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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a friend that I bought a xd service for a while ago for defensive use and she can handle it pretty well but I think it would be nicer if I could take away some of the recoil. would dons guide rod really do the job of makeing the recoil less than the stock rod and spring? Can't I just replace the springs of the stock rod? If I could, where could I get them and what kind? I am interested in the dons guide rod but I'm concerned about damaging the gun, from what I read from some people, it doesn't sound too reliable as the stock spring. Would the #20 spring make the recoil less than the #22? I've only seen reviews for the #22 and they say it's less but on the pistol gear site it says the #18 is stock rating and isn't the lower the number, the lesser the recoil? So, thinking this, I don't know why a #22 would give less recoil. but if I have that backwards, then a #24 should give even less recoil right?
 

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The full length guide rods for the xd`s will make the pistol more reliable. You will not have to worry about the stock assembly breaking and falling apart in the pistol.

The recoil is really more perceptive than anything elese. Ligter springs will alow the slide to go back faster and close without as much jump. The fast backwards movement of the slide helps people. The heavy springs slow the movement of the slide so it seems like a push more than a snap, and is more drawn out.

A heavy spring may make it more dificult for her to work the slide. This is something that is important since you will want her to be able to use the pistol well.

Remeber the recoil will still be there, for every action there is an oppisite but equal reaction. So if you shoot brand x round loaded to a certain power factor the same recoil will always be there. The springs just allow you to fine tune to your preference, fast and snappy so it seems as if there is less recoil becuase it happens or more a a long drawn out push.

To truely reduce recoil you will need lower power ammo. Reloading will allow you to fine tune how much velocity you need combined with the bullet weight and you can easily change how the pistol shoots and make it a more pleasent experence.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
so I would want a lighter sping in there than the stock spring so I could get less recoil and it would be easier for her to rack the slide as well wouldn't it? What would you recommend?
 

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Well yes and no. Remeber the recoils energy wont change....just how its felt. The ligter spring will make it happen a whole lot quicker so it seems as if its lighter, and it also pushes the slide back into batter gentler so the pistol does not snap back as violently.

The racking of the slide will be easier with a 17 or 16 pound spring. You will have to see if your wife can rack the slide easily with the stock 18 pounds, if she can barely rack it now then a 22pound will not help and make it worse.

I sent you a PM
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
on pistol gear, 16 is only for tactical and she has a service and then there is 18 but that says stock rateing, does that mean the 18 feels the same as the stock spring? if so, I don't think that would be any good change.
 

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The 22# may be too much for racking for her. Compared to my other pistols, the XD with a 22# takes a much firmer hand to rack. I would never want my wife to have to rack the XD40 with a 22# spring, as it may eventually destroy her wrists.

My perceptions with the different springs:

The stock spring makes the slide slap faster. The feeling is more like a metal to metal snap to me. I don't like that feeling.

The 22# spring creates a sensation as if there is more of a cushion during recoil. It would be like reducing the flow of the air in your storm door's pneumatic closer so that the door requires more force to move.

Either way, we've got to absorb the same amount of energy during recoil. It's just that you can control the way the energy is pushed back into you hands - fast and snappy, or slower with more cushion.

-Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
so.... when the gun fires and the slide moves back and forth, it causes the recoil right? and a heaver spring will reduce the quickness of it's return but a ligther spring will make it snap back faster than the stock spring which will make more of a recoil? I would think the recoil is caused by the slide going back and a heavy spring would make it go back slower and make less recoil. How will a lighter spring make less recoil, it won't slow down the slide since it won't have as much resistance, it'll snap back and forth quicker and won't that make more recoil?
 

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OK Forget about it I was going to offer you some free springs in the different weights to try.

There are no aftermarket guide rods for the subcompact because of the dimensions. Its really hard to get a strong enough spring that will fit in the space allowed and not have coil bind when the springs coils touch each other when compressed. Sometime in the next year lazermax should have something for the subcompact that we may be able to "use" only the springs for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
don't get upset just because I feel uncomfortalbe talking with someone I don't know. it's nothing personal. it was nice of you to offer some springs though, it was a nice thought, so thank you anyway.
 

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Honestly. What is stock in there will work just fine. Have her shoot more to get used to the recoil.

You can guess at springs and you might do OK. However, to actually tune a spring in correctly, is hard.

If you have have ever taken diffy-q, you will understand the spring-damper relationship. If you want to actually get down to what really is really needed to tune a spring-mass-damper system in, then you will have to be able to solve some 2nd order diffy-q's and do some decent modeling. If you really feel inclinded, I can give you the modeling equations. :)

Just shoot more and forget about "improving" the pistol.

