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I recently picked up a Doublestar Star 15 rifle from Bud's (model DSCCAR16). This particular model has an HBAR barrel which I believe is a chrome moly.

I was immediately bashed by some friends for two things... Not getting an M4 style barrel, and not having it chrome lined.

Chrome-Lined
I'm well aware of the proposed advantages of a chrome-lined barrel. I've experienced it first hand after already cleaning the thing after the first 40 rounds i put through it (wow, so many patch runs to get it clean!). The cleaning thing really doesn't bother me; I clean my tools after every session, regardless of how many rounds I fire through them... I take meticulous care of my arms as well- the worst that will happen is I'll be shooting in the rain from time to time.. I'm not in a jungle, but Ohio can sometimes get close to it, as it used to be mostly swamp land before it was settled. High humidity is common. Is my barrel really going to be prone to corrosion, rust, accelerated wear, etc because it's not chrome-lined? Or can I count on it to last for decades without having a problem?

HBAR
I originally chose the HBAR because of the overheating issue. It does tend to heat up slower than the other AR I have experience with that has an M4 barrel (however, it stays hot for longer!). It does feel a little heavier when carrying it around for extended periods, but it seems to help a lot with recoil. I don't get into long range shooting much; my main sight is a 1x red dot, so the claimed added accuracy of an HBAR doesn't really apply to me. I also wouldn't shoot enough rounds consecutively to even get close to the 300 rounds an HBAR allows roughly before cookoff.

I tend to do this after big purchases... Try to find every reason as to why I made a bad choice :? hah, but that's just me... What are your guys' opinions on this? I know there are a lot of people that swear by chrome-lined M4 barrels.. Just trying to figure out if I made a good choice, or if I should start shopping around for another barrel/upper that will last me for years to come...

Great rifle so far though, btw. Doublestar seems to be an underdog with a good rep.. Can't beat the rifle for under $700 after shipping and transfer fee!
 

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My humble opinion is that it's your money, and none of your "friends" business what you get with it.

With that said, I would wonder if your "friends" have an M203 mounted on their AR's.

or a Knights Masterkey.

Because that's the only REAL reason to have an M4 profile barrel. If nothing is mounted to the barrel, they're just drinking koolaid.

As for the lining, again, that's a personal choice. I don't see it as a requirement, other folks do.

My personal preference is stainless steel barrel, but is another topic altogether.
 

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I tend to do this after big purchases... Try to find every reason as to why I made a bad choice :?
Sounds to me like you're (for reasons unfathomable to me) trying post-purchase to justify the purchase, not to concede that you might have erred. ;)

Nothing wrong with your HBar. It'll last thousands of rounds...not as many thousands, as if it were chrome-lined, but thousands, nevertheless.

You've already rationalized your purchase! Shoot and enjoy! :-o

FWIW, when you replace that heavy-ass, non-chromed barrel, permit me to recommend the excellent Daniel Defense M4 chrome-lined barrel! :)
 

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All nit picking. Don't second guess yourself. Don't get mad, just practice and outshoot them if you don't already. Keep stepping the range out to 300m. That separates the men from the boys, for sure, and it is a great source of personal pride.

You take care of your guns like I do mine. If kept in your care and possession, your AR will function far longer than your friends will.

Tell them, "Don't sing it. Bring it".

One Eye Jack
 

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I asked the same question about the chrome lined barrel to MANY people. The general opinion is that it will make your barrel last longer, but how much longer is the question. The answer I got, 95% of people will never "shoot the barrel out" and many say the unlined barrel is "more" accurate. It's about as more accurate as the chrome lined is longer lasting. So it really doesn't matter which you pick, there are +'s and -'s to both.

I was told that if I clean it regularly after I shoot it will be just fine and since I clean ALL my guns immediately after I get home from the range regardless of how many rounds I shoot, I don't have any worries about that issue either.

I'm not sure about the other question. I figured it this way, I got the gun I wanted for the price I wanted. Years from now if I want another barrel, well I'll get it then. But for now I'm just fine. I'd rather spend the "barrel money" on other accessories like AMMO, RANGE TIME, an EOTech sight, sling, etc.

Enjoy!
 

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I go off of what I know...and here's what I KNOW.

A.) Notched barrels flex more than non notched or heavy. No, not to the naked eye but watch slow motion video and you'll see what I mean. John A. put it best when he made the M203 comment. I know it's currently popular to get a notched barrel but I simply do not buy into that...there's no convincing me it doesn't effect performance in the slightest when you have a giant notch taken out of the end of the barrel.

