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Discussion Starter #1
So my girl and I are going to BABY-R-US for some stuff we needed for our KayBay...

I'm pullin through the parkinglot all nice and slow and this jeep almost T-bones me from going WAY to fast in the parkinglot. So I threw up my hands and was like "WTF?" So he throws his hands back up and starts following me... I didn't realize he was following me till I braked kinda quickly to grab a spot and he almost re ended me.... So I Pull up into our spot and he throws his jeep right behind my Rodeo and gets out and walks up to my car... So I get up and I'm like "WTF is your deal buddy?" and he just starts screaming at me, calling me a punk and gets up in my face... So I pushed him off me and backed up a minute telling him he better back off or I'm gonna make him wish he just would have driven off. So he gets back in my face and starts yelling at me asking me what I'm gonna do about it. My girl jumps out and kinda steps on the railing to look over the SUV at us and starts screaming at him telling him to grow up and get the hell out of here. Then he starts screaming at her and I step in his face and push him back towards his Jeep telling him to get the **** back into his jeep and drive on.



So Jenni screaming why are you doing this around a kid and out side this store, telling the man to leave and grow up. I start to walk away and grab Kaybay (whose 13 months) and he starts yelling at me calling me a pussy and he's gonna take care of this. I said buddy get back in to you car, you don't know who you're talking to and I'm not affaird to defend myself and put you on the ground. I guess that ticked him off.... He yells "Let me show you something, LET me show you something."

I was like oh ****, and Jenni starts freaking out because she heard him say he was looking for his gun and starts yelling at him more that he's a ****ing lunatic to be acting like a hoodlum around a child and infront of a baby store. So I start to freak out a bit but I'm able to remain calm. Jenni grabs KayBay out of the truck and starts to run towards the store.

Now... a little info background about me.

I've done akido jujistu for about 6 years, kick boxing 4 years, wrestled for about 6 years, won state twice, grecko roman and free style. I'm currently an active duty soldier in the ARMY. Weapons training is my life, firearm usage and safety is my hobby.

Now I am carrying at the time and I'm ready to pull and loaded.


This guy starts running around his jeep looking in all the compartments yelling he has a gun and young punks like me need to be takin care. Yelling he is looking for something and he wants to show me.

So I kinda hide near the back side of the Rodeo keeping him in full sight and waiting for him to pull a fire-arm out of his Jeep.... At the same time I'm yelling at the top of my lungs telling him to leave and he's making a huuuuuuge mistake. Then I start yelling out to people that are standing around to call the police and get some help.

I'm very glad that I started yelling that out because he just stopped acting a fool got in his jeep and took off fast.


So yeah, heart skipped a beat for about 2 seconds... but I was just waiting for him to pull a gun out of his jeep.. it would have been the last few seconds of his life. But I am very happy how I handled the situation and I am thankfull no one lost their life.




Now I was gonna pull if he would have pulled something out of his jeep because my girl and kaybay were nearly 5 feet from him trying to run to safety, I feared my life, I feared others around and I think I would have had the law on my back to pull and discharge one in to him.... but wasn't looking forward to all the legal fee's.. bah



Opinions... Did I handle the situation well? WHat would you guys have done if he would have pulled a gun out of his jeep?? Step back and try to talk to him? Or disarm the person using force so nobody else would have been harmed?
 

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No, you did not handle it well.. The "WTF Buddy?!" remark was not wise.. and if I had a woman and a 13 month old near a person who was engaging me with his/'her road rage.. my first instinct would be to get the woman and child to a safe place.

You were in control the entire time, because you were carrying. It seems to me that your first job would be to shepard the two vulnerable individuals to safety... no matter what the punk said or did, save had he got that gun out of his jeep... the you would have had to shoot him. I doubt very much that you would want your woman or 13 month old to see you do something like that.

Raymond
 

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Discussion Starter #3
ACtually, I got back in to the truck repeatedly trying to leave but Jenni was to freaked out to even listen to me to get back in the truck.






And I said that because he approached me. And when he started yelling at Jenni I got in his face and was trying to get him back in the car and go about his business.


