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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

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Very sweet gun, although I think you're an idiot if you take 800 yard shots at large game.

The price of ammo for that thing is just too high.

If I needed a long range big game gun it would probably be a .300 win mag. Much cheaper ammo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Nobody is saying to use it at that range for hunting. They are just stating the fact that that round still has the energy capable of taking game at that range. That's pretty damn impressive in my book. :) My .460 S&W has the same energy at 300 yards as my .44 Mag does at the muzzle. But is anyone saying to use it to take 300 yd shots on deer? C'mon man. :rolleyes:
 

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Very true. I didn't mean you as in you, but anyone.
 

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Overkill? Yeah it's an American thing.
I know a guy that shoots florida white tail with a .300 win mag. Sure, it's effective.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I doubt anyone buying this rifle is really thinking about using it for hunting whitetail deer. As for overkill, you could say that a .30-06 is overkill for a deer. Or any gun really. This grizzly was killed by my friend's dad Jake Powell, with his own homemade long bow, using his own homemade wooden shaft arrows. Bear ran 20 yards before folding up.








Here's the original post from another forum right after I received the email from my buddy about the big news. I knew I remembered something about 20 yards.


https://www.1911addicts.com/threads/my-buddys-dads-grizzly-bow-kill.7072/
 

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I say you're an idiot for making that comment.

There are plenty of folks that have taken big game at long distances. Most of those hunters know the rifles and it's capabilities.

Just because you are not at that skill level doesn't mean you should bash those that have harvested animals at long range.

I know that if you hunt in PNW that you are able to get some long shots. Not every hunting scenario involves taking a shot under 100 yards.

I'd say shooting long range isn't for everyone...be it shooting at paper or at wildlife. There will always be an argument for and against it. I've seen some incredible shots on game at long distances.

I also like how people always complain about cost of ammo. The cost of ammo isn't a huge factor considering most people are reloading. The biggest cost from say shooting 338LM to a 300WM is the cost of the brass. As the best brass for 338LM is Lapua or Norma which will run you about $2.50 per piece of virgin brass. Now, keep in mind you are going to get a lot more loadings from using Lapua or Norma brass then you would from using crappy Hornady 338LM brass.

If you are shooting 338LM with just using factory ammo...you will need some serious disposable income as factory 338LM is expensive. I don't know anyone owning a 338LM that isn't reloading for that caliber.

Very sweet gun, although I think you're an idiot if you take 800 yard shots at large game.

The price of ammo for that thing is just too high.

If I needed a long range big game gun it would probably be a .300 win mag. Much cheaper ammo.
 

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Nobody is saying to use it at that range for hunting. They are just stating the fact that that round still has the energy capable of taking game at that range. That's pretty damn impressive in my book. :) My .460 S&W has the same energy at 300 yards as my .44 Mag does at the muzzle. But is anyone saying to use it to take 300 yd shots on deer? C'mon man. :rolleyes:
With gain twist rifling and a 200 yd zero I would say taking a deer from that distance with a .460 would be reasonable based on skill and practice. According to my literature from S&W, it was made for long range pistol hunting.
 

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Very sweet gun, although I think you're an idiot if you take 800 yard shots at large game.
That's an interesting perspective and a fairly broad statement. I'm assuming you live in a high population coastal state, but I could be wrong, you may just be ignorant.

Head out to the West and you'll find that shooting 600-800 yards is not uncommon. Both of my first 2 deer were at 600 yards in western Kansas as a youth with a 30-06. Nothing special, just the terrain and what it demands occasionally. With the luck to have 9,000+ acres of property to hunt on, owned by a single person, in an uninhabited area, I'm not worried about distance and impact unless I plan on hunting with a Tomahawk cruise missile. Not even a 50 BMG shot at the perfect trajectory would come anywhere near going outside the personal property. Hopefully we're all looking at what we're shooting at, but you may be different, and if that applies to you, you're right, you are an idiot for shooting at that distance. Maybe you shouldn't be shooting at all.

 

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I say you're an idiot for making that comment.

There are plenty of folks that have taken big game at long distances. Most of those hunters know the rifles and it's capabilities.

Just because you are not at that skill level doesn't mean you should bash those that have harvested animals at long range.

I know that if you hunt in PNW that you are able to get some long shots. Not every hunting scenario involves taking a shot under 100 yards.

I'd say shooting long range isn't for everyone...be it shooting at paper or at wildlife. There will always be an argument for and against it. I've seen some incredible shots on game at long distances.

I also like how people always complain about cost of ammo. The cost of ammo isn't a huge factor considering most people are reloading. The biggest cost from say shooting 338LM to a 300WM is the cost of the brass. As the best brass for 338LM is Lapua or Norma which will run you about $2.50 per piece of virgin brass. Now, keep in mind you are going to get a lot more loadings from using Lapua or Norma brass then you would from using crappy Hornady 338LM brass.

If you are shooting 338LM with just using factory ammo...you will need some serious disposable income as factory 338LM is expensive. I don't know anyone owning a 338LM that isn't reloading for that caliber.
No, you are the idiot. I am standing by my comment. If you try to take large game for trophy hunting at 800 yards, I think you are an idiot. Before bashing my shooting skills, which you know nothing about, why don't you take a look at the statistics on percent of kill shots in relation to range. The chances of missing the vital zone of an animal grow exponentially as range increases, especially after a few hundred yards. This applies to ALL shooters, even to the late Chris Kyle.

A 30 mph crosswind at 500 yards could throw your bullet off, even your divine .338 lapua, enough to no longer be in the kill zone at 800 yards, especially when coupled with the accuracy of the gun. Surely you know that a one inch group at 100 yards turns into "at BEST" a eight inch group at 800 yards. Wow, that's already half of the kill zone on many large game animals. Do you have wind socks up at 100 yard intervals while you hunt? Didn't think so.

