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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Components came in Thursday, so after work Friday I measured the 100 Lapua cases I bought to see what the Max. and Min. length were thinking I would trim them down to match the minimum. Well, this stuff is as good as advertised. Most cases were 1.750" which is Trim-To length. None were longer than 1.751" and none shorter than 1.749". Not much point in trimming since I doubt if I could hold trim tolerance to +/- .001", anway. The annealing looked good and goes well below the shoulder. All I did was ream and chamfer by hand. Primer pockets were excellent as well.

Just came in from loading 20 each with the SIERRA 65 gr. SPBT using X-Terminator, TAC and W748 @ 2.258". Loaded 20 each of the Hornady 55 gr. FMJ-BTw/c using TAC and W748. Naturally, the most time consuming part was setting up my new REDDING dies including the separate Taper Crimp die in the new turret I bought for the Classic Turret press. All loads were taper crimped including the 55 gr. FMJ-BTw/c where I followed another REDDING die user's recommendation for taper crimping into the cannelure where I crimped just over the cannelures bottom shoulder to be able to load slightly longer @ 2.230". BTW, I loaded one station at a time, including throwing powder charges, rather than by auto-indexing.

Things went swimmingly on the Classic Turret and the Safety Prime with OACL variation at +/- .002" which I had guessed beforehand, and why I load the 65 gr. SPBTs at 2.258" so the longest loads wouldn't exceed SAAMI Max. of 2.260". Since I used dense spherical powders where TAC is denser and finer grained than W748 and X-terminator finer grained than TAC, I did not have to trickle charges. In fact, X-Terminator and TAC have the same bulk density at 985 grams/liter and as I mentioned, X-T being finer grained. It's also not too far from being true ball in shape. Can't wait to try the new loads out in the new Colt's Comp. CRX. May even do some more loading tomorrow after discovering some WIN once-fired brass I'd forgotten I had. It definitely needs trimming. Really hoping to see the SIERRA 65 gr. SPBT shine in the Lapua cases. The once-fired cases will probably all be loaded with the 55 gr. FMJ-BTw/c. ;)
 

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I got my Lapua brass in Thursday as well. Shot it today and had some good results, but that may also be due to the fact that I'm using one of the better-regarded powders for 223. I pulled 10 and found no big variations, so I just loaded it. Already decapping it, deburring & chamfering, and tumbling it for the next load. My wallet hurts a little though ;)
 

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Lapua is expensive but there is no better brass for rifles, maybe rws is as good, maybe.
 

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Looking forward to hearing your report once you get the new Colt out. Glad to hear the Lapua cases appear as good as advertised. That's what I was expecting to hear. I usually use RL-15 or IMR 8208XBR for my 69's and 77's. Both are extruded powders so I always have to trickle charge all my loads. Think I'm going have to pick up some Tac and give it a try.
 

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Looking forward to hearing your report once you get the new Colt out. Glad to hear the Lapua cases appear as good as advertised. That's what I was expecting to hear. I usually use RL-15 or IMR 8208XBR for my 69's and 77's. Both are extruded powders so I always have to trickle charge all my loads. Think I'm going have to pick up some Tac and give it a try.
A sleeper powder in 223, especially with hvy bullets, is AA2520. They call it a ball version of Varget, not a huge Varget fan, but AA250 is my ball powder of choice for 223.
 

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Thanks Fred. I'll have to start looking into the 2520. Hadn't heard of it before. Thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Accurate calls 2520 their Camp Perry powder based on past competition results in M1A rifles. It is the slowest powder listed by Western for .223 Rem and 5.56mm NATO. Like X-Terminator and TAC it's made in Belgium. Kinda funny because there is no Accurate equivelant for TAC and Ramhot's version of 2520 is only sold in Europe as wild Boar.

Even though I loaded 65 gr. SIERRA SPBTs where NOSLER does not make a 65, I did evaluate their 69 gr. HPBT data. Most accurate powder used was AA 2230 which is X-Terminator. Don't know if we'll shoot 69 gr. HPBTs or just move on up to the 77 gr. version. In the loads I'm getting ready to make after I log-off, I'll make up a 55 gr. Hornady FMJ-BT loads with X-Terminator, TAC and W748. Since my Uniflow has proven there's no need to trickle these dense powders, I'll probably wait until my SP has the time to load some rounds himself before getting into Varget. Right now, the easiest powders for us to find are W748 and Varget. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Okay, getting back to this thread because I wore my ass out, along with my SP's doing the most stringent break-in I've ever done with any rifle and it was with the CRX-16. BTW, the test target it came with used the Hornady 55 gr. (factory or handloads?) FMJ-BTw/c where they shot 3 rounds at .48" at 100 yards. I don't shoot 3 round groups in anything smaller than .270 Win. but that's another story.

