[LDB]

One of, if not the most, important things before carrying is magazine testing. Opinions vary on the number of rounds minimum before giving a green light to carry. Some people say I think too much. This morning's thought was the following.

With a high capacity magazine of 19 rounds, that's a full box of carry ammo for one test. Let's say we've run 2 boxes of range ammo through with zero faults. That's 5 cycles. Now, do we need to run 19 rounds of carry ammo through 5 cycles or could we load carry ammo top and bottom with range ammo in the middle?

I thought maybe 2 or 3 carry then range ammo with 2 or 3 carry topping it off. It would seem like if the first and last few are carry ammo that's going to tell if the mag plays nicely with it since it seems like any problems would be either when first using the mag or getting to the last rounds. It would save quite a bit too having 6 carry and 13 range loads per mag.

So, too much thinking or a reasonable testing method?

 

[wannagofast]

I just bought a new XDm and picked up a few more mags to go with the gun. I may not have given it as much thought as you, but I have 5 total 9mm 19rnd mags that I wanted to run through some testing. When I got them I loaded them all up with my range ammo to make sure they would all take 19rnds without any issues. Then unloaded them all by hand to see if there were any hangups with the release of rounds. Loaded 4 of the mags back up with range ammo and 1 with carry rounds for a trip to the range for the first shooting.

Everything went fine my first go around and a subsequent trip also went well. About 450 rounds through the 5 mags with each one being loaded and shot at least 3x with range and 1x each with carry rounds, and a few mags got a 5th cycle while getting a mixed load of range and carry rounds. I am keeping them all loaded full with rounds for at least the first month while they are not in use. So far I've identified one mag that is very hard to get the last two rounds in to top it off, and also the same mag doesn't slide/lock into the mag well as easily as the 4 others. Fair to say that mag is currently only for use at the range and if it doesn't break in somewhat over the next month or two it might just get taken out of duty all together.

 

[thetravlor]

200 rounds ball ammo then PD ammo to your suiting. I would think 20-50 rounds there through the different magazines.


IMHO, 19 rounds in a mag is a recipe for disaster. I've seen too many guns malfunction with a too full load.

 

[TSiWRX]

IMHO, 19 rounds in a mag is a recipe for disaster. I've seen too many guns malfunction with a too full load.

^ That's a problem either of the unique magazine or the unique gun in terms of hardware - or it could be the user, in terms of the hardware/software interfeace.

None of my three XDms have ever had a problem when loaded to +1 capacity, and that includes with the use of their factory 19-rounders. This includes both mechanical stoppages as well as user-errors (i.e. mis-seating of the incoming tac-reload mag due to top-round bounce-back), and the in-link below should give an idea of how/how much I've used my XDms over the last three years.

Certainly, this could just be me, but I do have a reasonable number of rounds on the clock. Yes, it's only 3 XDms and only ~14 mags in active use (I'm hesitant to also count the mags that I've purchased over the last couple of years and have at least made sure that they work, but have not truly put to extensive use), but even with this limited outlook, I'm fairly comfortable in saying that the problem isn't one that's inherent to the system of high-capacity magazines or even more specifically to the 19-rounders of the XDm.

Nevertheless, can this be a real problem?

Undeniably.

And if the end-user of his/her unique gun/magazines finds that it is an issue that they have, then they need to come to grips with whether or not it is in their best interest to sacrifice one or even two rounds and down-load the magazine or, alternatively, to seek hardware solutions. Here's the Triumvirate of "Super Dave," Vickers and Hackathorn discussing Glock mods on Tac-TV, and why they prefer to down-load the magazine:

-----


Getting back to the OP:

LDB - If you're testing your carry or HD gun/mags, just load the entire thing with your intended defensive ammo and run the vetting test.

The question isn't how much money you spend for this one test - it's how much that money is, relative to the implied value of their intended task. :wink:

Some have pointed to the magazines as being a weak point of the XD-platform, but in my experience so far, I've had pretty good luck ---> http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/genera...3401-cleaning-mags-how-often.html#post4394396

Yeah, my training/range mags get pretty beat.... :lol:

 

[BiTone]

I have a xdm 40 compact. I have 2 mags, one 11 and one 16, I just got the gun and was noticing that the 16 round would not engage the slide lock every time when empty. And when it would only the edge would catch. I never had ANY problem with the shorter 11 round mag. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance

 

[R3dbull4dd1kt]

One of, if not the most, important things before carrying is magazine testing. Opinions vary on the number of rounds minimum before giving a green light to carry. Some people say I think too much. This morning's thought was the following.

