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Discussion Starter #1
I’ve been shooting for over 40 years. I’ve been casting my own bullets and reloading for the better part of 35 years.

I’m loading a hard cast Lee 175gr SWC over 10.5gr of Blue Dot.

At 30 yards, shooting from a bench, I seem to be shooting about 6” low.

I won’t for a second say that it’s not me, as I know most shooting problems are operator error.

I haven’t shot much more than 20 rounds, feeling that I was just wasting time and ammo, without at least asking a few questions.

Has anyone else had this issue? My Ruger GP100 and my CZ Shadow 2 are spot on. Help?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
To the best of my 60 year old yes ability, yes.

A did also shoot 10 rounds standing at about 30 feet with relatively the same effect.
 

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You know, now rethinking, I can’t say for sure. I just line up and shoot, but thinking back, I used to load down a .357 for squirrel hunting, and I always shot with the sights lined up just below the eyes.

After shooting for this long, it just becomes instinct, I don’t think much about it.
 

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You know, now rethinking, I can’t say for sure. I just line up and shoot, but thinking back, I used to load down a .357 for squirrel hunting, and I always shot with the sights lined up just below the eyes.

After shooting for this long, it just becomes instinct, I don’t think much about it.
I’d try it again, making sure of your hold next time.
 

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At 30 yards, shooting from a bench, I seem to be shooting about 6” low.
You’re using a “combat hold”? That is, the dot on the front sight covers the “bullseye”?
To the best of my 60 year old yes ability, yes.
^ That may be why....

From the factory, XDms are supposed to be regulated as-follows:




Some Owner's Manuals may read instead:



Check your Manual to see what yours is supposed to be.

^ But that said, depending on ammo variability, the sights on your particular gun (i.e. the unique weapon that's in YOUR hands, not someone else's 10mm XDm 4.5), as well as how your eyes "see" the sights (which can even be affected by lighting), you may need to play with these factors a bit, to determine the hold you will need to use and/or what you may need to do in order to remediate the POA/POI difference towards your preference.

Hope this helps!
 

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^ Production variances accounts for some of this. How that overlays with the ammo any one of us may choose to use is yet another.

Also, just how different folks "see."

None of our eyes/brain work in exactly the same way - what any one of us perceive to be one thing can be quite different for another.

This is why shooters who are looking for that level of performance really need to go out there and benchmark this POA/POI for themselves (and remediate via hardware modifications, if-necessary), and furthermore be cognizant that both ammo and even lighting can make for noticeable and reproducible differences.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
^ That may be why....

From the factory, XDms are supposed to be regulated as-follows:




Some Owner's Manuals may read instead:



Check your Manual to see what yours is supposed to be.

^ But that said, depending on ammo variability, the sights on your particular gun (i.e. the unique weapon that's in YOUR hands, not someone else's 10mm XDm 4.5), as well as how your eyes "see" the sights (which can even be affected by lighting), you may need to play with these factors a bit, to determine the hold you will need to use and/or what you may need to do in order to remediate the POA/POI difference towards your preference.

Hope this helps!
Well, my manual is as the top one is written, which, to me, is as clear as mud.

The included 10 meter target shows what the gun is capable of, but I have no idea what the technique might have been.

I’ll figure this out, I’m certain, but I do find this a little frustrating. I have a fixed sight 3” GP100, a S&W 9mm Sheild, and a CZ Shadow 2 that are as simple as salt, point and click guns. Why this one shoots any differently would be beyond me.

That said, I do intend to run a full box though the rig before I even consider any changes. If the problem still exists, I’ll tear it down, clean it up, snap it all back together and try again. If it’s still a problem after that, I’ll call Springfield.
 

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I had an xds like that. To hit dead nuts I had to have the entire front sight sitting above the rear two. Strange looking down the gun that way, you can see the whole slide.

Whether it was me or the firearm doesn’t matter to me, I got rid of it. I have plenty of other point and shoot guns, not going to hold any differently for 1 out of the whole lot.
 

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Well, my manual is as the top one is written, which, to me, is as clear as mud.
.

To me, the way I read it, the round should print right at edge of the top flat of the front blade, with the top plane of the blade bisecting the hole horizontally.

