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Discussion Starter #1
I'm 52 and was raised around firearms. I got my first shotgun at 9, deer rifle at 10 and handgun about 15. So I'm not a " New gun guy". I am however new to the AR platform.

I've shot other people's before but I never owned one until now. It took stripping it down and cleaning it, a trip to the range to zero the optic and run 220 rounds through it and then stripping it down to clean it again and I feel like I'm comfortable enough with the design to keep it running.

I have been lurking on some forums and some AR pages on FB, mostly trying to glean info on specific accessories ( Optics, sling mounts, etc.) and I noticed that there are what appears to me to be an enormous amount of snobs and straight up d-bags in these groups ( I am not talking about this place, really it's mostly the FB AR group pages). Besides the fact that a lot of these guys put so much crap on these rifles that they look like something out of a Defenders of the Galaxy movie, there seems to be a bunch of guys who say that anything other than the stuff they use is garbage, not suitable for self defense, etc.. Bushmasters are junk, Rugers are junk, PSA is junk, Colt is junk, blah, blah, blah. If you spent less than 2k then you've wasted your money.

Now to be sure I have no doubt there are shoddily made ARs out there and I have no doubt some of the higher end models are better made, higher quality rifles. But it seems to me the platform is fairly straightforward and if you have one that runs, then you have one that runs. I would guess that most of the ones that don't run right are ones that people bought in pieces and " Built" themselves.

Someone on a FB page asked if they should buy this specific AR. It just so happens that is the AR I own. It's a new model by a company that recently was sold off in a bankruptcy court and had previously had some problems, mostly with customer service. As far as I can find on the internet, no one has bought one and reviewed it because I researched it pretty thoroughly before I bought it. Anyway, at least 15 guys chimed in that it was junk, save your money, build your own, blah, blah, blah. I guarantee none of those guys ever seen one in person and have zero clue about what parts are in it because the website and any other info you can find online doesn't specify what parts are in it. The model in question is an Adams Arms. Voodoo Innovations Witch Doctor. It has an Anderson lower, an M16 full auto BCG, a GI trigger and yes the castle nut is staked. I have no idea if AA made the barrel or what, but it shoots accurately and reliably. Zero malfunctions and zero flyers after 200 plus rounds of 62. gr. Green tips and a mag of some Tulammo 55 gr. steel. I paid $750 for it, which seems a fair enough price.

I didn't buy an AR to deck it out with a $1500 Acog and offset mounted red dot or a $900 dot with a magnifier and a $300 weapon light or a device that makes toast for me while I'm shooting steel targets at 600 yards. I just wanted a rifle that shoots accurately, doesn't jam or misfire and is light and easy to maneuver. I put a Romeo 5 on it because I already know that even though it's a " Cheap, shitty" optic, it works and stays zero'ed. I have one on a KSG25 and I've put 1000 plus rounds through it and the Romeo has not disappointed me. I'm putting a Magpul QD swivel and a Blue Force Gear Vickers on it along with some Magpul MBUIS and calling it a day. I'm pretty confident it will run when I need it to, regardless if that makes me a "Poor" and that I'm handicapped by the absence of $2500 worth of other **** on my $800 gun. I may get a nicer one eventually. I mean these things are fun as hell to shoot and you know, being a guy and all I have that urge to blow **** tons of cash on just about every hobby I dip my little toe in, but for now I just want a no frills rifle that does it's job and that I don't feel bad tossing behind the seat of my truck.
 

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People get lost in the stuff. It ether runs or it doesn’t. It’s accurate or it’s not. It suits the needs for your specific need or it doesn’t.

At the end of the day it’s a tool, and it doesn’t take a gas powered Miller rig to lay a bead.
 

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Rule #1, it is your AR-15. Do what you want with it.

I was around this platform a lot in the military.

These are some journeyman items to have:

Good bore brush

Good chamber brush

A bottle of LSA to keep it lubed (Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Rothco G.I. LSA Weapons Oil)

Some AR-15 Maintenance Tools (pick one that fits your budget). Before these tools existed, I used a Swiss Army Knife. Most of these are used by military M-4/M-16 users. They sell them at most PXs.

 

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Discussion Starter #4
Rule #1, it is your AR-15. Do what you want with it.

I was around this platform a lot in the military.

These are some journeyman items to have:

Good bore brush

Good chamber brush

A bottle of LSA to keep it lubed (Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Rothco G.I. LSA Weapons Oil)

Some AR-15 Maintenance Tools (pick one that fits your budget). Before these tools existed, I used a Swiss Army Knife. Most of these are used by military M-4/M-16 users. They sell them at most PXs.