I was handling the I-rate person, Jenni did right in taking KAY to safety. Also if you read, I said that I went to grab kaybay and he started yelling at me again.... so i'm sorry I'm not gonna grab my child when he's yelling at me like that... I'm happy that Jenni's instinct was to grab her and walk away.


AND I'm sorry, I'm not going to carry a child with a person yelling at me or trying to get in my face... what if he would have knocked my child out of my hands?!!?!? Then what, I would have repeatedly hit in him the face till he coulnt breath no more and still wouldn't have stopped.



Also, I forgot to add this... When he was yelling that he had a gun, I forgot to mention that I was telling Jenni to run to the store and get out of here... Trust me, I wasn't worried about my life, I was worried about Kay's life... TRUST ME!
 

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Great job on protecting you and yours. You kept the perp focused on you and not your wife and child. You stayed vigilant until your family was safely away and then called for help by asking bystanders to call the police. The threat was de-escalated at that point and the other drive left the scene. The best part, no one was hurt.
 

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Im not one to back down and wouldnt have but being as I carry, I feel that I must show a bit more responsibility than the average person. I thik I would have gone to phone or asked others to call the cops when he first blocked me in and got in my face. Not saying to did wrong, I wasnt there and can not judge. Just saying that I would have made a cop call pretty quick so if it did go to guns, I would be on record as calling for help from the first instant i got out of my vehicle to go into the store. Its tough sometimes, and nothing really prepares us for each lunatic out there.
 

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I don't know your state's laws regarding use of deadly force, etc. It's up to you to know them.

You done OK, considering the circumstances. My only suggestion would be that when someone says they are going for their gun, and you already have yours, I would give a loud warning something like this:

"I am legally armed. If you produce a weapon, I am going to shoot you."

Your state may require that you retreat from the confrontation before using deadly force. If so, I'd do it. Otherwise- get your loved ones back and get behind cover. If he does produce a weapon, I'd shoot the cocksucker. I'd certainly get sued, probably get arrested, possibly get charged, and likely go bankrupt. But I'd be alive, and so would my family.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
one-eyed-fatman said:
I've done akido jujistu for about 6 years, kick boxing 4 years, wrestled for about 6 years, won state twice, grecko roman and free style.
So with all this talent why didn't you take him down before he could go for a gun?


3 reasons.

1. He did not touch me, he didnt not show any threat towards me at the time with his hands or feet.


2. Sometimes you don't know your own strenght, actually most of the times you don't. I try to stay away from using my taught skills for the fact that I can be deadly with my hands. In most cases, a fist fight with the out come of a death can be a hell of a court battle and 9 out of 10 times going to land you in jail for a long time.


3. I wasn't near him when he was searching for his gun. I didn't want to get close to him, I am not trained to disarm a perp with a gun, only a knife. So if he would have drawn, I would have rather taken a shot if I feeled my life was in dangered, rather then approach him and try to disarm him while opening a chance for me to get shot with nothing in hand. Also he was veribly telling him he had a gun, he didnt not tell me he was going to shoot me... all he was yelling is he was looking for his gun. That does not, at the time, make my life feel endangered enough for me to use force when not needed.
 

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I'm guilty of the "WTF"???? throwing the hands in the air gesture quite often myself while on the road or in parking lots.

It is a bad habit, but it's hard to ignore dumbasses. I don't mean getting beat to a parking space kind of dumbasses, but the idiots who risk creating an accident because they don't follow the basic rules of driving.

Congratulations on keeping your cool. I'm glad no one got hurt and maybe we'll all learn something from your experience.

bd
 

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I am sure you can figure out what you did wrong. The "wtf" comment escalated the situation, but you backed down and he continued to be the aggressor...you were in the right, but barely.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
invssgt said:
You done OK, considering the circumstances. My only suggestion would be that when someone says they are going for their gun, and you already have yours, I would give a loud warning something like this:

"I am legally armed. If you produce a weapon, I am going to shoot you."
You know I seriously thought about saying this.. but I didnt want him to take that as a threat. I didn't want him to get all pissy.. oh you have a gun let me get mine. BUt I DID seriously think about saying this.. but everything was happening so fast, I was just worried about my Jen and Kay.. I could have cared less if he would have struck me or attacked me.. as long as you don't touch my loved ones.
 