B.) I have never "shot the barrel" out of any gun I've ever had. I currently have a chrome molly RRA heavy type (not stainless, does not taper under the hand guard) barrel and it's perfectly fine to clean. Again, once something new comes along so many tend to look at anything older as garbage. I have a 60+ year old Mosin Nagant that shoots just fine, I personally guarantee you it does not have a chrome lining.





You made me chuckle a bit with your witch hunt comment. I do the same thing. I get asomething new, take it home and immediatly start researching to see if it's junk...and if you dig deep enough, you'll be able to find a bad review about damn near anything.

The new crow of AR bigot irritates the living crap out of me. Having served in the military, I can tell you the oh-so-amazing "mil spec" issue AR's wouldn't even be suitable as a fence post for most AR know-it-all's. I also get a kick out of the term "mil-sepc"..so many use it as a sign of a product being an end all be all. Let me tell you what mil spec really means...it fits bottom of the line basic military requirements. Just like crappy issued boots and MRE's...

Go enjoy your purchase brother, tell you tacticool buddies they're "Soooooo right", give them a smart ass wink and then go shooting...
 

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Doublestar makes a great rifle, i would not worry about it. I was going to get the ds as my first ar but got lucky on a spikes deal, ds is great for the money.
 

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[quoteFWIW, when you replace that heavy-ass, non-chromed barrel, permit me to recommend the excellent Daniel Defense M4 chrome-lined barrel! :smile:][/quote]

I would do that and change out the lower parts kit and the bolt at a minimum if you want it for anything other than a weekend plinker. If you think you might use it for anything more or might want to trust your life to it. Do the above mentioned.

Also wouldnt hurt to read this. Comparison Chart of Major AR Brands - M4Carbine.net Forums

There's a new one also being made here, Status of NEW Comparison Chart of Commercial M4-pattern carbines - M4Carbine.net Forums

It is A LOT to read but well worth it.

YMMV
 

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In my humble, but fairly-experienced opinion, spontaneously changing out the bolt carrier group and lower parts kit would be foolhardy. They'll work fine for ANY purpose, including lifesaving, that the OP desires.

"The CHARTS" only applicable for those applying for admission into Rambolistas Universal Wannabes Club. ;)
 

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This is what I have learned from extensive research when purchasing my barrel (please, anybody, correct me if any of this is wrong.):


  • Stainless Steel Heavy barrels are one of the most accurate barrels but because of the structural weakness in stainless steel, these barrels don't last as long as the other types.
  • Chrome Moly (non-chrome lined barrels) they are much stronger than the stainless barrels and almost just as accurate. Most earlier sniper rifles didn't have chrome lined barrels because of its increased accuracy. They are harder to clean and should give you no problems if you keep them lightly oiled.
  • Chrome lined barrels are Chrome moly barrels that have been chrome lined. They are easier to clean and because of the hard chrome lining, they are corrosion resistant therefore they will last longer than the stainless steel or non-chrome lined barrels. The drop in accuracy is incremental depending on the follow types of chrome lined barrels:
    • Button Rifled barrels are the most common type of barrles and they are made by machining the barrel and drilling the bore slightly bigger than the bullet diameter the drill is followed by a button that forms the rifling grooves. Then they come back and they crhome line the barrel till the thickness matches the bullet caliber. The bore in button rifled barrels are uniform completely through.
    • Hammer forged barrels are the more accurate of the two. The process of hammer forging is that they stamp a hollow steel cylinder around a steel mandril that has the rifling marks built in and is tapered towards the muzzle end. This method makes the barrel stronger than the button rifled and because the barrels bore tapers towards the end, this makes this type more accurate than the button rifled. The final process is the chrome lining.
As far as the barrel profile, the M4 profile is thinner under the hand guard to help cool the barrel and the cuts on the exposed end are set up to attach a grenade launcher. There are several different profiles such as the M4, Government, HBAR...etc....it all comes down to preference and accuracy....the heavier the barrel the more accurate the thinner the barrel the faster it cools....your decision alone and shouldn't be based on what others tell you. :cool:
 

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Define structural weakness.

SS can be some pretty tough stuff when you're working with it.

I'll be the first to say I am not a metallurgist, but there have been countless books written about different grades of steel that go into a depth about the subject that I have no desire going.