Thank you. I have an AR specific cleaning kit, but I will look into the multi tool and LSA.

What is your opinion of using CLP to clean the gun? I hear mixed opinions.
 

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If the gun you bought does the job you bought it to do, why care what people on bookface say?

When new people to AR's ask me what to buy, the first thing I ask is what do you want it to do?
Many say "home defense" for that I tell them to look at "Radical Firearms", they sell complete rifles for $500.00.
Now those rifle are not making 3" groups at 500 yards but that isn't what the bought it for either.

My preference currently is BCM, but a year and a half ago I was shooting LMT rifles, needs change.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If the gun you bought does the job you bought it to do, why care what people on bookface say?

When new people to AR's ask me what to buy, the first thing I ask is what do you want it to do?
Many say "home defense" for that I tell them to look at "Radical Firearms", they sell complete rifles for $500.00.
Now those rifle are not making 3" groups at 500 yards but that isn't what the bought it for either.

My preference currently is BCM, but a year and a half ago I was shooting LMT rifles, needs change.

Oh I don't care at all. I'm certainly not new to retarded internet fan bois and I am immune to their psycho babble. I was just pointing out that the AR world seems to be about 5 times more full of these people than other firearms. Or guitars. Or cars. Or literally everything else on the planet. :)
 

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First of all, you've got a quality gun. The Voodoo Innovations line of stuff from Adams are exceptional in my experience. With pretty good certainty, they built a gun with inexpensive parts where they are less important, and put good stuff in where it matters. The barrel is likely one Voodoo's 1:7 5.56 NATO barrels (I'm not sure if it's a nitrided one or a parkerized one) and probably one of their sweet lifecoated one-piece bolt carrier groups. Is it top of the line? No. Does it run well? Damn right it does.

Your observation is pretty spot on. There are lots of snobs out there that seem to think that only the stuff they like is good, when really it's all up to usage and needs. If the gun runs and suits its intended purpose and needs, that's a winner. Are there garbage guns out there? Yes, but you didn't get one. The snobs will say otherwise, but it's often them justifying to themselves that the money they spent on expensive gear gives them some kind of elevated status. The hard part is trying to find a group of grounded people to ask AR questions that won't feed you biased or incorrect information. When people come into my store and ask me about ARs, I tell them the truth without trying to sell them anything in particular. I let them decide based on their budget and needs. If they are looking at a cheap company, I tell them what the potential drawbacks are and what to look out for to avoid getting a lemon. Very seldom do I legit crap on a gun...

Except the Kel-Tec CP33, which isn't an AR. That gun is a dumpster fire and I tell everyone about it.

ANYWAY, getting familiar with the components, fully stripping, and thoroughly cleaning the gun means you are going in the right direction. I think you've got a long life ahead of you with that Witch Doctor and I'm fairly certain that if you love it, it will love you back.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
First of all, you've got a quality gun. The Voodoo Innovations line of stuff from Adams are exceptional in my experience. With pretty good certainty, they built a gun with inexpensive parts where they are less important, and put good stuff in where it matters. The barrel is likely one Voodoo's 1:7 5.56 NATO barrels (I'm not sure if it's a nitrided one or a parkerized one) and probably one of their sweet lifecoated one-piece bolt carrier groups. Is it top of the line? No. Does it run well? Damn right it does.

Your observation is pretty spot on. There are lots of snobs out there that seem to think that only the stuff they like is good, when really it's all up to usage and needs. If the gun runs and suits its intended purpose and needs, that's a winner. Are there garbage guns out there? Yes, but you didn't get one. The snobs will say otherwise, but it's often them justifying to themselves that the money they spent on expensive gear gives them some kind of elevated status. The hard part is trying to find a group of grounded people to ask AR questions that won't feed you biased or incorrect information. When people come into my store and ask me about ARs, I tell them the truth without trying to sell them anything in particular. I let them decide based on their budget and needs. If they are looking at a cheap company, I tell them what the potential drawbacks are and what to look out for to avoid getting a lemon. Very seldom do I legit crap on a gun...

Except the Kel-Tec CP33, which isn't an AR. That gun is a dumpster fire and I tell everyone about it.

ANYWAY, getting familiar with the components, fully stripping, and thoroughly cleaning the gun means you are going in the right direction. I think you've got a long life ahead of you with that Witch Doctor and I'm fairly certain that if you love it, it will love you back.

