That's a lot of variation if that's all from the bullets. If that variation is affecting seating depth then it could be affecting pressure and velocity which may have an impact on consistency. Hopefully you aren't loading hot.
Inconsistent AOL
Loading some 9mm winchester FMJRN. I got a recipe from Hoddgdon for CFE pistol for 115 grain bullet 5.3 grains starting with a coal of 1.1245. Because of the variation in bullet (cheap Bullets) my COAL varied from 1.185 to 1.125. Anyone see a problem?
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According to hodgdon max is 5.9That's a lot of variation if that's all from the bullets. If that variation is affecting seating depth then it could be affecting pressure and velocity which may have an impact on consistency. Hopefully you aren't loading hot.
Correction! 1.1185 to 1.1245
That's nothing unless you're hugging the top end with an über fast powder.
AOL was inconsistent years ago, that's why I quit them.
Sorry, couldn't resist. :snark:
Carry on.
Sorry, couldn't resist. :snark:
Carry on.
Way different! I think you are good with a variation of that size. Considering they are round nose, guessing they are plinking or gun game rounds?Correction! 1.1185 to 1.1245
FWIW, I just made up test loads for 124g plated rounds. I went from 5.0 to 5.4. I will be shooting through 4.5 and 5.25 XDm's for practice and USPSA. I was very, very happy with the consistent metering. My Dillon had within .04 without fail. I would say as consistent as Silhouette.
Lol, come back it's OAL!AOL was inconsistent years ago, that's why I quit them.
Sorry, couldn't resist. :snark:
Carry on.
Hole punching!Way different! I think you are good with a variation of that size. Considering they are round nose, guessing they are plinking or gun game rounds?
most inconsistency in bullets is above the ogive. most bullets of same type are pretty consistent from base to ogive. get you a die set that has a seater stem that only contacts the ogive, thus eliminating the inconsistency in the bullets by contacting the ogive when seating. Cheaper Lee dies do this. or a lot of the more expensive die sets also provide this improved seating method.
I use Lee diesmost inconsistency in bullets is above the ogive. most bullets of same type are pretty consistent from base to ogive. get you a die set that has a seater stem that only contacts the ogive, thus eliminating the inconsistency in the bullets by contacting the ogive when seating. Cheaper Lee dies do this. or a lot of the more expensive die sets also provide this improved seating method.
unscrew the top of the die then, take out your seater stem. put a bullet into the stem and see where it contacts the bullet surface at. if it contacts the bullet tip you may be able to upgrade the stem or modify it to fit that bullet so that it contacts it further down towards a more consistent area, at the ogive or below.
typically hollow points are more consistent bullets in length bc they lack the inconsistent bullet tip
do you have a comparator set for you calipers??? measure 10 or so base to tip, then base to ogive to ensure your trouble is worth it. I'd almost guarantee that is the issue with consistency.
I use lee also, I like them. Can't beat a carbide sizer for the price. I hate lubricating cases
but yeah what Taylor said earlier , that is really negligible for most part
typically hollow points are more consistent bullets in length bc they lack the inconsistent bullet tip
do you have a comparator set for you calipers??? measure 10 or so base to tip, then base to ogive to ensure your trouble is worth it. I'd almost guarantee that is the issue with consistency.
I use lee also, I like them. Can't beat a carbide sizer for the price. I hate lubricating cases
but yeah what Taylor said earlier , that is really negligible for most part
.006" is not a gross difference, but could be smaller. Anything at or under .003 is pretty good. There are several things that contribute to OAL differences. Like MF mentions, most of the variations can be attributed to the seating die insert. Gun Gamers will do all sorts of things, including fitting epoxy or other substances into their seating die inserts to insure a good fit to the bullet nose if they notice too great a variation in OAL. Several die makers will custom make an insert to fit your bullet should you have enough of them to warrant such a step. I believe Lee is one of those. Unfortunately, variations in bullet nose dimensions will always present some differences. Another thing that can affect OAL variation occurs on progressive presses. The rotating shell plate can flex a bit from pressure required to resize a case. Variations in the expansion of those cases when fired can cause a considerable difference in the pressure required to resize them. Thus, the flexing of the shell plate can cause variations of seating depth on the other side of the shell plate as the bullet is seated at the same time another case is being resized on the other side of the shell plate. This can be minimized or nearly eliminated by using a non sticky case lube like Hornady's One Shot. This reduces the effort and pressure required to resize a case and thus cuts down on the variation of pressure on the shell plate and subsequently reduces the variation in seating on the other side. It's worth a try.
Overall, accuracy is more affected by "off center" variations than it is by small OAL ones. By this I mean that differences in thickness in jacket material from one side to the other, or by plating on plated bullets can cause rotational balance anomalies like an unbalanced tire. Differences in OAL can cause some accuracy variations because of the way the bullet is presented to the barrel's feed ramp and the hits it takes on the way in. Small denting on the nose of the bullet will cause some minor accuracy variations and gross differences to OAL will present more or less of the bullet nose to be hit while feeding, but these are not usually a big factor in pistol rounds. Yet another factor is the amount the bullet must travel to meet the rifling which is affected by OAL. If the bullet is very far away then variations in case wall thickness will allow for the bullet to be slightly off center in the bore and again cause a rotational balance difference as it enters the barrel upon firing as one side of the bullet will be hitting the bore harder than the other and resizing it slightly off center. This is minimized if the bullet is closer to the rifling, but should never touch it when chambered. Variations in case wall thickness will still be a factor, but there will be less "bullet wobble" as it meets the lands if it does not have too far to travel. Again, these things are small factors, but when you add them all up they have affects.
