[LeMat]

Seeing as how it is virtually impossible to get a response via email from IDPA (I'm sure they're busy :wink: ), I was wondering if anyone was "in the know" as far as any changes being made in regards to the re-introduction of hi-cap magazines.

My theory is that nothing will change as stages have to be revolver-friendly and cannot have more than 18 rounds per stage. Tac-reloads are basically at the discretion of the stage designer, so I see no real advantage for having a hi-cap mag.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

 

[Snake-eater 1]

There will be no changes:
1. There are states, and countries, where IDPA is shot that do not permit magazines in excess of 10 rounds.
2. There is a very good chance that some form of the AWB will find its way back into law, IDPA would have to change back again.
3. The underlying thesis of IDPA, a sport designed to simulate average situations a citizen with a CCW might get into, doesn't require huge numbers of shots--a 10 mag is more than adequate.
4. Requirements for hi-caps would create a minor sort of equipment race.
5. The whole rationale for course design would have to change.
6. Hi-caps would make IDPA too much like USPAS/IPSC. Uncle Bill ain't gonna settle for that!!

There are other reasons but these are the more important ones as I see them.

 

[Ender]

There will be no changes:
2. There is a very good chance that some form of the AWB will find its way back into law, IDPA would have to change back again.

Not sure I agree with this on a natonal level. The AWB is largely balmed for the change of contol in the House in 1994 and top Democratic stratigists are telling canidates to stay away from gun contol issues. I think if they were unable to extend the existing ban I doubt their will be much support to introduce a new ban. I could be wrong but those are my thoughts.

 

[mullanman]

Hackathorn can bite my butt. That being said, nothing will change in IDPA. 10 rounds will be the maximum allowed for a mag.

IDPA does need to remove several of its rules in order to survive. Apparently Bill is only the BOD left, calling the HQ is like calling Prague and asking for directions on how to get around Dallas Texas. No apparent direction anymore.

Rant off.

 

[R Dub]

Some states have mag restrictions also. Its all about maintaining a level playing field as much as possible while keeping the scenarios realistic.
The only race in IDPA should be to get to cover.

 

[kevinpagano]

Hackathorn can bite my butt



Mullanman that is too funny, could this be over the XD can not shoot in the SSP class.

WILL IDPA SURVIVE. I dont think it has a chance to under current rules and management. IDPA has no customer service, does not listen at all to the membership. We are IDPA's customers. Bill and Ken have effectively run off interest in many shooting clubs at least in my section of the country. There seem to be alot of outlaw tactical matches going on, and i bet that will continue, and membership will decline.

If USPSA required Limited 10 to use practical holsters and gear, I believe IDPA in its current condition will be done for.

By the way i shoot idpa and like the format, I just disagree with many of its illogical rulings and disorganization.

 

[snertley]

Mullanman that is too funny, could this be over the XD can not shoot in the SSP class.

If it doesn't have second strike capablility it is a single action. Glock or XD. Period. :evil:

 

[mullanman]

The only difference between the Glock and the XD is about 0.030"....

The trigger on the glock resets with the striker in the forward position and the travel of the trigger pulls it back, ergo the DA. The striker on the XD is reset to the rearward position, ergo the SA only.

Personally, they are both plastic fantastics and should both be in ESP. SSP guns should have a designated EXTERNAL hammer, i.e. ruger, sig, HK, Beretta, not INTERNAL like the glock....

I do not forsee IDPA surviving much longer. The BOD is nonexistent, try calling IDPA HQ and see what kind of response you get. Loosen the rules a bit, promote the shooters, encourage more corporate sponsorship and you will see things change. USPSA is just more fun to shoot, period. Whenever is shoot IDPA, which is usually twice per month, i always ask myself, 'Wow, is the stage over already??? I only shot 8-10 rounds...."

Our club has recently been promoting CCW matches.... Same scoring as IDPA, but no PE's. Shoot the COF as you see fit. We encourage shooters to use their carry sidearms and rigs. NO shoulder harnesses or behind the back holsters due to safety concerns. COF's vary from 2-3 targets to 15+. Every one seems to have more fun. High cap mags are allowed, since you would likely use them in concealed carry anyway.

 

[kevinpagano]

I have been to matches just like mulenman. They are much funner and more realistic. Idpa should be like described below.

