[dearta223]

Just bought an XD9 and I heard a rumor that 115 grain is not good to shoot with it, is this true? also is a zinc plated steel case ok also? any and all help is appreciated. thanks.

 

[CdnInAz]

vast majority of rounds through my XD9 have been 115 grain - mostly my reloads. Federal FMJ are about best factory for the money, and they are 115 gr.

I have not shot many steel casings because I reload, but steel are fine

BTW, see this was your first post so I shall be first to say WELCOME to a great forum. You might like to head over to new member area and introduce yourself.

 

[jimdanos]

Shouldn't be a problem. My XDm loves them like a kid loves candy. and

Welcome from Louisiana

 

[Cuda66]

Yep, 115's are great for plinking ammo; and the zinc-plated steel will work just fine...in fact, all steel rounds will work just fine. The uninformed will try and tell you that it'll damage your extractor, damage your chamber, damage your bore, kick your dog, and talk bad about your momma...but it just ain't true.

For defensive rounds, though...heavier is better. There's lots of threads here in the ammo forum regarding carry loads, doing a quick search will give you plenty of information...but, here's a great read on what is good carry ammo and more importantly, why: Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

And welcome to the forum.

 

[Cuda66]

there are so many people shooting a wide variety of different rounds. as for shooting at a range the kind of rounds you shoot should be taken with a grain of salt. many simply choose whatever is the cheapest.

when it comes to SD or HD thats when others will become more assertive as to what they choose. try a couple of different boxes. I myself use winchester pdx. I do feel jacketed hollow points have a very minimal difference between eachother.

I think with the right round placement they will all kill just the same.

You're probably right; however, when it comes to employing defensive ammo, we aren't looking to kill our threat; we just want them to stop doing whatever it was that made us decide it was necessary to shoot them...and stop as rapidly as possible.

In that area, the area of a rapid stop...not all JHP's are created equal. Some are clearly superior to others.

Which is why I added the link in my earlier post; it gives the reasoning as to why certain rounds are superior to others.

 

[Cuda66]

I see where your coming from. However would you rather eliminate the threat completely with a center mass shot, or give the perp the chance to return fire with a leg shot?

I myself would not prefer a shoot out in my apartment.

If you think any center mass shot is a guaranteed stop...you are dead wrong. And if you think they are automatically fatal--just as wrong.

There are two ways to reliably and rapidly incapacitate an opponent--any opponent. The first is to hit the CNS--Central Nervous System--high on the spine/medulla. This is like hitting a moving golf ball with a piece of clothesline attached--in short, not something you'll likely be doing when adrenaline kicks in on overload.

The second is hypovolemic shock, aka exsanguination or bleed out; when the blood pressure drops low enough, everyone goes down. The way we get this is to make holes--the bigger the better, and the deeper the better (to get to the blood bearing structures, which are DEEP in the body); the FBI has a criteria of 12", which accounts for the possibility of having to go through an arm first (quite likely, if your opponent is threatening you with a weapon). Not all rounds are capable of doing this, especially after going through a barrier--like clothing.

Which is why not all JHP's are created equal.

So...a bit of an apology to the OP for sidetracking the thread...but, then again, I probably just a saved him a ton of searching.

 

[Cuda66]

Very good. Now you're getting technical. Even though you're straying from the original post I see you know your stuff.

With everything said and done. It all comes down to eliminating the threat. The targeted points you mentioned seem almost impossible to hit in a high tension situation. But if actually done then I would think the receiver would suffer greatly.

I thought you would prefer to better the situation with minimal damage to the other person.

How bout we just say to shoot him in the head. Yeah?

See my comments on CNS hits.

I practice "Thoracic Triangle" shots; imagine a triangle whose points are the nipples and adam's apple. Get rounds in there, and get them deep enough, and you're gonna hit something good; heart, pulmonary arteries, aorta, vena cava, trachea, jugular & carotid...all are located in there. And a conisderably larger and less mobile target than the head.

That doesn't mean I neglect my Mozambique drills, however.

A phrase that I read somewhere--and agree wholeheartedly with--is "Shot placement is king, but penetration is queen". My addendum to it is "A wide wound channel is an ace in the hole".