But as a blanket statement, Stainless steel is typically a little softer than other types of steels to begin with, but one of the fascinating things about martensitic stainless steel (reference to 416 grade because it's probably the most common SS barrel composition) is it can become much harder than it was originally if given a proper haet treating afterwards, and possibly some (harder) with nothing more than work/use hardening.

Just ask anyone that works with steels, they'll be able to confirm this. Working with SS can be a -----.

As for only listing two kinds of rifling (button cut and hammer forged), there are so many more that you haven't touched on. Broach, Polygonal, and cut rifling to just name a few more, but there are literally dozens of different kinds of rifling that have been used throughout time and various countries.

Button rifling is the most common because it's a cheap and fast way to do it. A production barrel can have the rifling finished in about a minute.

There are very few companies who do hammer forged barrels because the machines that do it are expensive, and it's time consuming.

I have a hammer forged and chrome lined barrel made by Steyr on my STG2000 AK. I cannot say that is is more accurate than any other, although I will say that it is plenty accurate enough.

Here's a good link that'll go into more detail than I can about the subject.
The Making of a Rifled Barrel, FirearmsID.com

One quote from the link above contradicts your assumption that Stainless is a substandard material to use in an (AR) barrel.

416 stainless is more accurately described as a "free machining, rust resistant" steel having a high Chrome content, around 10%, but with sulphur added to give it good machining qualities. It is widely considered that stainless barrels will have a longer life and are more accurate than Chrome Moly barrels. If stainless barrels are "shot in" using the prescribed procedure, the barrel aquires a burnishing which almost eliminates fouling, so making stainless barrels very easy to clean.
 

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As far as stainless steel, I agree that it can be tough depending on the amounts of Chromium or Nickel that has been added to the metal. The more nickel or chromium the softer the metal gets and the more corrosion resistant it becomes. The less chromium or nickel the tougher it gets and the less corrosion resistant it becomes. There is a point where you have to sacrifice toughness for corrosion resistance or vice versa. I am not 100% sure but I would imagine that when making barrels, they tip the scales towards toughness and sacrifice on the side of corrosion resistance. Now the corrosion resistance will be a lot more resistant that standard Chrom Moly barrels so this might not be an issue as most firearm owners typically take care of their guns and keep them cleaned and lubed.
From what I have been told by a metallurgist and from what I have read; most stainless steel barrels will not last as long as chrome moly barrels if both are put under the same conditions. Most people do not burn through hundreds of rounds every weekend therefore their barrels, no matter what they are made of, will probably exceed the life of the owner and should not be an issue.

My apologies for forgetting to mention broach, polygonal and cut rifling, they all have their pros and cons. I agree that the button rifling method is the most common used method do to costs and it is the quickest method which is why most manufacturers use it.

I did read several articles on hammer forged barrels verses Machined barrels and the controlled tests that they ran showed the hammer forging process to be slightly more accurate than the Machining process by maybe a two MOA difference if I remember correctly. I'll have to did up the articles I read and post them. but the accuracy is not enough to make one better than the other except that the hammer forging process makes the barrel stronger than the machining method.
 

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As you stated, I also have been told that stainless steel is a bear to work with, LOL. :cool:
 

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Most people do not burn through hundreds of rounds every weekend therefore their barrels, no matter what they are made of, will probably exceed the life of the owner and should not be an issue.
This is probably the biggest factor you have in deciding which one to go with. If you think that this applies to you, then go for the barrel that offers the better accuracy, or the accuracy that you will be content with.
 

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I go off of what I know...and here's what I KNOW.

A.) Notched barrels flex more than non notched or heavy. No, not to the naked eye but watch slow motion video and you'll see what I mean. John A. put it best when he made the M203 comment. I know it's currently popular to get a notched barrel but I simply do not buy into that...there's no convincing me it doesn't effect performance in the slightest when you have a giant notch taken out of the end of the barrel.

B.) I have never "shot the barrel" out of any gun I've ever had. I currently have a chrome molly RRA heavy type (not stainless, does not taper under the hand guard) barrel and it's perfectly fine to clean. Again, once something new comes along so many tend to look at anything older as garbage. I have a 60+ year old Mosin Nagant that shoots just fine, I personally guarantee you it does not have a chrome lining.