It is a parkerized M4 barrel 1:7 twist 5.56. Granted I am perhaps not the best judge of what a quality AR looks like, but I can't find anything I don't like about it.

Man KelTec catches some serious crap and they also have their hardcore fan boys. I took a chance on a KSG25 last year, which I got at a good price. I've put over 1000 rounds through it now with none of the problems other people seem to bitch about with them. I short stroked it the very first time I shot it, other than that it has been flawless. Nevertheless KelTec doesn't have any other offerings that ever tempted me. Their handguns are ugly as hell and their AR type firearms were never even a consideration.

Ironically, when I decided I needed an AR I looked around at all my local gun stores ( I almost bought a Springfield Saint pistol but it was 300BLK and I wanted 5.56) and everywhere I could online. I very nearly spent $1900 on a Giessele, mainly because it was about the only thing in stock at the time. I'm glad I didn't. You know that 2k would have turned into 3k because I would have felt the need to drop a grand on an optic. I took the extra money I didn't spend on it and bought an HK pistol. So yay me. :)
 

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Not sure about the Voodoo part, but Adams Arms made some good gear, and Anderson is nothing to complain at all about either..... as you say, your rifle runs for you and that is the important thing.

There are a few off-brands that I've never heard of that may or may not run well. PSA makes a good product for a good price. Is it on the same level as a BCM or LMT or similar? Maybe not, but it will put holes where you need them to as long as you do your part.

I bought what at the time was an "Off Brand" and many still haven't heard of it..... (GTO - Core15).... and when I put it up against almost anything else, I am not disappointed. I have modified it a bit, (it's now a piston gun), but it does a great job for me with zero failures that weren't caused by me monkeying around with it. I trust it to protect my family and myself out as far as I can shoot it. (THAT is a whole different topic which has nothing to do with the gun).

Enjoy your AR...... blow off the snobs, since as was posted earlier, they most likely never put their mitts on one. Welcome to the AR family.
 
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Not sure about the Voodoo part, but Adams Arms made some good gear, and Anderson is nothing to complain at all about either..... as you say, your rifle runs for you and that is the important thing.

There are a few off-brands that I've never heard of that may or may not run well. PSA makes a good product for a good price. Is it on the same level as a BCM or LMT or similar? Maybe not, but it will put holes where you need them to as long as you do your part.

I bought what at the time was an "Off Brand" and many still haven't heard of it..... (GTO - Core15).... and when I put it up against almost anything else, I am not disappointed. I have modified it a bit, (it's now a piston gun), but it does a great job for me with zero failures that weren't caused by me monkeying around with it. I trust it to protect my family and myself out as far as I can shoot it. (THAT is a whole different topic which has nothing to do with the gun).

Enjoy your AR...... blow off the snobs, since as was posted earlier, they most likely never put their mitts on one. Welcome to the AR family.

Thanks brother. I read this subforum a few times before I jumped in. I want to reiterate that I didn't get that feeling here. If I was guessing I'd say the same people on FB and other places talking **** like that are the ones in their mom's basement talking about the Boujihidean, Boogie boys or whatever the F their going on about. Here's an example. Someone posts a picture of the kid in Kenosha and asks what kind of sling he's using. It almost instantly devolves into a conversation about what a crappy set up he had and what a dumbass he was for using a $500 rifle with a crappy sling. Until someone ( might have been me) pointed out that while this 17 year old kid went out to defend his city and successfully survived a combat situation without killing any innocent bystanders using a shitty rifle with a shitty sling, all of them were busy on FB talking about how much your rig sucks if you don't have an Aimpoint and a Bravo Company BCG. Then it was crickets. Don't get me wrong, I think the kid going there like that was probably stupid and I'm not really condoning it, but the kid has more balls than any one of those boogaloo boys. And there is little doubt he has done a fair amount of training. I hope the charges are dropped against him.
 

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I have a Smith & Wesson M&P 15. Probably considered to be on of the cheap, basic platforms? I don't care. It didn't cost me a lot, but I hit what I aim at, It os problem free (after the gas block was adjusted) and it's fun to shoot. I'm good with that!
 

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"I noticed that there are what appears to me to be an enormous amount of snobs and straight up d-bags in these groups"

Your just going to have that sort of thing with any topic, be it chainsaws, p/u trucks, weapons, muscle cars, etc.

