[nateroach]

So I finally got my first AR yesterday (link) and i am eager to get out and shoot it. Today I was looking through my Brownells mag and saw the KNS non rotating pins. Are these a necessity? are they worth the ~$35 for them. The gun is mostly a SHTF and range gun. Is there any advantages to using these KNS pins?

Thanks,
nateroach

 

[mvician]

Are they a necessitiy ? NO
Are the worth the $35 ? that's up to you

I have them on a few of mine.

 

[APismoClam]

I have the KNS pins on both of my ARs. I've found that in addition to the benefits of the anti-rotation for the holes in the lower, the polished stainless hammer/trigger pins that are included as part of the package made my trigger pulls feel considerably smoother than using the rough original pins. Both of my ARs now feel "almost" like they have custom triggers in them. They're very well made.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[ORD]

+1 to what mvician said.

I have them on one of my AR-15's and one AR-10. They are good products, especially when using them with a Chip McCormick drop-in trigger group, but they are by no means necessary. The only place I would say you would definitely want them is on something FA because the abuse that FA fire can have on a lower is pretty significant. You don't want your $12K M16's lower receiver to get screwed up because your trigger pins have wobbled and caused damage to your lower trigger pin holes.

As for a SHTF rifle...I don't know that I would want them because if you have to swap out your trigger, change springs, etc., then you have to find the @#$% allen wrench to take out the pins instead of just punching them out.

 

[spoolup]

The only AR they are required on are 9mms or full autos IMHO. The 9mm is a requirement, the full auto is sort of insurance on your purchase. I have them on all of my ARs 9mm, 5.56, and 308s. I carry a leatherman on me and have one in each car, each has the wave tool kit bit kit things that have the size to remove them if necessary.

 

[darkvibe]

The only AR they are required on are 9mms or full autos IMHO. The 9mm is a requirement, the full auto is sort of insurance on your purchase.

I agree with this statement. Although I do have them installed in my newest build.

 

[Joeywhat]

I'm going to throw one on mine, eventually. Right now I can't get through 100 rounds without the pin falling out. I figure it's either a bad pin or bad hole...but getting the non-rotating pins solves the problems either way.

 

[John A.]

I like the way spoolup put it in perspective.

I have a set on my long range rifle which I didn't really like on it much because it seemed to cause a heavier trigger pull on it, but have been seriously considering adding a set to my registered SBR lower just for the extra insurance.

I'm not entirely sure that I agree they'd not be worthy of a SHTF gun though. That's not really the time to realize that you need to change your springs, but it is a great time to not have a pin walk out effectively locking up the trigger so you can't shoot.

Though it would be nice instead of having allen screws if they were straight screws. That way you could take them out with a pocket knife or a fingernail or something instead of that allen wrench if you just had no other way around it. Or even better yet, I could live with a small knurled thumb screw sticking out of the side of it if I was hard core enough. LOL

And as MVician said, no, they're not necessary. It's just another thing I look at as preventive maintenance.

Edit to add, there are a few places making anti-walk pins that use little C clips to hold the pin in place, but they do nothing to keep your holes from wearing like the KNS anti-rotational pins.

The anti walk pins are a lot cheaper and I think it's DPMS and JP Enterprise who make them.

 

[nateroach]

Thanks for all of the input on the matter. I think that I will start looking into getting a set, if for nothing else than preventative measures. Anyone know of a good deal on them at the moment?

nateroach

 

[HB of CJ]

No, you don't REALLY need them. The stock pins work just fine with a trigger group that has no problems. However, if you feel you need them, then no harm is done.

Funny how things get started. As I heard it (could be wrong) a bunch of factory hammers got made 20 years ago without the "J" spring installed inside the hammer.

Just a little dinky tiny spring steel length of wire bent into, you guessed it, the letter "J". Goes way inside the Hammer and centers on that middle groove on the pin.

Anyway, a batch of AR-15 SP1 hammers got loose in the after market that worked fine until you fired the rifle 5 times, then the hammer pin walked out of the receiver.

When the hammer pin "walked" the rifle stopped. Quick examination reveled the missing "J" spring. The "best" fix was to make up a batch of pins with circlip grooves

At each end of the pins, plus an extra length sosss small circlips would physically hold in the pins instead of that missing "J" spring. Crazy how things happen sometimes.