Oh, and just to be complete, remember that you're aligning the sight bodies, not the dots or other such markings. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
.

To me, the way I read it, the round should print right at edge of the top flat of the front blade, with the top plane of the blade bisecting the hole horizontally.

Oh, and just to be complete, remember that you're aligning the sight bodies, not the dots or other such markings. :)
That’s a good point. I’ll check that on the next outing. That makes a good case for standard, boring, iron sights.
 

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^ I have a tendency to misalign factory "ball in the basket" Glock sights because of their markings. :oops::p

I know, I know - even after all these years of "align the body of the sights and press the trigger," it's still something that I struggle with the first time I reach for any Glock with that factory setup.
 

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Have you tried any other ammo to see if it also hits low?

Ammunition can make a difference especially with handguns.

Your grip and what you do after the shot also effects how low, or high rounds will hit.

Bullets that are light and/or loaded to higher velocity tend to hit low as they leave the barrel sooner before recoil has the barrel headed upward. I shot competitively for many years and have done a LOT of long range hand gunning with 357 and 44 magnums. I "worked" up loads for each weapon that I ended up keeping in the arsenal for that sort of thing and found out early on that slower loads tend to hit high and really fast loads hit low.

Probably doesn't help that I do NOT fight the recoil, "anticipate" shots, or disturb the weapon in any way when it goes off. I used to chuckle at times when shooting with friends when I handed them my 44 magnum with 285 grain bullets backed by a full charge of 2400. They would almost always hit much lower than I did simply because they were fighting the recoil and anticipating the shot.

Not saying that's what's going on here but the things I mentioned are players in that deal when it comes to shooting handguns........
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Have you tried any other ammo to see if it also hits low?

Ammunition can make a difference especially with handguns.

Your grip and what you do after the shot also effects how low, or high rounds will hit.

Bullets that are light and/or loaded to higher velocity tend to hit low as they leave the barrel sooner before recoil has the barrel headed upward. I shot competitively for many years and have done a LOT of long range hand gunning with 357 and 44 magnums. I "worked" up loads for each weapon that I ended up keeping in the arsenal for that sort of thing and found out early on that slower loads tend to hit high and really fast loads hit low.

Probably doesn't help that I do NOT fight the recoil, "anticipate" shots, or disturb the weapon in any way when it goes off. I used to chuckle at times when shooting with friends when I handed them my 44 magnum with 285 grain bullets backed by a full charge of 2400. They would almost always hit much lower than I did simply because they were fighting the recoil and anticipating the shot.

Not saying that's what's going on here but the things I mentioned are players in that deal when it comes to shooting handguns........
well, I’m not going to say you’re wrong, but I have been at this for a very, very long time, and the other handguns in my arsenal aren’t misbehaving like this.

However, I’m trying to keep an open mind, and I will take tryout advice, along with all the rest, under advisement.

One thing that occurred to me today is not just my reloads, but specifically my bullets. After I’m done with any given casting sessions, I do my best to cull out poorly cast bullets, but that’s not to say that a few don’t make it through that might have a wrinkle or a dimpled base. I’ll be giving those a little closer look before I load those up as well.

As far as my recipe goes, 10.5 grains of Blue Dot under a 175 grain cast semiwadcutter is said to be a pretty good load over at castboolits.com. I’ll just have to play around a little, maybe shooting a box of factory loaded stuff first.
 

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So the answer is "no" you haven't tried any other ammo to see if it prints higher or lower?

I'd try that first. At least it will point you in the right direction.

I remember WAY back in the 1980's when I was trying to find a 44 magnum pistol that was suitable for long range shooting and working up loads for it. A good friend handed me a box of really heavy SWC cast bullets to experiment with. Not sure who made them but they were just over 300 grains. I loaded up a few pretty close to max specs and they printed considerably higher at 25 yards than my hard cast Elmer Keith style SWC's that were moving a bit faster. The only thing I could figure is that the slower bullets combined with heavier recoil had them exiting the barrel late enough that recoil had elevated the barrel ever so slightly before the bullets exited.

That was my first experience with that sort of thing, at least dramatically enough that I started paying attention to it.