Shoot from concealment everytime.
No division seperations
135 power factor for everyone
must be at least 9mm dia.
4 3/4 inch barrel limit
shoot from cover when available
no orchestrated stages
classification similar to USPSA(Use the same course but base it off of national percentage like uspsa)
high caps allowed but must fit flush with bottom of gun
gun must fit in box
weight limit on all guns(who cares if a glock or XD are the same weight as a 1911)
Hit on no threats are -20 sec.
misses are -10 sec

In other words shoot what you carry no matter bullet weight or gun or action. cause lets see if the bad guy is going to give you an advantage if you carry a .45 or have 8 rounds or 17 rounds.

Kevin

 

[LeMat]

I was always under the assumption that shooting from concealment was a given. It sounds like such may not be the case.

As match director for our club, I require everyone to shoot from concealment, shoot from cover (from around, not over), etc. We don't have any members that shoot anything other than what one would carry, Glocks, Sig's, XD's, etc.. Everyone uses carry gear (in fact only about 4 of us own some sort of Kydex rig). Granted, we have only been shooting IDPA for 4 years and have an average of about 15 shooters per match, it sounds like some clubs are shooting IDPA like it was USPSA.

As far as round count, yeah, you're right. We do have some folks who shoot SSR, so it's only fair really. We get around it by shooting 2 or 3 strings on each stage at times. We also incorporate rifle and shotgun into our matches.

We're sort of on our own up here in Montana (there are only 2 IDPA clubs in the state), so we don't hear much negativity (other than from the USPSA shooters :lol: ) about IDPA. We shoot USPSA here as well and they have just as many members as us. I shoot it and enjoy it (can't help but like that high round count :wink: ), but I shoot it like I would IDPA. I just do not hear the reactions at our club like I hear in some of the above replies.

I really don't want this to turn into a bitch session, but I am very curious to know the particulars about the negativity concerning IDPA. I am in agreement concerning some of the rules (the tac-reload being the bane of the IDPA shooter IMHO). But I am curious to know more about other aspects that others are in disagreement with.

 

[mullanman]

LeMat,

It comes down to the usual gamer vs. purist attitudes. For me, IDPA is a sport and sport only. I shoot to win or place high. I go by the rules, full mag and weapon, tac load when required, use cover and concealment, etc. The problem with IDPA:
1. It really isn't 'Tactical'
2. The thinking is taken out of the stage, there is essentially only one way to shoot a stage.
3. The power factors are a little screwy, Why is CDP 165 and everything else 125? The PF encourage shooters to use light loads and small calibers, i.e. 9mm. Sorry, but I wouldn't carry a 9 for my personal defense. Give me a .40 or .45 any day. 9mm just doesn't cut it. No flaming please...... Just look at the FBI data and studies done over 100 years ago. Big slow bullets just do more damage...

4. Why can't i shoot my 5" 625 S&W revolver, the rules used to say i couldm now i can't. The rationale, no one would carry a 5" N'frame for self defense. Why not, I carry my Springfield 1911 Full size quite easily..

5. Actually i like Tac-loads, They are sensible and easy. It's the fact that IDPA encourages the shooter to go to slide-lock to save time on reloads. Huh???? Yep, i see it all the time, it is actually faster on many stages to go to slide-lock, since you can drop the empty mag.... vs. speed loads. Just give us the option to do whatever reload the shooter desires....

6. Round dumping to go slide lock, i don't do it, but i see it done. Hardly any prodecurals given. In fact a FTDR was given at nationals this year due to this, this goes back to lack of proper COF design. It also is a direct result of the reload issue.

Hope this helps.

 

[LeMat]

You do make some very good points there.

5. Actually i like Tac-loads, They are sensible and easy. It's the fact that IDPA encourages the shooter to go to slide-lock to save time on reloads. Huh???? Yep, i see it all the time, it is actually faster on many stages to go to slide-lock, since you can drop the empty mag.... vs. speed loads. Just give us the option to do whatever reload the shooter desires....

I started doing this very thing after I took over as match director. I felt that it was a bit silly to mandate that a stage required a tac-reload when a slide-lock would work just as well. I see no reason not to let a shooter determine how and when to reload.

I feel that it is important to allow the shooter some options on how to shoot a stage. Let 'em use their brains. Albeit, there are obvious things which may be done (tactical sequence, etc.), but I do think that a shooter will learn something at every stage if he is allowed to figure things out on his own. We aren't 10 year old kids out there and I see no reason to be treated as such. Of course, when you get to the point of round-dumping, that's another matter altogether and I agree with the FTDR in that regard.

The more I see and read here, the more I wonder how IDPA "pure" our club is. :wink: