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Is an AR the right choice for me?

11K views 44 replies 23 participants last post by  crawdad 
#1 ·
I'll get to the point, i want a multi purpose firearm.

-I need to be able to use it whitetail and mountain goat hunting,
-I need it to be reasonably affordable (also taking ammo into consideration, reloading is possible in the future) preferably the gun would be under $750
-i need it to be 110% reliable in a defense situation (if i'm going to spend more than $500 on a firearm it better be reliable for defense) this also means i'd prefer a shorter barrel and lighter weight while still maintaining hunting accuracy out to about 100 yards
-As i have no experience assembling firearms i would need a book or manual of some form to walk me through it
-and lastly i need it to be legal for me as a civilian to own and use.

notes on what I've researched:
-As seen in the title, i understand the AR may not be the way to go
-I've heard mixed reviews of DPMS
-I've only heard that Remington's AR models are really stiff and tend to jam
I am ignorant as to building an AR myself

thank you in advance for any and all help or advice
-jazzplayer9
 
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#2 ·
sounds ok to me. an A2 is pretty inexpensive and is plenty accurate to 100 yds even with iron sights. .223 is fine for whitetail and goats. They are plenty reliable unless you fill them with mud or never clean them.

Do you live in the US? They are legal here. I think some states put some stupid restrictions on stuff like threaded barrels, but I live in Indiana, so they don't care.

Do you want one?
a) Yes
b) No


If you picked a), then buy one.
 
#4 ·
From reading your post, you put the hunting aspect at the top of your list...I would say "no" to an AR and go look for a decent lightweight bolt action rifle with a variable scope. Would recommend a .338 type caliber for single shot kills and for SD incase you run into a bear on your way up to the upper terrain.
 
#5 ·
IMO, the A2 has the right balance of simplicity and ergonomics. full-length buttstock, attached carry handle, 20" barrel.



Most people (me included) don't need rails, scopes, collapsible stocks, and crap like that. the rifle pictured above handles and shoots well.

Could be that I just spent a lot of time with the M16A2 and I'm prejudiced against the A4 and M4 versions because they're not balanced as well. I carried all 3 at different times.
 
#6 ·
From reading your post, you put the hunting aspect at the top of your list...I would say "no" to an AR and go look for a decent lightweight bolt action rifle with a variable scope. Would recommend a .338 type caliber for single shot kills and for SD incase you run into a bear on your way up to the upper terrain.
I guess I'd agree with your point that the AR is not the "ultimate" hunting rifle, but it is a heck of a lot better for hunting than a .338 bolt action is for defense, which is the other capacity it needs to fill.
 
#7 ·
you might want to check out a Stag Model 1

Stag Arms

it's more compact than my A2, and has iron sights, but if you wanted to put a 1-4 scope on for hunting that wouldn't be a bad idea. You could keep the iron sights on for defense.
 
#8 ·
I guess I'd agree with your point that the AR is not the "ultimate" hunting rifle, but it is a heck of a lot better for hunting than a .338 bolt action is for defense, which is the other capacity it needs to fill.
When the OP mentioned "goat" hunting, it made me think about the last time I was up past the timberline. The mountain slopes are barren with a lot of wind shear from the winds coming down and across the canyons. The heavier bullets seem to work best for shots 300 to 500 yards. The guide I was with told me when we see one to "pin" its shoulders so it wouldn't drop over a cliff from a wound. So I guess, the OP may have too broad of range of needs.

FWIW...I never got a shot at a goat, all the ones we saw didn't make the measurements..:oops:
 
#9 ·
thanks for the replies all, as far as bolt action rifles go I am borrowing my dads ruger 30-06 but it does not satisfy the defense need, since it's a short term loan i'd prefer the one buy fix all =) as far as caliber goes, i've never shot anything other than 243 win. and 30-06 is the 223 really reliable for one shot kill on a white tail buck? (i only ever shoot inside of 150 yards, stalk hunting rather than stand or blind hunting)

again, thank you all for the replies,

jazzplayer9
 
#10 ·
I personally would not hunt animals as large or larger than deer and goats with a .223. Not to say it can't be done ethically or that .223 is absolutely bad for medium sized animals but larger, more powerful rounds give you more range and their increased power translates into a larger margin of error in accuracy that will still produce an ethical kill.

Why not an AR-10? It's an AR upscaled to fire .308 instead of .223. Beyond your hunting requirements, I say for the other things you need a rifle then an AR in .223 is a good choice. Don't worry about your skills building one if you want to save money. There are tons of resources and people on the net you will hold your hand through the process if you decide to go that route.
 