Makes you wished these websites had a Troll "filter"built into them for sure.

Anyhow, what really matters here is that you like the platform and it runs 100 percent dead solid reliable. At nearly any level the AR-15's currently being sold or built from parts will be fine. I find Anderson lowers to be a great starting point at the lower price points and have had zero issues with them. Being retired Military, Small Arms Instructor and Armorer for 20 years all I can tell you is that the direct impingement system works fine if you keep it clean and lubricated. My experiences also including shooting on rifle and pistol teams back in the 1980's so I've put more rounds down range than most who will read this.

For my own personal AR's I insist on chrome lined Mil-Spec barrels. Not a must but at least I can throw them in the gun safe after any outing and they can sit for weeks or months before I get around to cleaning them w/o any rust forming inside the barrel or chamber.........Cliff
 

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My Windham has been reliable and it shoots the commy 7.62x39.
However a different upper and viola 5.56/.223 or 300 bo as the receiver/mag well is standard AR.

But I have no interest in a 556/223 upper bought the one I wanted.

People give funny looks when they hear it vs a 556 version for sure.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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This thread reminds me a lot of my thread from just a few weeks ago. (Basic AR's vs Premium AR's if you wanna read.)

I have a Bushmaster and it's been fine other than my missed maintenance schedules. Nothing bad about the rifle in particular. It works fine, I just wanted something more fancy. To each their own.
 

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yer rifle is plenty good enuf to stack bodies of much gucci'er gun owners come pockyclips time. the real decider in fights is mindset and training. take yer extra gun budget and go run some fighting rifle classes. much better use of cash imo.
 

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id also add if you want a great expensive build around st louis area id look up sam andrews at tier one weapons if hes still taking orders.
 

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OP, lose facebook. It's mostly a waste of time.

It doesn't have to be the most expensive rifle or part on the rifle to make a good rifle. It does take someone who knows how to use one well to get the best out of it.

You're cleaning it and lubing it, that's good. Never become one of those guys that brags about how many hundred, or thousand rounds you run through it before you clean/lube it.

You need some good magazines.

You need to be able to clean/lube it.

I like optics (scopes better than red dots but I have some red dots). Scopes have some advantages for me. I can adjust them so I can shoot even if I lose my glasses off my face. I can identify targets farther out away from me. I can see better in low light conditions (with the right scope - not talking night vision here, some scope are amazing and allow shooting when you can no longer use iron sights.)

I like to have back up sights on my rifles.

I like to have a sling on my rifles. Nothing fancy, just a GI style web sling. I can use it to help me shoot it more accurately, carry it if I don't need it in my hands.

Ammo. Find out what is reliable and accurate that you can afford to build up some inventory with.

Spare parts. That's a tough one. Some people carry a spare bolt (not the carrier, just the bolt), some carry a spare firing pin, spare pins, spare extractor, etc.

I put free float tubes on most of mine but I have two or three with regular handguards and they do alright, too.

I used to be an Appleseed instructor, years ago. I can't tell you how many times I saw people get out on the firing line with a $2000 rifle, a $1500 scope and match ammo only to have some guy (sometimes a kid) outshoot them at the 25 meter line on the reduced sized targets we used. Most people can't use the equipment they buy and would be better off spending that extra money on ammo and good instruction/practice.

Good luck with it, they can be addicting. I think (on arfcom) they call it BRD. Black Rifle Disease.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
This thread reminds me a lot of my thread from just a few weeks ago. (Basic AR's vs Premium AR's if you wanna read.)

I have a Bushmaster and it's been fine other than my missed maintenance schedules. Nothing bad about the rifle in particular. It works fine, I just wanted something more fancy. To each their own.
Don't get me wrong my friend. I would never berate anyone for having too nice of a rifle ( or anything for that matter). At some point in the not too distant future I guarantee I have a nice one myself. My point was people who routinely use words like " Pours" and tell other people their rifles are junk are douchebags. I didn't buy an entry level rifle because I couldn't afford a top shelf rifle. I almost guarantee I can afford it much more easily than most of those queers. ( Did I say that out loud, I meant to just think it ? ) I bought it because I was unfamiliar with the platform, I wanted one that would run straight out of the box and I wanted to know everything about them before I decided if ( when really) I wanted to start down the rabbit hole of putting some together for myself. I see a couple grand worth of rifle/parts and a $1000 plus optic in my future believe me. It won't be happening on this one though. It's meant to be a working class rifle. If I kill that Romeo 5 somehow I may upgrade to a more abusable sight, but other than some minimal Magpul necessities this one is staying low rent. It won't get a light or a vert grip or a toast making machine. Just some back up sights, a solid set of sling mounts and a sturdy, quick adjust 2 point sling and done.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
OP, lose facebook. It's mostly a waste of time.

