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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Time for a new build project, going to build an AR pistol with the intent to eFile a Form1 to SBR it.

Aero Precision M4E1 Enhanced, Stripped Lower, FDE
Aero Precision M4E1 Threaded, .223/5.56, 10.5", 1:7 Complete/Barreled Upper, FDE
Toolcraft Premium 5.56 BCG, Nickel Boron
BCM AR15 Buffer Kit with H3 buffer
(after getting the NFA stamp, I'll add a BCM Mod 0 SOPMOD stock, FDE)
BCM Gunfighter Enhanced Lower Parts Kit, FDE
(I might substitute the BCM PNT trigger group that comes in the LPK for a Larue MBT-2S trigger group)
Radian Raptor LT Ambidextrous charging handle, FDE
Magpul MBUS Pro sights
Vortex Spitfire 1x AR Prism Scope

So far I've the Upper, Lower and BCG.
Air gun Trigger Wood Gun barrel Gun accessory
 

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Are you certain on the quality of "Aero"?

The reason I ask is once it is in the NFA registry, it costs more money to change to a different brand (meaning you have to start the process all over.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Are you certain on the quality of "Aero"?

The reason I ask is once it is in the NFA registry, it costs more money to change to a different brand (meaning you have to start the process all over.
Not my first NFA or SBR, it's been thought out.

Aero Precision will work just fine for upper/lower, solid midrange quality.
If anything was going to change on the gun it'd be a better quality barrel.
 

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Not my first NFA or SBR, it's been thought out.

Aero Precision will work just fine for upper/lower, solid midrange quality.
If anything was going to change on the gun it'd be a better quality barrel.
Ok
Just asking because I put an m4e1 together for a friend a few months ago and it's a rattler, the tension screw between upper and lower you tighten under the grip, does nothing, all the way in and it sounds like a baby rattle.
That's my only experience with Aero, but I'm done with them after seeing that.
 

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@.45fan, I'm a bit surprised to hear about the rattle myself. It could be tolerance stack up I suppose.

Most of the components that I have from Aero are Milspec, but I have found Aero to be exceptional quality. I've got an Aero/Rock River rifle with no problems at all-- it has an extremely tight fit (no use of a set screw). My Atlas handguard also seems very high quality-- my only complaint is that it has a slight slant towards one side, but not enough to worry about. The Aero Milspec trigger is of exceptional quality as well... seems about as good as a much more expensive trigger I have... but I'm not really a "trigger snob."

@ChileRelleno, I understand not wanting to get anymore calibers, but I do have to say that 300 Blackout is awesome if you change your mind haha.
 

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Hmmm, that's first I've heard of their Atlas R-One with taper lock having that issue, I'll be watching for it.

This one is locked up tight right now, will have to see what a few hundred rounds does to it.
As stated it'll be built as a pistol until I get around to a form1, which will be a few range trips.

@.45fan, I'm a bit surprised to hear about the rattle myself. It could be tolerance stack up I suppose.

Most of the components that I have from Aero are Milspec, but I have found Aero to be exceptional quality. I've got an Aero/Rock River rifle with no problems at all-- it has an extremely tight fit (no use of a set screw). My Atlas handguard also seems very high quality-- my only complaint is that it has a slight slant towards one side, but not enough to worry about. The Aero Milspec trigger is of exceptional quality as well... seems about as good as a much more expensive trigger I have... but I'm not really a "trigger snob."
The build was all are except the barrel, that was a faxon pencil barrel.

It rattled right from the start, before the handguard or barrel we're installed.

I have used their buffer kits in probably two dozen builds, their LPK in a few, their barrel (since they own ballistic advantage) in a couple, this was the first that used their lower, upper and handguard.
The final piece to arrive was the handguard Atlas R One (which was on backorder until September), but it seems to be good.
The upper and lower came from primary arms last year in June or July.

I tried a different pin set thinking maybe those were to small, but nothing changed. I told him he could try to find a longer tension screw and try it, but I'm not sure if he did or not.
 

