, but the last one was a suppressor this time instead of an SBR. And the wait was a lot longer than it was on my first two also. I just got my paperwork back last Saturday for it, and it was mailed to them on June 15. I didn't add up the exact number of days that is, but that's a long dang time to get them back.

Here's a link to a good post that helps answer a lot of questions and also has hotlinks to get the forms you need to manufacture an SBR. ModulARweapons.com :: View topic - NFA/SBR FAQ's and links

For keeping a copy of the forms with the firearms at all times, I just have a copy of all of mine in an envelope in the gun case I transport them in. That way I know I always have them with me, and I also have small copies of them in the pistol grip storage area too just in case I drop the envelope out and need to get to it. But so far, I've never been asked to see them by anyone, but there's always that chance.

As for your state laws, I don't know what is in the books for you. You can look them up alphabetically on the ATF's website.

As for engravers, Jason at http://www.quentin-laser.com/ is also a great guy and very professional too. Fast turnaround times, and is less expensive than Orions, but both are great to do business with. I have no problems with either.

nice
the wait sounds about right. i just got my suppressor taxstamp back a about two or three weeks its still a little louder than i was hoping for but i can shoot without muffs then again im shooting it out of a 10.5" barrel two
 

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(4) Possession of a sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer by a person who is authorized to possess the same because he has registered the sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, machine gun, dangerous weapon, or silencer in accordance with the dictates of the National Firearms Act, 68A Stat. 725 (26 U.S.C. Sections 5841-5862); and

(5) A security officer employed by a federally licensed nuclear power facility or a licensee of such facility, including a contract security officer, who is trained and qualified under a security plan approved by the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission or other federal agency authorized to regulate nuclear facility security; provided, however, that this exemption shall apply only while such security officer is acting in connection with his or her official duties on the premises of such nuclear power facility or on properties outside the facility property pursuant to a written agreement entered into with the local law enforcement agency having jurisdiction over the facility. The exemption under this paragraph does not include the possession of silencers.

It does not specifically say you have to physically have the tax stamp with the weapon at all times, just that you have the weapon registered as an NFA weapon.

The part that bothers me is at the end of section 4. The "and"

Hardwarz
 

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It does not specifically say you have to physically have the tax stamp with the weapon at all times, just that you have the weapon registered as an NFA weapon.

The part that bothers me is at the end of section 4. The "and"

Hardwarz
Its written like that so you read it as:

...silencer in accordance with the dictates of the National Firearms Act, 68A Stat. 725 (26 U.S.C. Sections 5841-5862); and a security officer employed by...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Wow thanks guys. This has been an extremely helpful post. I think I may have the BRD and the only cure is more BR's. LOL anyways my next will be 10.5 or 11.5 with a silencer.
 

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wow, i have learned alot from this thread.

damn illinois...ruined my SBR dream's!
 
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