It doesn't have to be the most expensive rifle or part on the rifle to make a good rifle. It does take someone who knows how to use one well to get the best out of it.

You're cleaning it and lubing it, that's good. Never become one of those guys that brags about how many hundred, or thousand rounds you run through it before you clean/lube it.

You need some good magazines.

You need to be able to clean/lube it.

I like optics (scopes better than red dots but I have some red dots). Scopes have some advantages for me. I can adjust them so I can shoot even if I lose my glasses off my face. I can identify targets farther out away from me. I can see better in low light conditions (with the right scope - not talking night vision here, some scope are amazing and allow shooting when you can no longer use iron sights.)

I like to have back up sights on my rifles.

I like to have a sling on my rifles. Nothing fancy, just a GI style web sling. I can use it to help me shoot it more accurately, carry it if I don't need it in my hands.

Ammo. Find out what is reliable and accurate that you can afford to build up some inventory with.

Spare parts. That's a tough one. Some people carry a spare bolt (not the carrier, just the bolt), some carry a spare firing pin, spare pins, spare extractor, etc.

I put free float tubes on most of mine but I have two or three with regular handguards and they do alright, too.

I used to be an Appleseed instructor, years ago. I can't tell you how many times I saw people get out on the firing line with a $2000 rifle, a $1500 scope and match ammo only to have some guy (sometimes a kid) outshoot them at the 25 meter line on the reduced sized targets we used. Most people can't use the equipment they buy and would be better off spending that extra money on ammo and good instruction/practice.

Good luck with it, they can be addicting. I think (on arfcom) they call it BRD. Black Rifle Disease.

I have 6 Amend 2 mags which so far all of which work perfectly. I also have a half a dozen P mags and some Israeli GI mags coming. I have a Vickers, but I also bought a Magpul ( MS1) I want to try out.

The purpose of this rifle doesn't warrant a scope or dealing with eye relief. That will be a rifle for future Bob. I like the red dots with 1x magnification. I have some back up sights on the way. They will co-witness with the red dot.

I fully intend to get a bad ass BCG as a spare.

I started with half a case of the 62 gr. green tips which I like, but I have 1000 rds. of 55 gr. brass cased ammo coming from a buddy of mine. Much cheaper than the 62 gr. ( X855, something like that. Lake City) I like that stuff though and will probably stock up on it as I run across decent deals on it.

I'm good to go on lube. I think I got it figured out which parts need it ( I watched some videos and plan on just lubing the stuff that needs to be lubed, ala the guy who keeps posting the AR torture test/reliability videos. Bolt carrier rails, cam pin, gas rings, springs and hammer, minimal oil on everything else.

I already train with some military, ex military and LEO buddies of mine, but I've always been much more focused on shotguns and handguns. Time to learn some new **** though.
 

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"It doesn't have to be the most expensive rifle or part on the rifle to make a good rifle. It does take someone who knows how to use one well to get the best out of it"

One thing folks need to remember with this sort of thing.......more times than not the weapon shoots better than the guy holding it.

Some folks do OK from a solid rest, but when you stand up and fire off-hand, even the most experienced shooters don't put most or all of the round in the same hole at any distance. I shot High Power matches when I was in the Military and to this day EVERYONE on our hunting party has me sight in their rifles for them. Once I get them dialed in they take over and practice some. The skills I learned over the years still serve me well nearly 2 decades now after I retired.

With the AR Platform first and foremost it MUST "run", and be dead-solid reliable with the ammo and mags you are using in it. Beyond that the cost, or options you add really don't matter.

I have at least a dozen AR platforms in various calibers and configurations. Only two of them have things done to them to make them tach-drivers as I use them for Varmint hunting. All the others are built from upper end/top shelf and Mil-Spec components, and all but one has a chrome lined barrel (wanted to try out one of PSA's "low end" complete uppers). Best news I can put up here is that I've only had one that wouldn't run and it was sent back to PSA because they didn't get the gas block lined up with the hole in the barrel. If you ever want to know how good their customer service is have a problem. They paid for shipping both ways, corrected the issues with it, and had it back here before I could reach around and scratch my backside!.........
 
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