With a high capacity magazine of 19 rounds, that's a full box of carry ammo for one test. Let's say we've run 2 boxes of range ammo through with zero faults. That's 5 cycles. Now, do we need to run 19 rounds of carry ammo through 5 cycles or could we load carry ammo top and bottom with range ammo in the middle?

I thought maybe 2 or 3 carry then range ammo with 2 or 3 carry topping it off. It would seem like if the first and last few are carry ammo that's going to tell if the mag plays nicely with it since it seems like any problems would be either when first using the mag or getting to the last rounds. It would save quite a bit too having 6 carry and 13 range loads per mag.

So, too much thinking or a reasonable testing method?

Way Way Way overcomplicated IMO...This is my process after every new purchase

Step 1) Unbox New Gun...field strip...clean thoroughly...Inspect and lube...reassemble...function check with Dummy Rounds
Step 2) Repeat Step One on Magazines...
Step 3) Fire 250 rounds of Ball Ammo same Grain Weight and Bullet Profile as chosen carry ammo (or handload it if the reloading bug got ya)
Step 4) Fire One full rack of SD ammo in each 'Carry Mag'

To distinguish which mags are 'Carry Approved' initially, I use a labelmaker and affix a number to each magazine; this is a blessing when diagnosing malfunctions (if you experience any) and also for keeping track of your magazine supply...

I currently trust all my magazines (I have 12) for carry duty after roughly 350 rounds through each and every one without a single malfunction...

I have a xdm 40 compact. I have 2 mags, one 11 and one 16, I just got the gun and was noticing that the 16 round would not engage the slide lock every time when empty. And when it would only the edge would catch. I never had ANY problem with the shorter 11 round mag. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance

weak magazine spring would be my first thought...otherwise could be a bad follower...

was the gun new or used? how many rounds have been run through it? this will help narrow the possibilities for the malfunction...also are you positive that your thumb is not 'riding' the slide stop because of your grip shifting due to the full-size mag vs. the stumpy one?

 

[2000Gsx]

I haven't ran many through but my xdm 9 hasn't had issue w the factory 19rnd. I've put maybe 200 down it, probably 60% of which in the full size mag. No problems so far. 3 brands of ammo used and a half dozen SD rounds.

 

[BiTone]

Way Way Way overcomplicated IMO...This is my process after every new purchase

Step 1) Unbox New Gun...field strip...clean thoroughly...Inspect and lube...reassemble...function check with Dummy Rounds
Step 2) Repeat Step One on Magazines...
Step 3) Fire 250 rounds of Ball Ammo same Grain Weight and Bullet Profile as chosen carry ammo (or handload it if the reloading bug got ya)
Step 4) Fire One full rack of SD ammo in each 'Carry Mag'

To distinguish which mags are 'Carry Approved' initially, I use a labelmaker and affix a number to each magazine; this is a blessing when diagnosing malfunctions (if you experience any) and also for keeping track of your magazine supply...

I currently trust all my magazines (I have 12) for carry duty after roughly 350 rounds through each and every one without a single malfunction...




weak magazine spring would be my first thought...otherwise could be a bad follower...

was the gun new or used? how many rounds have been run through it? this will help narrow the possibilities for the malfunction...also are you positive that your thumb is not 'riding' the slide stop because of your grip shifting due to the full-size mag vs. the stumpy one?

The gun is brand new from the factory. Had it shipped to a FFL dealer, i hope it's not a faulty mag. I haven't had time to get to the range and also thought signs point to weak spring, when both mags are empty I can feel a significant difference between the two mags the shorter feels to have a much stronger Spring than the full size mag. I have taken both apart and inspected both of them. Was thinking I'd try to get my hands on another full-size magazine and compare the two next to each other

 

[LDB]

My thinking was that 5 full loads per magazine would be a good initial minimum test. For FMJ I'm getting brass Blazer at Academy for $14 a box. That's 2 boxes or $28 which isn't too bad. For carry ammo that would be 5 boxes at $20 minimum per box or $100. That wouldn't be bad at all if I'd been born rich instead of so good looking. That's quite a bit though.