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The build was all are except the barrel, that was a faxon pencil barrel.

It rattled right from the start, before the handguard or barrel we're installed.

I have used their buffer kits in probably two dozen builds, their LPK in a few, their barrel (since they own ballistic advantage) in a couple, this was the first that used their lower, upper and handguard.
The final piece to arrive was the handguard Atlas R One (which was on backorder until September), but it seems to be good.
The upper and lower came from primary arms last year in June or July.

I tried a different pin set thinking maybe those were to small, but nothing changed. I told him he could try to find a longer tension screw and try it, but I'm not sure if he did or not.
That's unfortunate. I'll make sure to look out/check for that next time I start a build (probably will be quite a while).

I don't care for them as a solution, but he could try an "accurizing wedge" if it is really loose and the set screw isn't helping.
 

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That's unfortunate. I'll make sure to look out/check for that next time I start a build (probably will be quite a while).

I don't care for them as a solution, but he could try an "accurizing wedge" if it is really loose and the set screw isn't helping.
I'll suggest that to him, I hadn't thought of that myself, thanks.
 

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Over the last 5 or so years there have been occasional/sporadic reports (reliable) of Aero lowers being out-of-spec. Such issues were typically resolved favorably for the affected owners, but there were a couple of instances that blew up various social-media/forums (M4Carbine.net and the P&S Forums and FB pages are where I remember seeing those cases). Aero is still looked upon favorably as a mid-tier make, if not better, IAFAIK.]

With that in-mind, @.45fan , I'd encourage your friend to contact Aero to see if they'd be willing to make-right. It's more than likely that they will.

And also with the above said, @ChileRelleno , if you haven't filed yet, if I were in your shoes, I'd drop a known-in-spec FCG and known-in-spec BCG (be sure the bolt passes headspace, too and the ramps look good - I know you likely know all of this already, but heck, it's a friendly reminder that I'd feel bad leaving out, if only for the sake of completeness 馃槉 ), and also throw in a known-in-spec LPK in there for the bolt catch and mag release, just to be sure that everything at least passes muster (unless you've got a set of gauges - which, of-course, I'd be jealous of) for these critical dimensions. In terms of the mag-well, I'd just go with a bunch of different, filled, mags, to see about its tolerances. I mean, pretty much anything can be fixed......

(
)

^ but for something you're going in the registry, well.....I'd honestly rather not, right? ;) And as the good man said, "trust, but verify" - if it was my money, I honestly wouldn't even be shy about double-checking a Knights or even a Hodge.

My own personal n of 1 in terms of Aero is a complete AC-15 that I purchased in 2016, specifically so that I can have it as a hobby gun to take to a local armorer class. It was an informal class, so there was no gauging, but everything checked-out via the typical hobbyist-level empirical assessments made using known-quality in-spec parts as makeshift gauges. Although the lower does have one of their tension screws in-place, I actually never bothered to engage it: this particular upper/lower mates reasonably tightly, and is actually one of my less wobbly ones.

My understanding is that some degree of wobble between the upper and lower will not actually negatively impact the accuracy/precision or the function of the rifle. It's also my understanding that some cases, even if one managed to make the upper wobble "less," dry, when one inserts a magazine, the wobble to come back - or the opposite: that a slightly wobbly pairing can actually tension-up when a loaded magazine is inserted. I also have been taught -and have observed- that even if one were to get it "perfect" (either via tensioning screw or a wedge-type insert) over time, the wedge/tensioner material will compress and/or wear, and the wobble return yet again. Finally, it's been my understanding that for an average shooter using vetted-for-gun range-fodder ammo, it's really that unique ammo/gun match and the shooter's skill that's going to be the limiting factors.

Both the late William Larson (Iraqgunz on M4C.net, Semper Paratus Arms) as well as Chad Albrecht (SOTAR) absolutely despised the Accu-Wedge. The late and legendary Pat Rogers also had a picture of it in his "book-of-infamy," detailing an Ascu-Wedge induced failure that required separation of the upper/lower in order to make-function again.