Overall, accuracy is more affected by "off center" variations than it is by small OAL ones. By this I mean that differences in thickness in jacket material from one side to the other, or by plating on plated bullets can cause rotational balance anomalies like an unbalanced tire. Differences in OAL can cause some accuracy variations because of the way the bullet is presented to the barrel's feed ramp and the hits it takes on the way in. Small denting on the nose of the bullet will cause some minor accuracy variations and gross differences to OAL will present more or less of the bullet nose to be hit while feeding, but these are not usually a big factor in pistol rounds. Yet another factor is the amount the bullet must travel to meet the rifling which is affected by OAL. If the bullet is very far away then variations in case wall thickness will allow for the bullet to be slightly off center in the bore and again cause a rotational balance difference as it enters the barrel upon firing as one side of the bullet will be hitting the bore harder than the other and resizing it slightly off center. This is minimized if the bullet is closer to the rifling, but should never touch it when chambered. Variations in case wall thickness will still be a factor, but there will be less "bullet wobble" as it meets the lands if it does not have too far to travel. Again, these things are small factors, but when you add them all up they have affects.
Just wanted to check to make sure they were safe! I did measure a bunch of bullets and they ranged in size difference from 0.002 to 0.006
you have a need for lube using the carbide full sizing dies???
I never even considered it with pistol cases. I've never stuck a case in a lee pistol die though either lol.
I never even considered it with pistol cases. I've never stuck a case in a lee pistol die though either lol.
Hi MF... It's not about sticking a case. It's about the smoothness of the loading operation and consistency. I loaded for years on an 650 and before that on a SDB without lube and also use carbide dies. Then I tried One Shot and would not like to be without it. The force required to size brass is exponentially reduced. Plus, like I said in my previous post, the uniformity of bullet seating on the other side of the shell plate is greatly enhanced because of the reduced pressure required on the sizing die. You won't believe it until you try it, but once you do nothing can talk you out of using the stuff. Just throw a few handfuls of clean brass into a gallon Zip Lock bag, spray for 1 second into the bag and rub them around, turn over and repeat, then dump them into the shell feeder. Magic! The other lanolin or similar lubes I have no use for. One Shot is wax based and non sticky. It does not need to be removed after the loading process and is completely dry to the touch. It leaves no residue in the gun. It also helps loading into and feeding from the magazines.you have a need for lube using the carbide full sizing dies???
I never even considered it with pistol cases. I've never stuck a case in a lee pistol die though either lol.
I use one shot when loading 9mm, not on other pistol calibers this is with carbide dies.Hi MF... It's not about sticking a case. It's about the smoothness of the loading operation and consistency. I loaded for years on an 650 and before that on a SDB without lube and also use carbide dies. Then I tried One Shot and would not like to be without it. The force required to size brass is exponentially reduced. Plus, like I said in my previous post, the uniformity of bullet seating on the other side of the shell plate is greatly enhanced because of the reduced pressure required on the sizing die. You won't believe it until you try it, but once you do nothing can talk you out of using the stuff. Just throw a few handfuls of clean brass into a gallon Zip Lock bag, spray for 1 second into the bag and rub them around, turn over and repeat, then dump them into the shell feeder. Magic! The other lanolin or similar lubes I have no use for. One Shot is wax based and non sticky. It does not need to be removed after the loading process and is completely dry to the touch. It leaves no residue in the gun. It also helps loading into and feeding from the magazines.
As you said, it makes the 9mm loading much smoother.
don
Thanks for the tip JSG. Would I need to repeat the handful in a baggie for every single casing, or do the casings that get it leave a helpful residue on the die that allows for smooth action on other, nontreated casings? In other words, do I do that every time or like five out of 100?Hi MF... It's not about sticking a case. It's about the smoothness of the loading operation and consistency. I loaded for years on an 650 and before that on a SDB without lube and also use carbide dies. Then I tried One Shot and would not like to be without it. The force required to size brass is exponentially reduced. Plus, like I said in my previous post, the uniformity of bullet seating on the other side of the shell plate is greatly enhanced because of the reduced pressure required on the sizing die. You won't believe it until you try it, but once you do nothing can talk you out of using the stuff. Just throw a few handfuls of clean brass into a gallon Zip Lock bag, spray for 1 second into the bag and rub them around, turn over and repeat, then dump them into the shell feeder. Magic! The other lanolin or similar lubes I have no use for. One Shot is wax based and non sticky. It does not need to be removed after the loading process and is completely dry to the touch. It leaves no residue in the gun. It also helps loading into and feeding from the magazines.
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