Also shot the very first .45 ACP handloads I've ever made with SPPs. Most of you can probably guess which powder they were charged with.

I'm simply too tired to do a thread today, so look forward to a new one tomorrow. Was at the range from like 10:30 AM till about 5:pM. I'll see if I can do it justice tomorrow. ;)
 

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Looking forward to hearing about your results. Get some rest.
 

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Okay, getting back to this thread because I wore my ass out, along with my SP's doing the most stringent break-in I've ever done with any rifle and it was with the CRX-16. BTW, the test target it came with used the Hornady 55 gr. (factory or handloads?) FMJ-BTw/c where they shot 3 rounds at .48" at 100 yards. I don't shoot 3 round groups in anything smaller than .270 Win. but that's another story.

Also shot the very first .45 ACP handloads I've ever made with SPPs. Most of you can probably guess which powder they were charged with.

I'm simply too tired to do a thread today, so look forward to a new one tomorrow. Was at the range from like 10:30 AM till about 5:pM. I'll see if I can do it justice tomorrow. ;)
True Blue?

Break in is a myth IMO
 

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True Blue?

Break in is a myth IMO
There is a lot of controversy about bbl break in, but some of the top makers suggest a minimum break in period. It hurts nothing, costs nothing so why not?
I do bbl break in when zeroing the scope. Clean the bbl well, Fire a single round then wet patch & dry patch. I do this for 10rds. Then the scope is then on, shoot a 3rd group & clean the bbl. then another & clean the bbl. then I call it good. It probably doesn't help an avg bbl, but it certainly doesn't hurt a high end bbl.:mrgreen:
 

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There is a lot of controversy about bbl break in, but some of the top makers suggest a minimum break in period. It hurts nothing, costs nothing so why not?
I do bbl break in when zeroing the scope. Clean the bbl well, Fire a single round then wet patch & dry patch. I do this for 10rds. Then the scope is then on, shoot a 3rd group & clean the bbl. then another & clean the bbl. then I call it good. It probably doesn't help an avg bbl, but it certainly doesn't hurt a high end bbl.:mrgreen:
And some don't. I trust McMillan's opinion on this subject... Plus I've never seen any improvement on "properly" broke in barrels vs barrels shot like normal from the get go. Think about it - if you're a manufacturer, and you've found your barrels last about 20,000 rounds (223/5.56?), and you suggest a 70 round break in (5 rounds @ 1 shot/cleaning cycle, 5 rounds @ 3 shots/cleaning cycle, 5 rounds @ 10 rounds / cleaning cycle) that's 0.35% to "waste" which to the manufacturer, means 0.35% more barrels sold. If you barrels run $200 ea, that's $1400 extra just by putting a break-in recommendation. Of course these numbers are completely made up, but the math remains the same. Magnum barrels have much shorter lives, etc.

While I agree that ultra precision barrels may benefit (Kreiger, Bartlein, etc) from a break-in (whether or not they recommend it) that's a completely different story and something that should be discussed in another thread. :grin:
 

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And some don't. I trust McMillan's opinion on this subject... Plus I've never seen any improvement on "properly" broke in barrels vs barrels shot like normal from the get go. Think about it - if you're a manufacturer, and you've found your barrels last about 20,000 rounds (223/5.56?), and you suggest a 70 round break in (5 rounds @ 1 shot/cleaning cycle, 5 rounds @ 3 shots/cleaning cycle, 5 rounds @ 10 rounds / cleaning cycle) that's 0.35% to "waste" which to the manufacturer, means 0.35% more barrels sold. If you barrels run $200 ea, that's $1400 extra just by putting a break-in recommendation. Of course these numbers are completely made up, but the math remains the same. Magnum barrels have much shorter lives, etc.

While I agree that ultra precision barrels may benefit (Kreiger, Bartlein, etc) from a break-in (whether or not they recommend it) that's a completely different story and something that should be discussed in another thread. :grin:
The purpose is not to improve accuracy but to reduce fouling. So diff to tell if there is any benefit or not, but you have to get the scope zeroed, not wasting any shots really.:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The purpose is not to improve accuracy but to reduce fouling. So diff to tell if there is any benefit or not, but you have to get the scope zeroed, not wasting any shots really.:confused:

Well, I'm not gonna do a new thread, we'll just continue on. Didn't have the CRX bore-sighted and that wasn't much of a handicap. BTW, the scope is a Nikon P-223. As I said, the factory target is like .48" for 3 rounds at 100 yards. We shot the standard Midway target beginning at 50 yards where I easily put 5 rounds in the 1" X or 10 ring several times and didn't even bother measuring. The stringent cleaning process probably was over-kill, but what the hell.

