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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
We have recently experienced 2 accidents during an IDPA event where the shooter shot himself on the draw. While I expect most ND are caused by a finger on the trigger when it shouldn't be.

In both accidents the shooter was using a 1911 in a Serpa locking holster. While discussing these accidents, I have seem multiple comments that the 1911 is just unsafe. Somebody even posted the police officer that 1911s were unsafe.

I am not a gunsmith, so would like some opinion. Is the 1911 actually unsafe when compared to others like the Glock?
 

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Unless something is seriously wrong, a 1911 will not discharge on drawing without a finger on the trigger. These guys need to review their procedures. I have something functionally identical on my hip right now, and am not alarmed. I've had it for over 10 years without incident.
 

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The 1911 is no more dangerous than any other type handgun out there. The problem is the holster. It's a really bad design because most use there trigger finger to release the lock and maintain that pressure during the draw. As soon as it clears the holster, BANG!

But that being said the safety shouldn't be taken off until out of the holster and on target!!!

I'm guessing the reason you don't see these type of accidents on other handguns is due to the longer and heavier trigger pull.
 

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Keep your finger off the trigger and safety on when drawing and you won't have a problem. I have a Serpa for my 1911's and when you push the release tab and draw, it indexes your finger on the frame just below the slide. Shooter error, plain and simple
 

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I'm going to jump on the bandwagon with Mr Evilwrench if they were unsafe we, well our figurative fathers would have stopped buying them over a hundred years ago and the company's would be bankrupt and a distant memory of failure.

I have no intention of taking mine off right now either.
 

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It sounds like these guys are disengaging their safeties before they clear the holster and not keeping their fingers clear of the trigger. Two mistakes that add up to a big problem.

That being said, the 1911 is a safe design, but in my opinion it is less forgiving of trigger finger mistakes. Th light weight, quick breaking triggers they are known for are good for causing NDs when proper safety procedures are not followed.
 

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Your brain is the only safety you can trust.

People who shoot themselves during competition, should take a break from their activities, and decide if first place is worth the leak ;)
 

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Keep your finger off the trigger and safety on when drawing and you won't have a problem. I have a Serpa for my 1911's and when you push the release tab and draw, it indexes your finger on the frame just below the slide. Shooter error, plain and simple
Ditto. Ditto. Ditto. The Blackhawk Serpa is designed to have your finger indexing on the slide, as it should be until your on target. Period. There is no argument to that. Plain and simple shooter error.
 

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The problem is the holster. The Serpa holster is banned by many firearms instructors in their classes because of this. Technically the finger is not pointed at the trigger when releasing the firearm from the restraint, but the action of the inward pushing of the finger continues through the draw stroke and more frequently than is desirable it does end up inside the trigger guard. Furthermore, the Serpa is prone to jamming if dirt or debris get inside the mechanism, such as during grappling on the ground. It is a design that most should avoid, IMO.

CX
 

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The problem is the holster. The Serpa holster is banned by many firearms instructors in their classes because of this.

Including this instructor. I personally know of three people wounded because their trigger fingers slipped off the Serpa and onto the trigger. I do not like the design of that holster even a little bit.
 

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Agreed.

While I stil have a serpa deep in my holster box, it's never worn anymore...I'm trying to decide if I can sell it in good conscience.

Odds are the shooters were also disengaging the safety before their sights were on the target...more shooter error.

As for the cop who said it's unsafe...well, he wouldn't be the first moron to wear a badge.

There is no such thing as a safe gun. Just safe users.
 

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nope, it's more like the holster & training. Even Chris Cerino (Runner up in Top Shot) shot himself using a Serpa. You also have to question the holster if training classes don't allow them too.


Firearms training officer accidentally shoots himself | cleveland.com

These are a few quotes from Chris

"We were running some timed drills and I was working with a newly acquired Blackhawk Serpa holster. I had some reservations about any holster where you use your trigger finger to release the gun. I had been struggling with the holster as I have had Safariland holsters"

"Add me to the list of losers who can't properly function a serpa"
" I do have reservations about using your trigger finger for anything but pulling a trigger. I would venture to say that there are plenty more incidents not reported. I will not condemn the holster"

Picture of injury can be found HERE
 

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nope, it's more like the holster & training. Even Chris Cerino (Runner up in Top Shot) shot himself using a Serpa. You also have to question the holster if training classes don't allow them too.

" I do have reservations about using your trigger finger for anything but pulling a trigger. I would venture to say that there are plenty more incidents not reported. I will not condemn the holster"
I find Chris' statement contradictory. On one hand he acknowledges the holster design is likely responsible for many incidents and yet does not condemn the design. Chris and Quack seems to believe good training will fix the problem?

While training can reduce some of the risk inherent to the really bad idea of having the trigger finger doing something very similar to engaging the trigger at an inappropriate time during the draw stroke, under stress all bets are off. I would hate to lose a gunfight because I shot myself!

This holster is entirely too risky to use. I predict the Serpa will eventually be withdrawn from the market under the shadow of multiple law suits.

CX
 

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I find Chris' statement contradictory. On one hand he acknowledges the holster design is likely responsible for many incidents and yet does not condemn the design. Chris and Quack seems to believe good training will fix the problem?

While training can reduce some of the risk inherent to the really bad idea of having the trigger finger doing something very similar to engaging the trigger at an inappropriate time during the draw stroke, under stress all bets are off. I would hate to lose a gunfight because I shot myself!

This holster is entirely too risky to use. I predict the Serpa will eventually be withdrawn from the market under the shadow of multiple law suits.

CX
my answer should've been 2 parts...

my reference to the training part is not to disengage the thumb safety on the 1911 until it's on target.

the holster is just a bad design IMO. Chris was using a M&P9 with the SERPA
 
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