 

[dearta223]

Thank you guys for all the help and great advice, I really do appreciate it... and thank you for the warm welcome.

 

[Ragnar]

Welcome aboard.

Most of my range shooting is done with 115gr and no problems at all.

 

[Vir]

To the original poster: Yes 115 grain weight is a fine weight to carry. There will always be the argument that bigger and hotter loads are always the best just as there are those that believe only a 45 can stop a threat. But I digress as that was not the question asked in this topic.

 

[agalindo]

Actually it's not about bigger it's about heaver. 115gr is too light for carry, 124gr is the lightest I would go unless it's the corbon dpx.

 

[XD9tacticalGlock17L]

I shoot an xd9 tac and the 115gr shoots 2" low than the 124gr @ 25yards. But I just aim on top of my FPoA and it's all good...

 

[Vir]

Actually it's not about bigger it's about heaver. 115gr is too light for carry, 124gr is the lightest I would go unless it's the corbon dpx.

See heavier load...
I have yet to find anyone willing to stand in front of me and let me shoot them with a 22lr much less a 9 mm no matter what grain weight I am firing.

My answer was my opinion for the op I thought I had made that pretty clear. While I may stand alone in saying that I pray I never have to use my weapon in self-defense are defense of another I know that 115 grain while a light round will do what I need it to do in a time of need.

 

[agalindo]

That "stand in front of x is an idiotic argument" I don't want to stand in front of a bb gun but it doesn't make a bb gun a good choice. How is it that you know it will do what you want it to do? Seen any tests to prove this? FBI uses 147gr any LEO agencies that still use 9mm use 124gr or above, they do so for a reason. Test and Officer involved shooting prove one thing 115gr is too light to do the job when you take into account that sometimes bad guys don't give you a perfect unobstructed face on shot.

 

[Cuda66]

See heavier load...
I have yet to find anyone willing to stand in front of me and let me shoot them with a 22lr much less a 9 mm no matter what grain weight I am firing.

My answer was my opinion for the op I thought I had made that pretty clear. While I may stand alone in saying that I pray I never have to use my weapon in self-defense are defense of another I know that 115 grain while a light round will do what I need it to do in a time of need.

You know, I've found that the "X must be a good round because nobody wants to get shot by it" is the argument put forth by folks who don't know much about bullet performance. I figure this is the case here.

Your 115gr JHP is likely not going to penetrate deep enough to hit vitals in anything other than a perfect, square on shot. And I hate to break it to you, but real life events rarely look like silhouette targets.

I highly recommend you read this: Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

It will challenge your (mistaken) preconceptions about how bullets work--and if you're not comfortable with that, you may just want to keep your head in the sand.

 

[Vir]

Part III. FBI Ammunition Tests Data:
9mm 115 grain Winchester Ranger JHP +P+, 1/9/98:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

S&W M5906​

4" 1320 fps 9.55" 0.53" 10.15" 0.65"​

9mm 115 grain 3-D JHP, 1/5/98:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

S&W M5906​

4" 1178 fps 11.60" 0.54" 13.95" 0.48"​

9mm 115 grain Remington JHP +P+, 11/10/97:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 1221 fps 10.80" 0.63" 10.90" 0.62"​

9mm 115 grain CCI/Speer Gold Dot JHP, 3/6/97:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 1259 fps 12.35" 0.67" 22.15" 0.40"​

9mm 115 grain CCI/Speer Gold Dot JHP, 1/29/93:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 1197 fps 12.80" .67" 22.65" .44"​

9mm 115 grain CorBon JHP +P, 9/11/91:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 1317 fps 8.95" 0.52" 10.20" 0.61"​

9mm 115 grain Federal JHP +P+, 4/10/90:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 1237 fps 11.25" .53" 10.60" .62"​

9mm 115 grain Winchester Silvertip JHP, 2/14/89:
Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 1091 fps 10.05" 0.63" 11.80" 0.58"

 

[Vir]

9mm 124 grain CCI/Speer Gold Dot JHP +P, 4/17/97:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 1223 fps 13.40" 0.68" 20.25" 0.53"​

9mm 124 grain Speer Gold Dot JHP, 3/3/97:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 1116 fps 11.80" 0.69" 22.00" 0.36"​