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Whenever I hear a story like this the one the one thing I would have done differantly would be to not get out of the car. There is absolutely no upside to getting out of the car when you have someone who is unhinged like this guys was. You are opening yourself up to get assualted and possible your wife and daughter. STAY IN THE CAR with the windows up.

I would have pulled my cellphone out and dialed 911 and then wait to hit the call button. Show him the phone with 911 on the screen. I bet 95% most people will leave once they see that you are not going to reciprocate their bad behavior.

In this type of situation my plan is to stay in the car until they loose interest and leave. They can call me every name in the book and I would just turn on the radio and ignore them. In MN we can not be an active participant in any type of altercation. WE have to try to diffuse the situation and leave. Yelling and cursing is not recomended. You want any and all witnesses to say that you were as calm and quite as a lamb, and that Mr Crazy was the only one at fault.

I am glad that you were prepared to defend your family, but some of your actions escalated the situation which can be a bad thing if you end up shooting someone. Sorry to Monday morning quarterback so much, but that is what you will get when you post in on the internet.
 

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Captain Ray said:
No, you did not handle it well.. The "WTF Buddy?!" remark was not wise.. and if I had a woman and a 13 month old near a person who was engaging me with his/'her road rage.. my first instinct would be to get the woman and child to a safe place.

You were in control the entire time, because you were carrying. It seems to me that your first job would be to shepard the two vulnerable individuals to safety... no matter what the punk said or did, save had he got that gun out of his jeep... the you would have had to shoot him. I doubt very much that you would want your woman or 13 month old to see you do something like that.

Raymond
+1
You did not handle it well at all......but that is me talking about an incident that I was not their to see....just my 2 cents
 

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Discussion Starter #14
packing_in_la said:
I am sure you can figure out what you did wrong. The "wtf" comment escalated the situation, but you backed down and he continued to be the aggressor...you were in the right, but barely.

Let me explain my self a little better.. sorry I now realize this is a nice topic of conversation and I am going to explain to the T the very beginning.




When I slammed on my breaks.. I throw up my arms and was "like" wtf is going on, or what are you doing, or just what the hell...

He returned the hands and when I fully passed him he started following me.


Now-


We parked... I looked in my mirrors I see his jeep screech to a hault right behind my truck blocking me in.. he gets out of his car and is heading up to my me.. and I got out and walked up to him, met him right behind my truck.



The first words was

HIM-"Why are you throwing your hands up me little punk? Who the **** do you think you are?" ****takes a step closer to my face and is like maybe 6 inches from me and moving closer****



ME- "Do you not know how to drive in a parkinglot buddy, what the **** is your problem?" then I said "get out of my face step back from me"



him- "what are you going to do about it punk? huh what are you going to do about it??"




Then thats when I started to push him off me because he came closer, and after me pushing him off me he didnt pursue that as a threat thats when he directed his attention to Jenni and was screaming at her... so after that I got back in his face and then you can read the rest in the first post.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
sturmruger said:
Whenever I hear a story like this the one the one thing I would have done differantly would be to not get out of the car. There is absolutely no upside to getting out of the car when you have someone who is unhinged like this guys was. You are opening yourself up to get assualted and possible your wife and daughter. STAY IN THE CAR with the windows up.

I would have pulled my cellphone out and dialed 911 and then wait to hit the call button. Show him the phone with 911 on the screen. I bet 95% most people will leave once they see that you are not going to reciprocate their bad behavior.

In this type of situation my plan is to stay in the car until they loose interest and leave. They can call me every name in the book and I would just turn on the radio and ignore them. In MN we can not be an active participant in any type of altercation. WE have to try to diffuse the situation and leave. Yelling and cursing is not recomended. You want any and all witnesses to say that you were as calm and quite as a lamb, and that Mr Crazy was the only one at fault.

