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Okay, I'll get a bit of flack for this one, i.e. "You're crazy!" But that's okay. Won't be the first or last time.

Let me describe and illustrate my dream pocket pistol, beginning with the "illustrate" part:



Based on the XDS (or even an actual XDS), this one is:

An inch shorter in length.
About an inch shorter in height.
.45 Caliber.
Still striker fired and has the grip safety.
If possible, maybe a tad thinner than the XDS. Every little bit helps.
4+1 capacity.

You read that right. I know that the trend these days is more and more rounds, but that comes at the cost of concealment and .45 is a big round. When comparing some of the pistols on Handgun Hero, I can't believe some of these guns even have pocket holsters available because of their size. The Kahr PM40 is decent in this regard, but .45 is my round, so....

It's usually the grip that costs so much in concealment, not the length. So imagine having five rounds of .45 ACP in a comfortable and well-hidden package. You could also carry maybe a 7-round spare mag or two, and besides, if it goes as far as reloading, concealment is no longer a concern.

This would NOT be a fun range gun. No, it's designed to save your life in a pinch. Period. And yes, I know you won't get world-class expansion from such a short barrel. I also know that the grip will be limiting. But the point is that it's a true .45 pocket pistol. Hey, derringers sell, so why wouldn't this?

What do you think?
 

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That pistol would be uncontrollable. Additionally, as I said in the other forum where you posted this—that pistol would be unimportable. Not enough points.

Just get a Doubletap—two if you want four shots,
 

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A standby and proven round (357:Magnum) is hard to beat.

Ruger SP101 with a 2-1/4 barrel not in this holster. View attachment 757771
Agreed.

A S&W 640 or 340 with 5 shots of .357 would beat 4 shots of .45, imho...and I’m a .45 fan.

But that small of a semiauto, with that little grip, that so little weight reciprocating in the slide...follow ups will be slow AF, unless you’re just going full spray & pray. And with only four shots, it’s a lot more pray, and very little spray.
 

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I would worry about having a proper grip to make the shots. If your hand is covered in blood/sweat, you may only get one shot due to the recoil and small grip.
 

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I believe a tiny micro gun has it place, such as a 911 LCP ll, or SW body guard and if funds permit most people should have one on them for those few times a year that your clothing can't conceal anything else or if you like one for a back up on your ankle and such. I do have 2 of these guns for those unusual moments.

However, I do believe that capacity plays a critical part for the majority of EDC. For me capacity meaning 10 or more rounds, with 13 to 15 as ideal.

That's why Hellcat and P365 shine for small, accurate, concealability, and capacity.

I read an article not long ago which makes sense and something to think about which suggested capacity should play a large part of EDC because while at the gun range 95 to 100% of your shots will land in the critical kill part of the body,,, however the article said when in a real life threatening situation only 1 of every 3 shots will land in that critical kill zone for most people (not all) because of your stress AND most likely some sort of movement or slight turning of the body from the bad person.

Having 4, or 5 rounds and maybe even 6 is defenately better than having nothing however should be the exception rather than the rule.
 

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I believe a tiny micro gun has it place, such as a 911 LCP ll, or SW body guard and if funds permit most people should have one on them for those few times a year that your clothing can't conceal anything else or if you like one for a back up on your ankle and such. I do have 2 of these guns for those unusual moments.

However, I do believe that capacity plays a critical part for the majority of EDC. For me capacity meaning 10 or more rounds, with 13 to 15 as ideal.

That's why Hellcat and P365 shine for small, accurate, concealability, and capacity.

I read an article not long ago which makes sense and something to think about which suggested capacity should play a large part of EDC because while at the gun range 95 to 100% of your shots will land in the critical kill part of the body,,, however the article said when in a real life threatening situation only 1 of every 3 shots will land in that critical kill zone for most people (not all) because of your stress AND most likely some sort of movement or slight turning of the body from the bad person.

Having 4, or 5 rounds and maybe even 6 is defenately better than having nothing however should be the exception rather than the rule.
At the same time, the average non-LE defensive shooting is 1.7(iirc...it was under 2) rounds fired. That’s not even hits...just rounds fired.

I carry 5 shots all the time. Not worried about being undergunned in the slightest.

And remember, it doesn’t matter if your assailant is alive...just that they stop; a hit in the arm, or a non-physically debilitating torso shot that makes your attacker cease whatever he was doing that made it necessary to shoot him is a perfectly acceptable outcome. So while one should strive to put those rounds in the “A” zone...hits, ANY hits, count.
 

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At the same time, the average non-LE defensive shooting is 1.7(iirc...it was under 2) rounds fired. That’s not even hits...just rounds fired.

I carry 5 shots all the time. Not worried about being undergunned in the slightest.

And remember, it doesn’t matter if your assailant is alive...just that they stop; a hit in the arm, or a non-physically debilitating torso shot that makes your attacker cease whatever he was doing that made it necessary to shoot him is a perfectly acceptable outcome. So while one should strive to put those rounds in the “A” zone...hits, ANY hits, count.
NAA?
 

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My understanding is the same, average gun fight is less than 2 rounds, and that just by pulling out a gun, hearing the shot, and or the bad guy seeing blood on them anywhere on their body will have 90% of the scum bags turn and run which is really what we are looking for ...

I also believe quality and dependability of a gun supersedes the capacity issue.

