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Discussion Starter #1
Here in MN, the legislature is trying to beef up the existing carry law and of course the anti-gun people are all in a tizzy saying it gives gun carriers the right to shoot anyone. Below is a list of Facts and Fallacies a local blogger (Mitch Berg) put out this morning on the True North site.


Just The Facts Written by Mitch Berg Friday, 06 May 2011 06:16 Remember - the way to tell when "progressives" are lying about gun laws is "check to see if their lips are moving".
Since we have hearings this afternoon, and there wil likely be a floor vote soon, it''ll be good to get clear on a couple of the "points" in the left's "argument" against the Stand Your Ground bill:
The Bill Does: Adds "Stand Your Ground" to Minnesota's self-defense law. It removes the requirement that an intended victim of violent crime must retreat from a place where he has a right to be before using deadly force in self defense.

The Bill Does Not: Allow people to shoot people who wander onto their property. While the unclear and capricious "duty to retreat" is eliminated, the requirement that lethal force be reasonable, and the fear of death or great bodily harm be legitimate, do not change. This is a point that Twin Cities' "progressives" have been playing fast and loose. Read: Lying.
The Bill Does: Enhance the "Castle Doctrine". The proposal clarifies when and under what circumstances individuals can legally use deadly force to protect themselves in their homes and vehicles. It also creates a presumption that, when faced with an apparent home invasion, carjacking or kidnapping attempt, a person may use deadly force in self defense.
The Bill Does Not: Allow people to shoot people for trivial reasons. "Progressives" want you to believe that the bill will allow you to shoot people who "give you the stink eye". They say this because lies are all they have.
The Bill Does: Prevent Gun Seizures During States of Emergency. It bans government agencies from seizing guns or ammo, revoking permits to purchase or carry, closing gun shops, or otherwise suspending our constitutional rights during civil emergencies. It also prohibits law enforcement officers from seizing a person's gun (unless the person is arrested, and the gun is evidence of a crime).
The Bill Does Not: Give people a "get out of jail free card" for killing people when self-defense is not justified.
The Bill Does: Improve State Background Checks. It requires the Minnesota Department of Human Services and state courts to make their background check records available electronically to authorized agencies, including the National Instant Background Check system (NICS), the "instant background check" database that controls handgun sales nationwide. This process was supposed to have been in place 16 years ago - that's your bureaucracy at work! It should reduce purchasing delays and ensure that state and federal checks produce the same results.
The Bill Does Not: Make it easier to kill people in domestic arguments. Just the opposite.
What The Bill Does: Create a more robust appeal process for denied purchase permits, and requiring that police chiefs and sheriffs whose purchase permit denials are overturned must pay the applicants' legal costs. Y'know - requires them to follow the law, rather than their bureaucratic whim.
The Bill Does Not: Give gun owners the right to kill deputies and cops that irritate them. No "progressive" has suggested it would - yet - but you know those wacky "progressives"; it won't take 'em long.
The Bill Does: Adds Universal Carry Permit Acceptance. It updates Minnesota's carry permit reciprocity standards, allowing people holding carry permits from any other state to carry in Minnesota (subject to Minnesota's laws). This should result in a large increase in the number of states where Minnesota permit holders can carry, since many states allow other states' permit holders to carry on a reciprocal basis.
The Bill Does Not: Let anyone kill anyone for trivial reasons. Period. End of sentence. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.
The Bill Does: Give self-defense shooters the presumption of innocence until guilt is proven. Currently, self-defense shooters must, in effect, say "yes, I'm guilty, but here's my excuse" - a profound legal risk that not even serial killers face.
That's really all that matters.


The problem with the bill is that Gov. Goofy (Dayton) says he'll veto it because it endangers law enforcement personnel, even though a police chief is the one who authored the bill. How does allowing a person to protect themselves endanger law enforcement personnel?
 

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Sim things happened when FLorida mandated shall issue. Everyone said it's gonna be the wild west. Facts, there were less violent crimes back then than now BECAUSE everyone carried guns & everyone knew that. Today the BGs know where people are not carrying guns & that is where they tend to go t do extreme levels of violence.
Give everyone that is legal to carry a handgun, get some training, you'll see violent crime drop to all time lows.
 

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Not to resurrect an old thread, but the MN Senate voted 40-23 in favor of HF 1467, "Stand Your Ground", today, 2-23-2012. It will now go to Governor Dayton's desk, and it is yet unclear whether he will veto it.

Googling "MN stand your ground" points to this thread, and I wanted to update it.
 

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Not to resurrect an old thread, but the MN Senate voted 40-23 in favor of HF 1467, "Stand Your Ground", today, 2-23-2012. It will now go to Governor Dayton's desk, and it is yet unclear whether he will veto it.

Googling "MN stand your ground" points to this thread, and I wanted to update it.
Thank you! Didn't know they were voting today on it, fingers crossed Dayton doesn't screw it up :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
If I had $100 (I had to use it to fill my gas tank, thanks Obama), I'd bet ol' Gov. Goofy will veto the bill because all the democrat police chiefs have been pulling his ear saying how dangerous this will be for police officers knocking on doors and chasing criminals through yards. Seriously, that is the reasoning former St. Paul police chief and now state senator Harrington gave for opposing the bill. Minneapolis police chief Dolan wants everyone to register their guns. Dayton would be a real hypocrite for not signing the bill since he did say he had two loaded pistol in his house to protect his family.
 

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It's not likely has long as there's a democrat in the Governor's mansion.
 

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It's not likely has long as there's a democrat in the Governor's mansion.
It is my understanding that a few Democrats in the legislature voted for the bill. Unfortunately, Gov. Dayton is a far-left radical much like Obama. There is a strong liklihood that the bill will die on Dayton's desk.

I am not sure if there are provisions (e.g. override a veto) to deal with that or not, since Republicans dominate the state legislature.
 

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From what I've heard they are two votes shy of an over ride. Kind of reminiscent of Wisconsin's concealed carry. Democrats in power will stop 2nd amendment rights any time they are presented with the opportunity.
 

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Is it just me or does Dayton look like he has a small stroke every time he is on TV. He was on Kare11 the other night talking and I swear he did. I really hope he reads it and changes his mind.
 

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Just curious, in MN, is there a time limit as to how many days the Governor has to sign or it automatically goes into effect, since the bill already met the Senate and House approval?
 

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Yeah, I'm quite annoyed with him. His police chiefs are morons

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
 

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There is no surprise in this at all. Dayton is a typical trust fund democrat who has made his whole political career out of his father's and grandfather's name.
When he's not hiding under his desk he's out on the stump crying for higher taxes on the rich. He doesn't like to to talk about the fact that his trust fund is set up out of South Dakota so his family can avoid Minnesota taxes. I would like to see a study on carry laws and castle doctrines. I'd really like to know how many were passed with democrat governors or democrat led state legislators.

This is all a result of 3rd party politics. Many conservatives voted 3rd party in Minnesota. That put Dayton in office. So all you Minnesotan's that voted for Emmer to prove a point. The failure of the castle doctrine is the point you proved. You sure showed us.
 
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