I don't believe that Larsen really felt that strongly about tensioning screws - he only thought that they were extraneous and not needed.

Albrecht outright thinks they have no place on a serious gun, and recommends removing them.

Acceptable gap between upper and lower is 0.5 mm (20 thousandths of an inch), and a simple feeler gauge can be used to assess whether the pairing is within spec. Gauging, you'll see just how huge of a wobble something that's just under the 20-thou mark can produce, it's literally cringy :ROFLMAO:. On the SOTAR FB Group, there's video of a member's billet upper/lower combo from one company that was gauging 15- to 17-thou, and you'd swear it was listing-over like the Titanic......

Getting back to the by-Hoyle from guys like Larson and Albrecht, they don't like tensioning devices because the extra tension can -over time- eccentrically wear ("egg out") the rear takedown pin holes. This will actually then worsen the wobble (rinse and repeat, yeah, not good, right?). And if tolerances are bad enough, carrier drag on the top of the lower extension (from the tensioning mechanism forcing the upper upwards) can manifest.

More widely accepted fixes include shimming the front take-down pin, using oversized takedown pins (IIRC, JP and Griffin), or selecting an upper/lower pairing more carefully (hence a part of the reason why some folks pay for "matched" upper/lower sets - there's that video of a Hodge where a lights/laser/canned upper just sits there, without either front or rear pins in place o_O ), or even looking for an upper with perhaps a bit thicker anodizing. Overall, unless the slop is really bad and the gap excessively wide, this is just something that bothers our OCD, and doesn't at all impact either accuracy/precision or function.

Many of you have seen this picture before. The upper/lower fit on this Frankengun (billet lightweight Battle Arms Development lower on a complete BCM upper - Let's see your AR setups...<---- I mistakenly wrote "forged" in that thread) is on the sloppy side - I've never gauged it, but it's definitely noticeable. The lower came with a tensioning screw, but after initially using it to tighten things up, I decided to just back it off and never bothered with it (I also haven't taken it out [yet], since the gun for me occupies the role of range/training beater only).

I'm not the greatest shooter. Here, I'm using 55 gr. range-fodder (I think it was either Wolf Gold or Indy, either way, it's c.2014-'16). I can go all day on the torso at the 300 standing unsupported. Stabilized like this (you can't see it in this picture, but my right leg is in a fracture brace :p), the 6" plate is boring, too.

1639017116141.png



When I zero for class, at the 50, as long as I put in the work, a nice 5-leafed clover is not out of the ordinary, again with just trashy 55 gr. fodder.

I've mortared this gun a few times, too, from induced stoppages in training classes. It has yet to snap in half, even though the fit is kinda sloppy. 馃槄

But really, a bit of wobble between the upper and lower wouldn't be my big worry, here. What I'd like to double-check (to the best of my abilities) is that the lower is within tolerances, first and foremost. (y)
 

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As always, a great post @TSiWRX.

Over the last 5 or so years there have been occasional/sporadic reports (reliable) of Aero lowers being out-of-spec. Such issues were typically resolved favorably for the affected owners*, but there were a couple of instances that blew up various social-media/forums (M4Carbine.net and the P&S Forums and FB pages are where I remember seeing those cases). Aero is still looked upon favorably as a mid-tier make, if not better, IAFAIK.]
*My bold in the quote.

I've noticed that gun forums seem to go through "good lists" and "bad lists" and to pick the "darling" brand sometimes with good reason and sometimes without...For example, RRA was the darling for a while and then it fell out of favor and now it's back on the mid-tier list. Same thing happened with Colt, Daniel Defense, Spikes... At the end of the day, some manufacturers are more reliable than others, but as far as I can tell most AR15's (or AR15 builds) within the $750-$1500.00 price range seem to be decent quality. So far, I've had decent luck in the "mid-tier price point," but for the (hopefully unusual) instances where something does not seem quite right, I think the above described customer service is where the rubber meets the road.
 