The flight time of the bullet leaves a lot of time for the animal to move.

I will say that a very, very small percentage of hunters actually possess the skills to take an animal cleanly past 300 or so yards in the field. Very small. Idiots like you are who help give responsible hunters a bad name. You sound like that punk at the campfire we all know who brags about taking deer at 700 yards, but misses his shot at 150 yards when it comes.

There are also multiple fallacies in your post that make your argument sound even more absurd. For the sake of time, and my thumbs, I will only address the one where you attempt to disprove my assertion that hunting at 800 yards is dumb by providing a counter example. A simple, rare counter example does not diminish the merit of an argument.

An example: lightning is dangerous. It is probably best to not be struck by lightning. However, some people have survived being struck by lightning.

Does the fact that some people have survived being struck by lightning diminish the danger of it?
 

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That's an interesting perspective? I'm assuming you live in a high population coastal state, but I could be wrong, you may just be ignorant.

Head out to the West and you'll find that shooting 600-800 yards is not uncommon. Both of my first 2 deer were at 600 yards in western Kansas as a youth with a 30-06. Nothing special, just the terrain and what it demands occasionaly. With 12,000 acres of property to hunt on, owned by a single person, I'm not worried about distance and impact point unless we were hunting with Tomahawk cruise missiles. Not even a 50 BMG shot at the perfect trajectory would come anywhere near going outside the personal property.

Nice comic. I like dilbert.

I am neither ignorant in this subject nor inexperienced. I actually do most of my deer hunting in flat plains west Texas where I am from. My last deer was taken at around 300-350 yards. There is a huge difference between 3-400 and 800 or more yards. Like I told the last guy, there are so many variables at that range that most hunters simply cannot make those shots consistently. Please don't dismiss someone who disagrees with your hunting practices as either ignorant or inexperienced.
 

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I doubt anyone buying this rifle is really thinking about using it for hunting whitetail deer. As for overkill, you could say that a .30-06 is overkill for a deer. Or any gun really. This grizzly was killed by my friend's dad Jake Powell, with his own homemade long bow, using his own homemade wooden shaft arrows. Bear ran 20 yards before folding up.








Here's the original post from another forum right after I received the email from my buddy about the big news. I knew I remembered something about 20 yards.


https://www.1911addicts.com/threads/my-buddys-dads-grizzly-bow-kill.7072/
Joe, I think we are treading into the "can vs should" argument now. I've put down a cow with a .22 short. That doesn't make it a good hunting round.
 

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There is a huge difference between 3-400 and 800 or more yards. Like I told the last guy, there are so many variables at that range that most hunters simply cannot make those shots consistently. Please don't dismiss someone who disagrees with your hunting practices as either ignorant or inexperienced.
No argument, each person needs to know their limitations and what is safe for their surroundings. You would have been better off saying, "800+ yards may be beyond the capability of most hunters and therefore not a responsible hunting practice" vs. "Very sweet gun, although I think you're an idiot if you take 800 yard shots at large game." We do not all share the same skill, training or equipment so your statement, which comes off as an absolute, as if you can't be challenged, is what I have issue with. EIC service rifle is 600 yards, with open sights, in prone. Probably beyond the skill of most. I shoot bullseye as well, 50 yards with a pistol off-hand, again, probably beyond the capability of most, but not everyone. With proper training, skill and equipment many difficult things can be done. Do not apply a lack of ability on the part of the many to the few.

Joe, I think we are treading into the "can vs should" argument now. I've put down a cow with a .22 short. That doesn't make it a good hunting round.
Now that's a valid point!
 

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No argument, each person needs to know their limitations and what is safe for their surroundings. You would have been better off saying, "800+ yards may be beyond the capability of most hunters and therefore not be a responsible hunting practice" vs. "Very sweet gun, although I think you're an idiot if you take 800 yard shots at large game." We do not all share the same level of skill, training or equipment so your statement, which comes off as absolute, is what I have issue with. EIC service rifle is 600 yards open sights in prone. Probably beyond the skill of most, I shoot bullseye as well, 50 yards with a pistol off-hand, again, probably beyond the capability of most. With the training, skill and equipment many difficult things can be done. Do not apply a lack of ability on the part of the many to the few.



Now that's a valid point and executed in a way that isn't contentious or condescending!
Ok. I will rephrase it. Taking a shot at big game in a trophy hunt situation at 800 yards is stupid under all but a few instances with only highly skilled hunters.

Hitting man sized targets at 600 yards with a combat rifle is different than hunting. With hunting (non subsistence, of course), we have an obligation to be humane and quick, which usually entails making the first shot count.

I did not mean to be so absolute, but it is very rarely a good idea.
 

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It didn't take long for this thread to go to hell. I love it when y'all talk nasty to each other. :))


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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It didn't take long for this thread to go to hell. I love it when y'all talk nasty to each other. :))


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well, I made a general comment about idiocy, and some guy directly called me an idiot, so I called him one back, as the rules of the Internet dictate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Bottom line, (and maybe this will make everyone happier), anyone who just buys a high power/long range rifle and takes it out to harvest a big game animal, without the proper skills, IS and idiot. Those of us, who have long range rifles and know how and when to use them, to achieve their capabilities, need NOT be called anything except for good shots. And even then, we don't always hit our target. But there's a way better chance from those that practice at long range vs. those that just buy and "shoot".


BTW, I own several long range guns and have a pretty decent track record using them. But, it wasn't a cheap "education". ;)
 
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