You made me chuckle a bit with your witch hunt comment. I do the same thing. I get asomething new, take it home and immediatly start researching to see if it's junk...and if you dig deep enough, you'll be able to find a bad review about damn near anything.

The new crow of AR bigot irritates the living crap out of me. Having served in the military, I can tell you the oh-so-amazing "mil spec" issue AR's wouldn't even be suitable as a fence post for most AR know-it-all's. I also get a kick out of the term "mil-sepc"..so many use it as a sign of a product being an end all be all. Let me tell you what mil spec really means...it fits bottom of the line basic military requirements. Just like crappy issued boots and MRE's...

Go enjoy your purchase brother, tell you tacticool buddies they're "Soooooo right", give them a smart ass wink and then go shooting...



I really got a kick out of this comment and helped me with my M&P sport AR purchase. All the hub-bub about not getting a chrome lined barrel or not having a forward assist or dust cover, give me a break! It's my first AR on my budget and I just want to shoot the damn thing. I know I will not be even close to putting tens of thousands of rounds through it so for me it is fine.
 

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I wouldn't worry too much about not going with the M4 (even though I own a couple), unless you're currently being considered for the Rambolistas Wannabees Association. :cool:

I also don't think you'll suffer too much from not having a chrome-lined barrel, even though all my non-varmint ARs do have chrome-lined barrels. If you shoot a lot, the chrome-moly will wear out faster than a chrome-lined barrel; however, AR barrels are pretty inexpensive and easy to install.

If wouldn't worry too much about your "snobby, 'Rambolista'" friends. I'd suggest that you just enjoy your new AR!!!:D
 

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There are brand loyalists out there that will tell you your AR is not as good as their $2K AR's. Then you will have others that will tell you certain parts are better than others—I would ignore those people for the most part. When I purchased my first Del-Ton AR, I had a few people tell me that the rifle was cheaply made and wouldn't make it past a thousand rounds. Well here it has been several years and many thousands of rounds later and the rifle performs flawlessly. It came with a non-chrome lined M4 profile barrel and after zeroing in my ACOG I hit a golf ball at 100 yards...so the barrel is accurate and the rifle still performs as well as it did the day I purchased it. Sure I would have rather had my barrel chrome-lined to make cleaning easier and more corrosion resistant but at the end of the day I always keep my barrels cleaned and lightly oiled and I have not seen any corrosion as of yet.

There is nothing wrong with your purchase—enjoy it! :cool:
 

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This is what I have learned from extensive research when purchasing my barrel (please, anybody, correct me if any of this is wrong.):


  • Stainless Steel Heavy barrels are one of the most accurate barrels but because of the structural weakness in stainless steel, these barrels don't last as long as the other types.
  • Chrome Moly (non-chrome lined barrels) they are much stronger than the stainless barrels and almost just as accurate. Most earlier sniper rifles didn't have chrome lined barrels because of its increased accuracy. They are harder to clean and should give you no problems if you keep them lightly oiled.
  • Chrome lined barrels are Chrome moly barrels that have been chrome lined. They are easier to clean and because of the hard chrome lining, they are corrosion resistant therefore they will last longer than the stainless steel or non-chrome lined barrels. The drop in accuracy is incremental depending on the follow types of chrome lined barrels:
    • Button Rifled barrels are the most common type of barrles and they are made by machining the barrel and drilling the bore slightly bigger than the bullet diameter the drill is followed by a button that forms the rifling grooves. Then they come back and they crhome line the barrel till the thickness matches the bullet caliber. The bore in button rifled barrels are uniform completely through.
    • Hammer forged barrels are the more accurate of the two. The process of hammer forging is that they stamp a hollow steel cylinder around a steel mandril that has the rifling marks built in and is tapered towards the muzzle end. This method makes the barrel stronger than the button rifled and because the barrels bore tapers towards the end, this makes this type more accurate than the button rifled. The final process is the chrome lining.
As far as the barrel profile, the M4 profile is thinner under the hand guard to help cool the barrel and the cuts on the exposed end are set up to attach a grenade launcher. There are several different profiles such as the M4, Government, HBAR...etc....it all comes down to preference and accuracy....the heavier the barrel the more accurate the thinner the barrel the faster it cools....your decision alone and shouldn't be based on what others tell you. :cool:
The thinner the barrel, the FASTER it heats up, which is why we have HBARS and bull barrels.

Barrel wear, Stainless vs. the others, has nothing to do with how strong a barrel is.
 
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