9mm 124 grain CCI/Speer Gold Dot JHP, 6/27/95:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

S&W M5946​

4" 1202 17.05 ? 19.00 ?​

9mm 124 grain Federal HydraShok JHP, 6/27/95:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

S&W M5946​

4" 1159 fps 13.35" ? 13.10" ?​

9mm 124 grain Remington JHP, 1/5/93:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 1109 fps 12.45" .60" 13.70" .57"​

9mm 124 grain PMC/Eldorado Starfire JHP, 2/29/92:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 1118 fps 10.65" .63" 20.10" .41"​

9mm 124 grain CorBon XTP JHP, 2/29/92:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 1123 fps 13.95" .56" 18.30" .46"​

9mm 127 grain Winchester SXT JHP +P+, 6/26/95:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

S&W M5946​

4" 1210 fps 13.95" ? 19.80" ?​

9mm 147 grain Federal Tactical HydraShok JHP, 7/12/96:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25 935 fps 13.60" .60" 16.05" .52"​

9mm 147 grain Federal HydraShok JHP, 12/16/95:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 942 fps 12.90" ? 15.90" ?​

9mm 147 grain Federal Hi-Shok JHP, 6/27/95:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

S&W M5946​

4" 985 fps 13.15" ? 19.00" ?​

9mm 147 grain CCI/Speer Gold Dot JHP, 2/2/95:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 945 fps 16.55" ? 18.20" ?​

9mm 147 grain Winchester Ranger SXT JHP, 2/1/95:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 918 fps 15.80" ? 22.85" ?​

9mm 147 grain Golden Saber JHP, 1/10/95:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 949 fps 16.10" ? 16.80" ?​

9mm 147 grain Remington JHP, 1/9/95:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 1024 fps 16.20" ? 17.35" ?​

9mm 147 grain Federal HydraShok JHP, 1/3/95:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 944 fps 17.65" ? 18.05" ?​

9mm 147 grain Federal HydraShok JHP, 12/28/94:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 943 fps 13.35" ? 15.75" ?​

9mm 147 grain Winchester Black Talon JHP, 5/28/92:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 946 fps 14.85" .60" 16.35" .61"​

9mm 147 grain Remington JHP, 7/17/91

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 987 fps 18.15" .51" 15.95" .59"​

9mm 147 grain Hornady XTP JHP, 3/28/91:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

S&W M659​

4" 918 fps 22.10" .44" 20.50" .46"​

9mm 147 grain Federal HydraShok JHP, 11/27/90 (Marlin M9):

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

Marlin M9​

16.5" 995 fps 21.35" 0.37" 15.60" 0.60"​

9mm 147 grain Winchester Silvertip JHP, 10/31/89:
Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 902 fps 14.60" 0.53 18.10" 0.47"

 

[Vir]

I too can pull up data. As for me being wrong about delusional personal choice I'll stick with what I have chosen which are one of these two:
4.25" 1197 fps 12.80" .67" 22.65" .44" 9mm 115 grain CorBon JHP +P, 9/11/91:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 1317 fps 8.95" 0.52" 10.20" 0.61"​

9mm 115 grain Federal JHP +P+, 4/10/90:

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity

Bare Gelatin ​

Clothed Gelatin ​

Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion

SIG P226​

4.25" 1237 fps 11.25" .53" 10.60" .62"



​

I did my research I made my choice and I stake my life on it everyday I carry.

 

[agalindo]

FBI protocol call for a MINIMUM of 12" of penetration also along with penetration you want consistent expansion.
Protocol calls for more that just bare gel and clothed gel. Car glass, sheet metal, wall boards, and plywood that lighter bullet doesn't do well on these.

 

[Vir]

FBI protocol call for a MINIMUM of 12" of penetration also along with penetration you want consistent expansion.
Protocol calls for more that just bare gel and clothed gel. Car glass, sheet metal, wall boards, and plywood that lighter bullet doesn't do well on these.

I call call up data showing that a 115 grain 9 mm also passed through 6 sheets of sheet rock and partially through the 7th if you would like. As for shooting through glass and sheet metal I was trained not to shoot at moving targets such as a car...my department frowns on that type of shooting since a 2,000 pound car with a dead driver is more dangerous than a single round.