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^ I definitely won't say that I've been around for a long time - I've only really been in the shooting community for 10 years or so. 馃槉

But even with my short time in the hobby/industry, I have definitely also seen - first-hand - this type of perception among many.

I truly believe that it's cyclical: that companies go through good times and bad - times of staggering increases in profitability, with tremendous and perhaps even unforeseen workload with few sufficiently trained staff as well as times when they are barely keeping their heads above-water in a less pleasant sense. In many of these instances, product QA/QC suffers in a multitude of ways, and it can make for drastic swings in consumer perception and expectations that are then quickly diffuse through our rather tight-knit community through simple "word of mouth."

The other issue that I've seen as my entry into the gun world mirrored the rapid rise of social-media in this same sector is that there are also times when a mistaken assumption/claim takes on a life of its own, before those who know better have a chance to step in to offer correction or perspective. For example, on the SOTAR FB group, recently, a set of pictures of the FCG and receiver end plate on his new LMT was submitted by a member who expressed disappointment (which, BTW, I don't believe is wrong, even though that as an LMT owner myself since 2011, I've known that their guns are often cosmetically far from perfect 馃槄 ) that such a costly (and highly regarded) rifle (brand/make) bore such obvious imperfections. Almost immediately, knee-jerk posts appeared of "OMG their quality really have fallen lately" and "that's defective, I'd contact C/S" and the like. It wasn't until a few posts later that more knowledgeable folks stepped in to declare that the surface imperfections (i.e. cosmetic blemishes) seen on those parts were normal, and came from stamping/die shearing.

And absolutely - it's absolutely the C/S that really matters. (y)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Every manufacturer has quality issues now and then... Every last one of them.
And everyone knows that people experiencing problems are very vociferous, and plenty of people hop the bad mouthing bandwagon.
And all too often without having contacted the manufacturer.
Damned straight contact Aero Precision.
This lower/upper fit together tighter than anything else I have.

Thanks people, please note that I'm building it as a pistol first... Then SBR'ing it.
I've been around the block and played doctor a few times too.
I'm good to go, have four other AR's and are way ahead of ya on checking what can be easily checked.

Anxiously waiting on our '21 production bonus from corporate so I can get the rest of the components and accessories to finish it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
A few changes made here and there in parts, and a few more still likely to be made.
But she is headspaced and ready to test fire at the range this coming weekend.

Not sure I like the BCM Mod 3 Gunfighter pistol grip, probably will go with the Ergo.
Might even do the Ergo in black for a more balanced contrast scheme.

The optic was taken off another AR, still want the Vortex Spitfire.

Gonna put a Noveske KX3 Flaming Pig on the barrel.

 

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A few changes made here and there in parts, and a few more still likely to be made.
But she is headspaced and ready to test fire at the range this coming weekend.

Not sure I like the BCM Mod 3 Gunfighter pistol grip, probably will go with the Ergo.
Might even do the Ergo in black for a more balanced contrast scheme.

The optic was taken off another AR, still want the Vortex Spitfire.

Gonna put a Noveske KX3 Flaming Pig on the barrel.

Now all it needs is a 10.5" 300 blackout barrel 馃槀
 

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A few changes made here and there in parts, and a few more still likely to be made.
But she is headspaced and ready to test fire at the range this coming weekend.

Not sure I like the BCM Mod 3 Gunfighter pistol grip, probably will go with the Ergo.
Might even do the Ergo in black for a more balanced contrast scheme.

The optic was taken off another AR, still want the Vortex Spitfire.

Gonna put a Noveske KX3 Flaming Pig on the barrel.
Nice. I would go with a black pistol grip myself, but I like two-tone guns, cars, etc.
 
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NO! No new calibers!
Y'all are evil bastards!
Ya have to understand that'd cost me too much money to stock 3-5K rounds of .300 AAC.
You say that, but the cost of .300 AAC is the only thing keeping my other rifles from becoming safe queens haha ;)
 
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