I guess it's that 5 or 10 percent where being high on drugs and continuing to charge or a group of thugs with 3 or more people and such that pushes me toward a little more capacity.

I usually carry the CZ rami (10 +1) or XDE 9mm (8 +1) and now sometimes xd/2 9mm or hellcat. All compacts or subcompacts, that meets quality and dependability however 11 or more rounds with the exception of XDE ...

Capacity never used to be a factor for me but lately it kinda got put on my list. So pocket pistols I have and need however probably carry them as my only weapon maybe a couple days a month...
 

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My understanding is the same, average gun fight is less than 2 rounds, and that just by pulling out a gun, hearing the shot, and or the bad guy seeing blood on them anywhere on their body will have 90% of the scum bags turn and run which is really what we are looking for ...

I also believe quality and dependability of a gun supersedes the capacity issue.

I guess it's that 5 or 10 percent where being high on drugs and continuing to charge or a group of thugs with 3 or more people and such that pushes me toward a little more capacity.

I usually carry the CZ rami (10 +1) or XDE 9mm (8 +1) and now sometimes xd/2 9mm or hellcat. All compacts or subcompacts, that meets quality and dependability however 11 or more rounds with the exception of XDE ...

Capacity never used to be a factor for me but lately it kinda got put on my list. So pocket pistols I have and need however probably carry them as my only weapon maybe a couple days a month...
If I’m carrying a small 9mm, it’s a P30sk with 13rd mags.

If I’m carrying a small .45...a USP Compact.

But I also carry a P238 fairly often in the pocket as backup...which could easily be the primary, given the situation (a pocket draw is amazingly fast, if you can start with your hand on the gun)...if not the 238, a J-frame, or even the NAA .22WMR.

The fact is, going from prey to hunter is something few scumbags can deal with. The ones that can—you’re in for a fight...but even then, you’re ahead of the curve if you’ve decided you’re in it to the end.
 

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There was a home invasion in Houston tx last year with over 60 rounds fired. There was a SD shooting in a Detroit suburb about a month or two ago that started in the guys front yard and end a half a block away that had over 30 rounds fired between the homeowner and three criminals.
A truck driver friend of mine was involved in a hijack situation that had 40+ rounds fired over a 60' distance.
I wish I could live on the planet you guys do where little guns with no capacity did the trick because shootings are two feet away and two rounds.
 

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There was a home invasion in Houston tx last year with over 60 rounds fired. There was a SD shooting in a Detroit suburb about a month or two ago that started in the guys front yard and end a half a block away that had over 30 rounds fired between the homeowner and three criminals.
A truck driver friend of mine was involved in a hijack situation that had 40+ rounds fired over a 60' distance.
I wish I could live on the planet you guys do where little guns with no capacity did the trick because shootings are two feet away and two rounds.
I know you won’t see this because you’re scared of me, but...you need to understand the concept of outliers.

In short, how many other defensive shootings happened in that time that required many, many fewer rounds?

In other words, looking at those incidents and deciding you need to have umpteen rounds on tap is like looking at Newman’s crash at Daytona and deciding you need to put a roll cage and 5-point harness in your minivan.

(Although...considering the odds of being in a serious wreck vs being in a high round count defensive shooting...the latter move would be a lot more logical)
 

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Understand this... Read slowly... There is nothing... Absolutely NOTHING magical about a 45 in a mouse gun. There is zero reason to stick with a big bullet in a mouse gun. If I really wanted a derringer/mouse gun, I would have zero problem with 380.

It's just ridiculous, to insist on 45, in such a restricted, compromised platform. If you must have a mouse gun, then choose the right tool for the job.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Understand this... Read slowly... There is nothing... Absolutely NOTHING magical about a 45 in a mouse gun. There is zero reason to stick with a big bullet in a mouse gun. If I really wanted a derringer/mouse gun, I would have zero problem with 380.

It's just ridiculous, to insist on 45, in such a restricted, compromised platform. If you must have a mouse gun, then choose the right tool for the job.
I will respectfully disagree. Let's say that you have two "mouse" guns, a .45 and a .380. Understand that you'll get limited velocity from a barrel that short in either caliber. And a situation where such a tiny gun is appropriate is usually in a non-permissive environment where you absolutely can't afford to be caught carrying. Conversely, if it's no big deal to be caught, then why not carry a full-size 1911?

So in a situation that requires pretty deep concealment (thus the "pocket pistol" reference in the thread title), would you prefer .45 or .380? I'll take the .45 ten times out of ten.
 

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I will respectfully disagree. Let's say that you have two "mouse" guns, a .45 and a .380. Understand that you'll get limited velocity from a barrel that short in either caliber. And a situation where such a tiny gun is appropriate is usually in a non-permissive environment where you absolutely can't afford to be caught carrying. Conversely, if it's no big deal to be caught, then why not carry a full-size 1911?

So in a situation that requires pretty deep concealment (thus the "pocket pistol" reference in the thread title), would you prefer .45 or .380? I'll take the .45 ten times out of ten.
You’re not going to make a functioning .45acp auto pistol that will fit in the same envelope as a .380. Just not gonna happen.

The closest thing is the Doubletap .45, which is a two-shot, derringer-type pistol.

So two shots of .45, with severely degraded velocity that may very well retard penetration even with ball ammunition, or 6-7 shots of .380FMJ that will penetrate deeply enough to be effective?

I think I’d lean towards the .380, m'self.
 
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