#12 ·
.223 Is the smallest round you can hunt with but would I hunt anything larger then a fox with it? No.

I'm sure people hunt with a ar-15 system, but I'm sorry that's just dumb. I love my Ar-15s to death but I would never hunt unless I didn't have any other larger rifle. The AR weapon system by nature is not a optimal hunting platform unless its really small game.And if your talking stopping power; even at 100yards its not coming much faster then a paintball. Defence on the other hand they are great. But I would much rather grab a pistol, or a shotgun for deference inside of my home.

My advice for you would be a AK-47 type weapon system, and heres why.
- They always work.
-The ammo is some of the lowest prices of any ammo out there.
-The round is huge compared to a 5.56
- If you spend decent money (ar-15 amounts) on a AK weapon system, your groups will be on par of that of most ARs.. with knockdown power you can count on.
 
#13 ·
thanks for the replies all, as far as bolt action rifles go I am borrowing my dads ruger 30-06 but it does not satisfy the defense need, since it's a short term loan i'd prefer the one buy fix all =) as far as caliber goes, i've never shot anything other than 243 win. and 30-06 is the 223 really reliable for one shot kill on a white tail buck? (i only ever shoot inside of 150 yards, stalk hunting rather than stand or blind hunting)

again, thank you all for the replies,

jazzplayer9
If you can place your round with precision, a proper .223 bullet will drop a whitetail in it's tracks. My buddy has dropped several, one shot in the boiler room, that immediately went down.

However, if you aren't able to place your round exactly where you want it, .223 may not be a good choice.
 
#14 ·
.223 Is the smallest round you can hunt with but would I hunt anything larger then a fox with it? No.

I'm sure people hunt with a ar-15 system, but I'm sorry that's just dumb. I love my Ar-15s to death but I would never hunt unless I didn't have any other larger rifle. The AR weapon system by nature is not a optimal hunting platform unless its really small game.And if your talking stopping power; even at 100yards its not coming much faster then a paintball. Defence on the other hand they are great. But I would much rather grab a pistol, or a shotgun for deference inside of my home.

My advice for you would be a AK-47 type weapon system, and heres why.
- They always work.
-The ammo is some of the lowest prices of any ammo out there.
-The round is huge compared to a 5.56
- If you spend decent money (ar-15 amounts) on a AK weapon system, your groups will be on par of that of most ARs.. with knockdown power you can count on.
Sorry, but you're wrong on that one. Placed properly, a well constructed .223 round will work just fine against up whitetail sized game. And you aren't going to find many AK's that can outshoot an AR.

As for the bullet not being much faster at 100 yards than a paintball--sorry, but that's so wrong, you really shouldn't even consider giving advice here until you actually know what you're talking about.
 
#15 ·
I have been pondering this question for myself as well. Just was never sure where to post it.

On one side I have the AR-15 style and fanboys and whatnot and on the other you have the precision shooters with their bolt actions. I guess I know eventually I will have both, but which to get first.

Lately I have been leaning towards a Remington 700 SPS Varmit in .308 ($75 rebate going on) and then later, I figure I can jump into the AR style carbines and get a 5.56.

I am not going hunting, so what I want is a gun that will let me thread the needle at 200-500 yards and I figure that will be fun to learn to do.

I think the simple fact that you want to have some sort of "defense" with the weapon would mean you want a semi auto and you see plenty of videos online with people hunting with AR style rifles so you pretty much answered your question. My question is what are you trying to defend from with a AR? Up close, Ill use my pistols, if the threat is a zombie running at the house from 200 yards or more, then I see a rifle making more sense.
 
#17 ·
LOL as far as defense goes, no I'm not worried about zombies =) and I already have my Kahr pm9 (black rose edition) i've had a few minor run ins and found that holding my (empty) rifle intimidated the intruder far more than a pistol has in the past (3 occasions total) i'm just thankful I've never had to fire, but I'd like to have the semi auto capability if I had to fire, additionally... its just plain fun to shoot semi auto =)
 
#18 ·
for deer and goats at 100 yards a 223 is fine. BUT i wouldnt suggest shooting any further than that, and you also cannot hunt anything larger than that. pigs shake off my .270 and my 7mm mag rounds like they are nothing, shooting a 223 at them is like using a pellet gun. if you are looking at a hunting rifle i really suggest a 308 minimum, just because a 223 has zero flexibility. there are several nicer rounds you can chamber in the AR like the 6.5 grendel and the 6.8spc but ammo is more pricey than 223 stuff.

my suggestion, buy a decent bolt action in a REAL cartridge for hunting (308 at minimum IMO), and assemble yourself an AR later to play with. howa hogues, remington 700, weatherbys, etc are all only a few hundred bucks and fine rifles off the shelf.