The second time I ran into it is with my 686 switching from heavily loaded SWC cast bullets to "plinking" 38 rounds pushed with a small charge of Bullseye. They hit a LOT higher with the same point of aim than the much faster loads.

As far as "credentials" I was a small arms instructor for 20 years in the Military, qualified armorer on the M-9 pistol, 870 riot shotgun, M-16/M-4 platforms, and shot on rifle and pistol teams while in the Military for a number of years. I'm still pretty active with shooting but don't compete these days.

I carry every day as I'm still working (CSI) and moved to the XD pistols recently when I ran into issues with another brand of 45ACP no being reliable. Turns out there is really nothing fundamentally wrong with the other 45 that I purchased. It even made a trip back to the factory for a complete rebuild and it still jams when I fire it. Turns out it's nothing more than me holding it too loosely and not fighting the recoil or anticipating the shot.

Probably a topic for someplace else but I will say that I'm very pleased with my XDS-45 in terms of accuracy and it's been 100 percent reliable with anything I've ran thru it to date. I even worked up a load to mimic the 10mm pushing a 185 grain bullet to just over 1100fps and it gobbles those up as well without an grumbling........
 

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So the answer is "no" you haven't tried any other ammo to see if it prints higher or lower?

I'd try that first. At least it will point you in the right direction.

I remember WAY back in the 1980's when I was trying to find a 44 magnum pistol that was suitable for long range shooting and working up loads for it. A good friend handed me a box of really heavy SWC cast bullets to experiment with. Not sure who made them but they were just over 300 grains. I loaded up a few pretty close to max specs and they printed considerably higher at 25 yards than my hard cast Elmer Keith style SWC's that were moving a bit faster. The only thing I could figure is that the slower bullets combined with heavier recoil had them exiting the barrel late enough that recoil had elevated the barrel ever so slightly before the bullets exited.

That was my first experience with that sort of thing, at least dramatically enough that I started paying attention to it.

The second time I ran into it is with my 686 switching from heavily loaded SWC cast bullets to "plinking" 38 rounds pushed with a small charge of Bullseye. They hit a LOT higher with the same point of aim than the much faster loads.

As far as "credentials" I was a small arms instructor for 20 years in the Military, qualified armorer on the M-9 pistol, 870 riot shotgun, M-16/M-4 platforms, and shot on rifle and pistol teams while in the Military for a number of years. I'm still pretty active with shooting but don't compete these days.

I carry every day as I'm still working (CSI) and moved to the XD pistols recently when I ran into issues with another brand of 45ACP no being reliable. Turns out there is really nothing fundamentally wrong with the other 45 that I purchased. It even made a trip back to the factory for a complete rebuild and it still jams when I fire it. Turns out it's nothing more than me holding it too loosely and not fighting the recoil or anticipating the shot.

Probably a topic for someplace else but I will say that I'm very pleased with my XDS-45 in terms of accuracy and it's been 100 percent reliable with anything I've ran thru it to date. I even worked up a load to mimic the 10mm pushing a 185 grain bullet to just over 1100fps and it gobbles those up as well without an grumbling........
Its not that the muzzle climbs before bullet leaves...thats not it. The lighter loads go slower. The sight plane is flat. Each bullet is arcing. Most likely they are both still arcing upward above bore line to target. The slower one has more time before impact to arc up. The faster one would likely hit higher as well if given same flight time before impact. Shorter time lower impact with the faster traveler.
 

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Six inches at 30 yards is Allot to be just bullet weight/speed. Are all your shots in a decent group in the same area? Bad bullets will give you flyers, not necessarily low shots. I’ve shot some pretty crappy looking bullets that shot good. The factory should have noticed during the test firing, but what is your front sight height? Just measure from the top of the site to the top of the slide and post it here. I don’t have the 4.5” but on my 5.25 it is .220. If someone can do the same on a 4.5” then you can either rule that out or have a solution.
 

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chrono the loads to make sure they are where they should be. slower rounds or lower recoil in the 10 prints low.
the 40sw and 10mm need to have high pressure to work correctly.
What powder are you using as well? a slower magnum powder? those especially need higher pressure to ignite correctly.
I dont know what the rear sight of the XDM is, but I assume it is not adjustable. so either adjustable sights or higher pressure rounds
 
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