The procedure was that I shot 5 rounds over the chrono and my SP did the same for a 10 round aggregate. He did keep a couple of targets and the first was .36" for 3 rounds at 50 yards and the 2nd at less than .8" for 5 rounds. All of the loads from the 16" barrel lost a good bit of velocity in comparison to the data that mostly came from 24" barrels and I used .223 Rem. data for .5.56 NATO Start Charges. With the 55 gr. Horn FMJ-BTw/c, TAC produced the highest velocity at 2897 FPS for 10 rounds. W748 was 2nd at 2823 FPS with X-Terminator 3rd and those loads were in mixed cases where the TAC and 748 loads were in once-fired WIN brass. The X-T loads were the cleanest and most accurate.

Then we moved on to 100 yards with the SIERRA 65 gr. SPBT. But, before we did I shot a SIERRA 65 gr. SPBT into water jugs at 50 yards. It did pretty well and right with my acceptable handgun defense loads at 12' that penetrate through 2 jugs and well into the 3rd. I was expecting the 65 gr. SPBT to be more accurate but it really wasn't. Also had a chrono SNAFU that was totally my fault. We were at the local range where we haven't shot for a couple of years and the shooting tables are covered so I wasn't paying much attention to the sun. With one string of 5 shots each the chrono only gave me stats for a 7 round string and since I haven't changed the battery since I bought it, I suspected the battery might be an issue but I went on with my 5 shot string. Never looked at the chrono because my sight picture had been pretty decent while our rest throughout was not. Then I found out that not 1 shot had registered a velocity, got a spare battery out of my shooting bag to change it and saw that we were under a cloud. This was with W748, so d-u-m-b-a-s-s goes ahead and puts in the new battery for my SP and his 5 shots averaged 2763 FPS with ES at 18 with an SD of 6! Groups weren't great and my the last of the day was 5 shots printing 1.2". Overall, X-T was the cleanest and most accurate again with the difference in velocity between it and TAC being moot. X-T is about 1 grain faster burning than TAC.

Also, the new bullets arrived. The Sierra 77 gr. HPBTw/c that Black Hills loads in the Mk 262 Mod 1 that's proven the most lethal in Afghanistan as far as 5.56 NATO in the past couple of years. The other is the Hornady 75 gr. BTHP-Match w/c known as the T2 which is used in the TAP LEOnly load. The personal defense version is 150 FPS slower. I'll be working up to 5.56 NATO type loads and expect excellent accuracy. My goal is to beat the .48" - 3 round test target (55 gr. Hornady's) with 5 rounds at 100 yards. I won't be stopping to clean the barrel much next time out and will probably see how many rounds it takes before accuracy starts degrading.


Okay, now for the .45 experimental stuff. I loaded BulletWorks 200 gr. SWCs at 1.240" with 4.6 grs of WST. Accuracy was decent and they were very soft shooting, but 4.7 grs. is better. Velocity was 807 FPS with SD at 13. I've now been at 4.5, 4.6, 4.7, 4.9 and 5.0 grs. of WST with 200 gr. SWCs and 4.7 grs. with the MBC 200 gr. SWC (same mould) avg'd 823 FPS with SD at 10. So, I've saved the best for last where my next loads will be 4.8 grs.

The experiment with 3N37 and 230 gr. ZERO JHPs was about like using Silhouette in .45 ACP. Good velocity, decent accuracy, uniformity not so much.

Now I'll close with my first .45 ACP SPP loads and of course I used True Blue for that. Got lucky because the threshold for that bullet is about 825 FPS and I dropped the charge to 7.2 grs. My highest chrono'd velocity was 824 FPS and ES would have been 21 FPS except for my last shot that was low at 785 FPS, but still giving an SD of 10.5. So, I deleted the low velocity shot for 9 rounds, ES was at 21 and SD at 7. This stuff is magic, but the .45 ACP loves it in particular. It might not be the powder for 200 gr. SWCs at 800 FPS, but at a little higher velocity it's more accurate than the "Bunnyfart" powders and will give SD's below 10! It is particularly useful in my 200 gr. RNFP loads where I'm trying to replicate the feel of factory defense loads. For accuracy and ballistic uniformity using JHPs . . . Forgetaboutit! ;)
 
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