I am glad that you were prepared to defend your family, but some of your actions escalated the situation which can be a bad thing if you end up shooting someone. Sorry to Monday morning quarterback so much, but that is what you will get when you post in on the internet.

I agree with you too, I should have stayed in the car.. but I think all of us have a bit of road rage and thinking most of the times people are just all talk, that we would have stepped out the vechile to realize what was going on...


NOW

I did not think it was going to be like this when I stepped out of the vechile.



I did repeatedly stepped back in my vechile asking for jenni to follow but she couldnt hear me from me being inside and her being on the outside trying to get to KAY and get her out of there..



SO yes, I tried twice to get bacvk in my car to sit there or even just to leave and circle the block till he got bored or left... BUT he did block me in with his jeep.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
XD BACKUP GUN said:
Captain Ray said:
No, you did not handle it well.. The "WTF Buddy?!" remark was not wise.. and if I had a woman and a 13 month old near a person who was engaging me with his/'her road rage.. my first instinct would be to get the woman and child to a safe place.

You were in control the entire time, because you were carrying. It seems to me that your first job would be to shepard the two vulnerable individuals to safety... no matter what the punk said or did, save had he got that gun out of his jeep... the you would have had to shoot him. I doubt very much that you would want your woman or 13 month old to see you do something like that.

Raymond
+1
You did not handle it well at all......but that is me talking about an incident that I was not their to see....just my 2 cents

then you tell me how I was suppose to handle this??

I have explained my self to the T in every aspect. I tried to grab my child out of her car seat but he was getting closer to me and to my daughter, so I stopped and closed the door. I tried to get back in my vechile, but Jenni wouldnt follow on the other side, so what am I suppose to do??!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Sit in the car with her running out side trying to get Kay out and him out there yelling at her?!!? Um no, I stepped back out because he was still yelling.


Lastly I believe I did everything right, I remained calm, I didnt pull, I didn't show, nothing.

Also my cell phone was in the diaper bag that jenni had around her shoulder.

Now that I think about this more and more, I think I handled this well... Tell me how it should have went then.



Oh and let me tell you this.... I was screaming at the end to call the cops and there were employee's walking out of BABY-R-Us...I was mainly focused on them.. I was yelling "can you call the cop?!?!" There ****ing response was "What for?!?" and kept walking on about their business to there cars because their shift was over and ****....

Then I looked around and started yelling it out everywhere.. I guess thats what made him get in his jeep and take off like a bat of hell....
 

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Now while I am sitting in the car if he was crazy enough to break a window or get a tire iron. I would have warned him, and then shot his ass.

With you being blocked in you have absolutely no avenue for escape so you would have had to shoot him.
 

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I think it's hard to be in a situation and then later ask for exceptence or opinions. You did what you thought was right.

This shouldn't turn into a slam Lucky thread, but instead turn into hey, you could've done this or hey, next time try and do this...

We should be here to help the others out..
 

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With my wife and a child in the vehicle with me and an obviously agitated dumbass approaching I think I might have exited the vehcle to meet him.

Especially since he had me blocked in.

I wouldn't have wanted to chance a confrontation from my driver's seat with my loved ones right beside me not knowing if or how this idiot was armed.

Had I been alone I might have reacted differently.

As sturmruger said, it's all Monday morning quarterbacking.

Again I commend you for not slapping the crap out of the guy and escalating the situation.

bd
 

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I hope you will remember, that I posted only to your original post. I only had that to go by at the time. After reading your followup comments I think you reacted like any good gun-totin' American.

Hindsight is always 20/20.. there are some things you could have done better, but at the end of the day.. you did not get hurt, and Jennie and your child are all safe. Plus.. you didn't have to shoot anybody.

I think that is where my primary focus is... the woman and the baby. Of course if your woman is anything like mine.. who thinks she is ivincible as long as I am nearby to protect her.. who will tell a jerk what a jerk he is because "my man won't let anything happen to me!!!" These things just happen... and you are left to deal with it.



Raymond
 
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