If I load 3-13-3 then I get 5 full loads from 1.5 boxes of carry ammo instead of 5 boxes, or $30 vs. $100. Overall it's $58 vs. $128 per magazine. For 3 magazines, one in the gun and two spares it's $174 vs. $384. The difference would buy 15 boxes of practice ammo or about 48 magazines worth. That's a lot of extra practice if loading the first and last few rounds of carry ammo with ball in between would give an adequate test.

 

[R3dbull4dd1kt]

The gun is brand new from the factory. Had it shipped to a FFL dealer, i hope it's not a faulty mag. I haven't had time to get to the range and also thought signs point to weak spring, when both mags are empty I can feel a significant difference between the two mags the shorter feels to have a much stronger Spring than the full size mag. I have taken both apart and inspected both of them. Was thinking I'd try to get my hands on another full-size magazine and compare the two next to each other

sounds like a weak mag spring...hard to be 100% sure without physically seeing it...any chance you know anybody with the same pistol and a known-to-be-good mag you could run through it to benchtest?

My thinking was that 5 full loads per magazine would be a good initial minimum test. For FMJ I'm getting brass Blazer at Academy for $14 a box. That's 2 boxes or $28 which isn't too bad. For carry ammo that would be 5 boxes at $20 minimum per box or $100. That wouldn't be bad at all if I'd been born rich instead of so good looking. That's quite a bit though.

If I load 3-13-3 then I get 5 full loads from 1.5 boxes of carry ammo instead of 5 boxes, or $30 vs. $100. Overall it's $58 vs. $128 per magazine. For 3 magazines, one in the gun and two spares it's $174 vs. $384. The difference would buy 15 boxes of practice ammo or about 48 magazines worth. That's a lot of extra practice if loading the first and last few rounds of carry ammo with ball in between would give an adequate test.

so why ask for feedback if you intend to ignore it and do what you proposed anyway? I guess I am unable to see how your scenario has any better end results, while being three times as complicated and more expensive...Your time and money, not mine...

 

[BiTone]

sounds like a weak mag spring...hard to be 100% sure without physically seeing it...any chance you know anybody with the same pistol and a known-to-be-good mag you could run through it to benchtest?


i don't know any one with a xdm but was thinking of finding a gun shop that would have one on hand and if it's bad I guess I gotta replace a spring in a magazine I haven't even shot out of yet ugh thank you for your thoughts

 

[LDB]

so why ask for feedback if you intend to ignore it and do what you proposed anyway? I guess I am unable to see how your scenario has any better end results, while being three times as complicated and more expensive...Your time and money, not mine...

I haven't made up my mind about anything yet. I merely expanded on my thoughts of how and why that might offer a good and less expensive solution. I'm not sure how it's 3 times as complicated and I'm not sure how $174 is more expensive than $384.

I'm no expert so I asked about it here. It seems to me if there is going to be a problem with a given mag and ammo it's likely going to be in the first 2-3 rounds or the last 2-3 rounds failing to feed properly, failing to lock the slide properly or whatever. If that is true then why not put the ammo to be tested in those spots and put range ammo in the middle?

 

[TSiWRX]

^ Another thing about not shooting your defensive ammo:

Are you truly familiar enough with its recoil characteristics, its blast and flash characteristics in low/no-light, and its external ballistics at varying ranges?

Yes, there's a lot of money to be saved by going with only range ammo - but the real perspective of this isn't tens of dollars versus hundreds of dollars: rather, it's the idea of dollars versus the reality of a self-defense shoot.

Yes, it does stand to-logic that any potential problems should crop up sooner rather than later (my reply to your other thread hopefully shows you that I'm well cognizant of the fact that ammo costs money, and that, logically, an ammo-related issue should show up sooner rather than later: http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/genera...-round-count-before-carrying.html#post4531433) - but there's a bigger picture here.