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Discussion Starter #1
Ok so I was surfing the net like a dork and came across Federal Guard Dog, I carry 230 grain Hydrashok and to be honest never heard or seen the former, and I wanted to know if anyone had any experience or know if someone has and what they thought if them?

I like the hydra cause I never had a problem with my XDm or my brothers Cx4 using them but it would be nice to know if there worth giving a shot.

Thanks all.
 

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Guard Dog is out, it an expanding FMJ and will underpentrate when encountering barriers.
Hydra are old tech go with HST, Gold Dots or some other modern HP. There have been lists of acceptable ammo posted on there many many times.
 

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What Agalindo said. There's better loads than both of 'em easily available.

But between the two--HydraShok.
 

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Neither! Use Hornady TAP FPD! :)
 

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I'm using Hornady Critical Defense for XDm9- good or no?
No.

Lightwieght for caliber bullet, designed specifically to underpenetrate...not good at all. Overpriced, overhyped, underperforming gimmick round.

Read this: Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Note it doesn't just recommend loads, but it also says WHY they are recommended.

Choose one of the loads listed for your pistol, see if it likes it, and be confident.
 

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There is a video here from Gunblast about the GaurdDog. Shot clean through 1" of dry wall, a cover of denim, a 6" porkshoulder and out the backside with a 105gr. 9mm bullet. That seems pretty impressive to me, and wouldn't think that underpentration is an issue with this load.

However, they market their load to not overpentrate for indoor safety. Clearly it's not functioning as advertised, but just the oppisite. I say, gather your own test results, and carry with confidence.

9mm Federal Guard Dog Ammo - 105 gr Expanding Full Metal Jacket - Federal Ammunition - 20 Rounds
 

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6" is too shallow. Any round that can't penetrate dry wall will not penetrate human tissue.
 

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Yes it does. I don't mean that it doesn't go boom or that it doesn't load reliably in you gun. I mean, when encountering light barriers such as heavy clothing, wall broads ect... the HP tends to clog up and the bullet will not expand.
 

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Just because, hydra-shok is old does not mean it does not preform. I actually like that particular load.
HydraShok is one of the better choices of previous generaton bullets, true.

However, it has a bad tendency of not opening up properly after hitting barriers such as clothing, where newer rounds tend to do better.
 

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No.

Lightwieght for caliber bullet, designed specifically to underpenetrate...not good at all. Overpriced, overhyped, underperforming gimmick round.

Read this: Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Note it doesn't just recommend loads, but it also says WHY they are recommended.

Choose one of the loads listed for your pistol, see if it likes it, and be confident.
Damn, I really wanted to get Remington Golden Sabres (147 gr) as they were highly recommended to me but I let a friend talk me into the Critical Defense- he found a good deal on 250 rounds and wanted to split them.
 

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I personally carry Hydra's, Win. PDX1, and Rem. GS Bonded. Now, what we don't seem to have is some real world testing of ALL of these rounds. Side by side...ALL the crap and speculation cut. I don't think that wet newspapers, phonebooks, or balistic gel gives us real results.

Have not seen anywhere where someone lines up 20" of pork shoulders covered with a layer of cotton, a layer of denim, and or a layer of leather and once and for all, put it ALL to bed.

Until we have that, I can agree with Cuda and Agalindo to use what we KNOW works.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
That's why I asked what people with experience thought of those rounds lol, Well I have a 45 if someone close to western Montana has a 9 and a 40 we could go do that and see what happens.
 

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I personally carry Hydra's, Win. PDX1, and Rem. GS Bonded. Now, what we don't seem to have is some real world testing of ALL of these rounds. Side by side...ALL the crap and speculation cut. I don't think that wet newspapers, phonebooks, or balistic gel gives us real results.

Have not seen anywhere where someone lines up 20" of pork shoulders covered with a layer of cotton, a layer of denim, and or a layer of leather and once and for all, put it ALL to bed.

Until we have that, I can agree with Cuda and Agalindo to use what we KNOW works.
Problem is, even pork shoulders aren't repeatable...every time will be different, every round will strike an area with a slightly different density.

Until somebody can make up a full tissue and bone similacrum that is 100% repeatable--that is, a non sentient human clone--gel is actually the best thing going....and street results tend to show that rounds that do well in gel tests do well in the real world.

And once upon a time I did wetpacks faced with a carhartt, a sweatshirt, a flannel and a t-shirt...fun, and you got to see what rounds expanded and what rounds turned into FMJ's.

IIRC, HydraShok fell into the latter category. Blew through 3 Mpls/St Paul phonebooks...

Now, I just go with what experts who don't have any dog in the fight have to say...and when they pretty much universally say that a heavyweight for caliber, modern LE-oriented JHP is the best thing going...I listen. I make sure they feed in my pistol(s), and don't worry about the latest & greatest full-page ad in Am. Rifleman or G&A.
 

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Damn, I really wanted to get Remington Golden Sabres (147 gr) as they were highly recommended to me but I let a friend talk me into the Critical Defense- he found a good deal on 250 rounds and wanted to split them.
Make him buy your half if he thinks they're so great, and get the GS's.;)
 

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We do have real world testing of these rounds. It's been prove that gel test results mimic very closely the results for office involved shooting incidents.

Here's the thing. Dr. Fackler, Dr. Roberts and all the other Dr.s who made up this process are not just egg head scientists. They are ER and or combat surgeons who go tired of all the gun rag crap about stopping power, and knockdown power, percolating into the ER and LEO decision making. They went about creating a "repeatable" way of testing ammo that would very closely duplicate real world shooting incidents. What they came up with, ballistics gel. Ballistic gel correlates very closely with what they see in the ER and morgue results for office involved shootings. They tested the gel against, water, wet paper, clay, soap, pig flesh, cadavers and found that 10% gel duplicated the pig, cadaver and real shooting results.

Shooting pork doesn't give you repeatable results because every pig is different and there is no way you can shoot all the bullet into the exact same place at the exact same angle on the exact same piece of pork. Gel is prepared and calibrated so that you can get repeatable results which give you a much better way of testing bullets.
 

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Damn, I really wanted to get Remington Golden Sabres (147 gr) as they were highly recommended to me but I let a friend talk me into the Critical Defense- he found a good deal on 250 rounds and wanted to split them.
Not to worry, I drank the Critcal Defence Kool-aide too. But now they sit boxed up in an ammo can, awaiting a TRUE result sometime down the road.
I don't know where you buy your ammo, but here locally, I can purchase the Golden Saber Bonded 147's for $27 a box of 50. OF 50! I have heard of and seen jacket seperation of the regular Golden Sabers in various mediums, but who is to say what they do in the real human body or very similar pork shoulders. The Bonded's should be good to go
 

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Ok so I was surfing the net like a dork and came across Federal Guard Dog, I carry 230 grain Hydrashok and to be honest never heard or seen the former, and I wanted to know if anyone had any experience or know if someone has and what they thought if them?

I like the hydra cause I never had a problem with my XDm or my brothers Cx4 using them but it would be nice to know if there worth giving a shot.

Thanks all.
I have never cared much for "expanding FMJ" ammo, I have found that GS is consistently the most accurate ammo in my 1911 SS Champion as well as my XD 45 Service. YMMV

PS GS comes in 25 round boxes a nice touch...
 
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