ALSO, you never listed your state. semi automatics are not allowed everywhere to hunt with. some states have minimum cartridge requirements higher than 223 also IIRC. so a 223 ar15 may not even be legal for you to hunt game animals with.
 
#19 ·
I'm in idaho, so as far as I know I'm good to hunt with almost anything short of a howitzer =) I'm hoping to avoid purchasing both i'd rather end up spending 1-1.5k on one firearm than 2+k on two (this is figuring in costs of customizations, upgrades and initial ammo)
 
#20 ·
Sorry, but you're wrong on that one. Placed properly, a well constructed .223 round will work just fine against up whitetail sized game. And you aren't going to find many AK's that can outshoot an AR.

As for the bullet not being much faster at 100 yards than a paintball--sorry, but that's so wrong, you really shouldn't even consider giving advice here until you actually know what you're talking about.

Lol since I take it you have no true experience other then being the all knowing forum poster I'd tell you to try hunting dear with it, but you probly don't see the sun too much so that's out of the question. The next best thing you could do would be to look at some charts, but again that maybe to much for you to handle seeing as how your IQ compairs with sea crustaceans. But give it a shot anyways...
 
#21 ·
for deer and goats at 100 yards a 223 is fine. BUT i wouldnt suggest shooting any further than that, and you also cannot hunt anything larger than that. pigs shake off my .270 and my 7mm mag rounds like they are nothing, shooting a 223 at them is like using a pellet gun. if you are looking at a hunting rifle i really suggest a 308 minimum, just because a 223 has zero flexibility. there are several nicer rounds you can chamber in the AR like the 6.5 grendel and the 6.8spc but ammo is more pricey than 223 stuff.

my suggestion, buy a decent bolt action in a REAL cartridge for hunting (308 at minimum IMO), and assemble yourself an AR later to play with. howa hogues, remington 700, weatherbys, etc are all only a few hundred bucks and fine rifles off the shelf.


ALSO, you never listed your state. semi automatics are not allowed everywhere to hunt with. some states have minimum cartridge requirements higher than 223 also IIRC. so a 223 ar15 may not even be legal for you to hunt game animals with.
^^^Solid advice^^^
 
#22 ·
Lol since I take it you have no true experience other then being the all knowing forum poster I'd tell you to try hunting dear with it, but you probly don't see the sun too much so that's out of the question. The next best thing you could do would be to look at some charts, but again that maybe to much for you to handle seeing as how your IQ compairs with sea crustaceans. But give it a shot anyways...
I've got firsthand experience taking deer (it's d-e-e-r, btw) with .223--from a handgun, at that. A 55gr Barnes TSX was one shot, one drop, after about a 10' hop. I've seen deer run (a LOT) farther after taking a 12ga slug...if you're not capable of properly placing the round, I guess it's fine to have to compensate with a larger caliber--but don't project your inadequacies onto others.

As for the charts, I'd love for you to post one that shows a .223 bullet moving at the same velocity of a paintball...if you can find it.
 
#23 ·
I've got firsthand experience taking deer (it's d-e-e-r, btw) with .223--from a handgun, at that. A 55gr Barnes TSX was one shot, one drop, after about a 10' hop. I've seen deer run (a LOT) farther after taking a 12ga slug...if you're not capable of properly placing the round, I guess it's fine to have to compensate with a larger caliber--but don't project your inadequacies onto others.

As for the charts, I'd love for you to post one that shows a .223 bullet moving at the same velocity of a paintball...if you can find it.
Hey, he's got to know what he's talking about. After all, he has a Spike's Fake Can for his AR. It's cool.
 
#24 ·
.223 Is the smallest round you can hunt with but would I hunt anything larger then a fox with it? No.

I'm sure people hunt with a ar-15 system, but I'm sorry that's just dumb. I love my Ar-15s to death but I would never hunt unless I didn't have any other larger rifle. The AR weapon system by nature is not a optimal hunting platform unless its really small game.And if your talking stopping power; even at 100yards its not coming much faster then a paintball. Defence on the other hand they are great. But I would much rather grab a pistol, or a shotgun for deference inside of my home.

My advice for you would be a AK-47 type weapon system, and heres why.
- They always work.
-The ammo is some of the lowest prices of any ammo out there.
-The round is huge compared to a 5.56
- If you spend decent money (ar-15 amounts) on a AK weapon system, your groups will be on par of that of most ARs.. with knockdown power you can count on.
Ive never seen so much misinformation and lack of knowledge in one post before. Im reporting you as a troll.
 
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