-Dana
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
yeah, It's not a very big deal, she's pretty ok with it but sometimes has trouble racking the slide but can't probably get better at it using a better hold. She's said she can feel a difference when shooting my sub compact and the service model I got her and prefers the service. I just thought cutting down on the recoil more would be extra nice for her but it's not nessecary, it probably is more trouble than it's worth. She want's it silver though, I had sent it in a few months ago to springfield to get it refinished under warrenty. I told them that my friend wants it in silver but if it's a problem for them, then they can just finish it in black because she and I would be happy enough for it to not have any rust problems because it did have pretty large spots on the slide that would rust from time to time and they sent it back in the black finish which was a dissapointment since she was expecting silver and I was hoping I'd get it in silver, I guess it's easier for them to do it in black or maybe they were out, who knows, they know. I might like to get it chromed for her sometime, all the metal parts chromed would look nice to her I think but I don't want to spend the money at this time, I have too many bills right now. She doesn't practice often, we use to go to the range a lot together but I mainly practice with my police friends but sometimes she'll ask me where her gun is and want to hold it and aim it and stuff. I got her a laser site, an M6 and I think it would be very useful since she doesn't really have the practice to aim well but I doubt she would miss anyway if she pointed toward the center of a person and fired, I mainly wanted the laser for her to just add a little bit of intimidation for the bad guy and assure her that she is on target, it might make her feel more confident and less afraid if she sees that dot on him. She's only shot about 500 bullets through it, i've thought about selling it or trading it in and using the money for a smaller gun that she could conceal better so she could have an easier time carrying it but she wouldn't really like anything smaller, she got this a day after I got mine because she felt she should have a gun for protection and really liked how it felt in her hand and liked the safty features. I was kind of hoping she would pick the service and she did after trying out every gun in guns unlimited (a local firearms dealer) . I think a smaller gun would give her a lot of recoil that she wouldn't like but I am just struggling with the issue, I know she likes this one and can shoot it without any complaints but how practical is carrying a service xd around, especially for conceal carry? a snub nose revolver would be easier for her to carry I think but the recoil wouldn't be good for her nor the way it feels in her hand but do does things really matter when a girl had to shoot someone, usualy it's a scary time and I doubt they would even consider the way it felt and how much recoil there was. I doubt a girl is going to get in some gun fight with someone. So I just don't know. She does have a purse holster, day planner holster and keeps it next to her bed at night but a little revolver would be lighter and maybe.
 

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Effects of a lighter spring:

Recoil is transferred to the shooter in a shorter duration of time because the slide is moving at a higher velocity. This is often perceived as less recoil and reduced muzzle flip.

With a lighter spring the shooter also has less force to counteract, or you don’t have to work as hard. This usually reduces muzzle flip.

Less force to counteract reduces the odds of producing a limp wrist style jam.

A lighter spring will result is reduced muzzle dip when the slide closes keeping sights steadier and on target for a faster follow-up shot.

Light springs are particularly helpful to smaller shooters like children, women or anyone else having trouble keeping their wrists locked.


Effects of a Heavier spring:

Recoil is transferred to the shooter over a longer duration of time due to lower slide velocities.

Slower slides equal a longer recovery time for the shooter.

The shooter does more work, as there is more force to counteract. This often causes and increase in muzzle flip.

The chances of a limp wrist style jam are increased, as there is more force working to unlock your wrists.

The chance of the slide short stroking and causing a feed jam is increased.

Increased muzzle dip when the slide closes for a slower follow-up shot.


Brass Ejection:
It does not matter how far away it lands or if it is in a neat pile. You are there to shoot not to pick up brass.


Frame Battering:
A non-issue for XD pistols. It falls under the category of Internet Nonsense along with the idea that light springs cause kabooms and broken parts.


Spring Selection and Testing:
There is no magic weight that is perfect for all shooters, loads and guns. Each shooter must evaluate and test various weights to determine what is best for their application.

For rough tuning try different standard weights. For fine-tuning, take a spring slightly heavier than you prefer and trim it until it is just right, this is a trial and error process.

I do not recommend changing the springs or guiderod in the subcompact pistols. The doublespring rod system works fairly well and I have not found anything better on the market yet for those pistols.

For the midsize guns the free length of the spring is too long and prevents the slide from fully cycling. You may want to start by removing 5 coils and then check for full travel. Trim until the slide has full travel then check for proper lockup.


You can go too light:
The firing pin spring can overpower an old or too light recoil spring causing the slide to pull slightly out of battery as you pull the trigger resulting in a light primer strike. If you have off center light primer strike this is probably the cause.

Feeding jams. The slide can be so fast that the mag spring cannot keep up.

Hope this helps open some doors for ya.
 

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Some of the observations i agree with, some I do not.

I see less muzzle flip with a heavier spring in my XD40 and in my HS2000s. A lighter spring can have less muzzle dip, but if the muzzle is higher in the air, then it is not bringing it down to target for me.

The lighter spring puts a higher peak force into your hand over a short period of time. Area under the curve is the same, the period of time is changed. Work is the same.

Limp wrist is a slide velocity issue, which may or may not be related to peak force.

The whole issue of springs for competition is a timing issue, and general statements may not take into consideration the differences in bullet weights and velocities. They certainly cannot take into consideration the variable spring constant of grip strength and body mass, which can be a far greater influence than the spring weight.

In the before the hack forum there was a cite from a member listing his split times from competition, and he cited shorter splits with the heavier spring. Measured times, not perceptions. This illustrates that it is all different for different people and style of competition.

The issue of springs for comfort is different yet. Shoot what you like. In another before the hack forum post, a member with arthritis found that he could enjoy shooting again with a heavier spring. It was more comfortable for him.

I perceive less recoil with the heavier springs, I can shoot longer. :D




For the midsize guns the free length of the spring is too long and prevents the slide from fully cycling. You may want to start by removing 5 coils and then check for full travel.
What springs family are you starting wth? If you have calipers and can measure the wire diameter I can pretty much tell you what you will need to do. Then still double check.

The firing pin spring can overpower an old or too light recoil spring causing the slide to pull slightly out of battery as you pull the trigger resulting in a light primer strike
The recoil spring is acting against the striker spring. As you pull the trigger you have a few thousandth of rear striker movement (stock trigger sear engagement) then as soon as the striker is released the slide goes more firmly into battery, not less. You suddenly gain 4 more lbs of force holding the slide shut. There would be very little rearward momentum on the slide at this point, only caused by the relative mass of the striker moving forward, but again since the recoil spring is suddenly adding four pounds force
the slide should remain solid.
 
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