The "fix" was actually better than the first design. Yeah, such hammer and trigger pins look odd....but they work fine. The trigger and hammer float. Match triggers use them.

Leaving out "J" springs did happen. It also crippled the realibility of the Sterling made Armalite AR180 rifle. Labour problems with quality control issues. Thanks. HB of CJ

 

[Krackels]

I put a cheap pair on my AR15 because my pins kept walking out. Some said my springs were in backwards (after everyone including my gunsmith who's an AR god checked), they weren't. We came to the conclusion that as a result of some weird manufacturing defect either the pins (from Del-ton as part of a kit) or the holes in the lower (Stag) were the wrong size.

After putting the anti-walk pins in I haven't had any problems.

Eta: I should mention that I don't have non-rotating pins, but just anti-walk pins.

 

[Krackels]

The only AR they are required on are 9mms or ... The 9mm is a requirement. . . .

Why do you say that?

I'm just wondering because I have a RRA 9mm with everything still stock and i haven't seen any problems.

 

[spoolup]

The 9mm beats the piss out of the hammer pin, ramping the bolt and using a standard AR hammer helps a bunch, but its still puts out a beating on this pin. The KNS hammer pin is SS and by locking it down, prevents it from snapping but can help prevent wear on the receiver as well. Just a small step to prevent something from possible breaking. There are alot of threads about this at ARF in the pistol cal section.

 

[John A.]

The 9mm beats the piss out of the hammer pin, ramping the bolt and using a standard AR hammer helps a bunch, but its still puts out a beating on this pin. The KNS hammer pin is SS and by locking it down, prevents it from snapping but can help prevent wear on the receiver as well. Just a small step to prevent something from possible breaking. There are alot of threads about this at ARF in the pistol cal section.

I don't usually do this but I don't have anything to add but +1

As far as ramping the bolt, Adco sells bolts already pre-ramped for $190 or will ramp your existing 9mm bolt carrier for $45 I think. Plus use a standard flat face (DPMS) hammer and you're rockin'.

 

[nateroach]

Forgive me as I am very new to the AR scene, but I think that I have the anti walk pins based on the presence of the c-clips

Should these be sufficient for moderate range use and SHTF?

Thanks again for all of the input

nateroach

 

[John A.]

Those are the antiwalk pins I mentioned earlier.

I run them on a couple of my AR's just so I know I will never have a pin walk out and lock up the trigger at the worst possible time.

Those are good to go for range, defense, or whatever.

 

[HB of CJ]

nateroach, yes, they do look like anti-walk pins. For whats its worth, I would leave them in. If your fine AR-15 came with that way, then there is a good chance they did it for a good reason.

Like you MAY have an upgraded trigger group, which would be cool. If you are inclined to do an occasional detail-strip (not really necessary) take a look at your hammer pin in the middle.

If you see some scratches all around the pin, it probably means you still have a "J" sping inside the hammer. No big deal, don't worry about it. But if there are no scratches, it probably means you have...

...an upgraded hammer, (like match?) which means probably the rest of the group has been upgraded also. The circlips look a little strange, but soss does the entire rifle. Enjoy. HB of CJ

 

[nateroach]

Thanks for all of the input guys. I do have an upgraded trigger group, I have a RRA 2-stage trigger. As far as the rest of the rifle looking strange that is up to the owner . Here are some more pics and specs for you to decide...

Some specs for the build
Sun Devil upper and lower
YHM 16" Diamond Fluted barrel
Magpul CTR stock
LMT FA carrier with enhanced bolt
ERGO grip
YHM full length (rifle) lightweight quadrail free float handguard
RRA 2 stage trigger
ARMS #40L rear sight
YHM flip up front sight

nateroach

 

[John A.]

As far as the rest of the rifle looking strange that is up to the owner.
nateroach

Yep, you're right, it does look strange.




:lol:
Just kidding, I like the way the billet's look. That is some unusual looking barrel flutes though.

 

[HB of CJ]

Wow...one cool looking AR-15! Wish I was $RICH$! Only thing I would do is ditch that collapsable stock and put on a normal RIFLE stock, preferably a M16A2 type. Buffer MAY be heavier. You MAY find the present stock a little bit noisy and...and...wobby-ly. (sp) (ww) I can't speeel. I'm envious toos. He he he. HB of CJ