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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted up my first range report the other day and I was practicing out to about 35 yards. I got some (good) advice that I should get closer groups at the 7 yard range before moving further out. Which I will do now.

My train of thought however, was, I am pretty consistant out to about 20 yards. 5 to 6" groupings usually. Why not practice further?

anyway, this is the senario that I keep thinking about:

Guy has a couple at gun point for a robbery (think bruce waynes parents lol) and I happen to see it from 100 feet away. Now, obviously without puting the victims in danger, do you take a shot? Are you good enough to make that shot?

Even better senario:

VT shootings. Guy has people in the front of a large class room and is putting them on their knees so that he can execute them. You happen to have avoided the initial attack and are now in the back of the class room with a conceal size weapon. Those classrooms are quite large. Can you make the shot?

How far out do you guys practice when shooting? I figure if you could get a good center mass shot consistently out to 100 feet (I know most ranges arent that long). that would be a good thing. I am talking about an upper chest shot or something. Ideally a kill shot because firing more would put the victims in more danger. Anyway, I dont mean to go all hollywood here but these are real life situations that have played into my thought process when it comes to CC. These are events that would allow for a good site picture and and maybe even a proper stance and breath patern.

What do you guys think?

ps I did a search and didn't really find what I was looking for.
 

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Your scenarios all assume that you don't mind going to jail ;)

Seriously, those are jobs for law enforcement. Your CCW is for "self defense". You should not ever think about interjecting yourself into any of those situations.

What if you miss or wound with any of those "clean shots", and that starts a gunbattle that gets three people killed? Even with a clean kill, you can be subject to prosecution and civil action for taking a life when yours was not in immediate danger.

Please make sure you keep all of these scenarios in the realm of hypothetical...

Scott
 

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I posted up my first range report the other day and I was practicing out to about 35 yards. I got some (good) advice that I should get closer groups at the 7 yard range before moving further out. Which I will do now.


My train of thought however, was, I am pretty consistant out to about 20 yards. 5 to 6" groupings usually. Why not practice further?

anyway, this is the senario that I keep thinking about:

Guy has a couple at gun point for a robbery (think bruce waynes parents lol) and I happen to see it from 100 feet away. Now, obviously without puting the victims in danger, do you take a shot? Are you good enough to make that shot?

--NO wouldn't try from that distance, would walk closer IF i was gonna shoot and tell someone to call 911

Even better senario:

VT shootings. Guy has people in the front of a large class room and is putting them on their knees so that he can execute them. You happen to have avoided the initial attack and are now in the back of the class room with a conceal size weapon. Those classrooms are quite large. Can you make the shot?

--No Your ass would be in jail regardless... no firearms in school even with CCW... but if allowed and your a damn good shot with a kel tec at that distance(mind its hard with a Kel Tec) still iffy shot

How far out do you guys practice when shooting? I figure if you could get a good center mass shot consistently out to 100 feet (I know most ranges arent that long). that would be a good thing. I am talking about an upper chest shot or something. Ideally a kill shot because firing more would put the victims in more danger. Anyway, I dont mean to go all hollywood here but these are real life situations that have played into my thought process when it comes to CC. These are events that would allow for a good site picture and and maybe even a proper stance and breath patern.

What do you guys think?
Adrenaline=Crappy Shooting for most people, distance matters in the court room BTW ;)

ps I did a search and didn't really find what I was looking for.
My $0.02
 

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What ifs are always good to think about. First, I always practice the 21' rule. I also do practice up to 50yrds just to know my limits! Each person has they own. Jail you say?!?! Well I hope you are willing to save me instead of thinking of your a$$... If someone was about to be excuted, I would attempt to "buy some time" by what ever means necessary. In a class room 35', and someone was about to be ex'd, you bet I would take the shot!!! Jail time should not be in your mind, you should already know what you can and can not do in your state!!! I would rather go through that whole court mess, than stand idle by while someone loses their life. Of course, this is my opinion...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
over all thats what I was figuring...

I know that you cant CC in schools but criminals dont care about that either. so If I was still going to school, maybe I forget about that rule. Not to mention the fact that some areas are considering allowing teachers to CC. So the tide might be changing on that one.

Im sure its not hard to imagine a situation where you would have to make a good long range shot with a pistol.

I hope nobody thinks that I am talking about shooting for the sake of it. This is including all the normal "shot or not" rules.

anyway, I thought it might spark a debate. I like the idea of being able to help people when they are in need too. not necessarily by trying to shoot from 100 feet away.. I am just asking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
What ifs are always good to think about. First, I always practice the 21' rule. I also do practice up to 50yrds just to know my limits! Each person has they own. Jail you say?!?! Well I hope you are willing to save me instead of thinking of your a$$... If someone was about to be excuted, I would attempt to "buy some time" by what ever means necessary. In a class room 35', and someone was about to be ex'd, you bet I would take the shot!!! Jail time should not be in your mind, you should already know what you can and can not do in your state!!! I would rather go through that whole court mess, than stand idle by while someone loses their life. Of course, this is my opinion...

totally agree.
 

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Your scenarios all assume that you don't mind going to jail ;)

What if you miss or wound with any of those "clean shots", and that starts a gunbattle that gets three people killed? Even with a clean kill, you can be subject to prosecution and civil action for taking a life when yours was not in immediate danger.



Scott
Scott, I just realized you are in Oregon. If your life or someone else's in immedite danger, you have the right. And it would be hard for a civil suit to stick even if you injured one of the "hostages", ok, maybe they'll sue you for the hospital bill.. maybe.
 

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Scott, I just realized you are in Oregon. If your life or someone else's in immedite danger, you have the right. And it would be hard for a civil suit to stick even if you injured one of the "hostages", ok, maybe they'll sue you for the hospital bill.. maybe.
Same in AZ. You can use deadly force to protect the life of a third party here.
 

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Your scenarios all assume that you don't mind going to jail ;)

Seriously, those are jobs for law enforcement. Your CCW is for "self defense". You should not ever think about interjecting yourself into any of those situations.

What if you miss or wound with any of those "clean shots", and that starts a gunbattle that gets three people killed? Even with a clean kill, you can be subject to prosecution and civil action for taking a life when yours was not in immediate danger.

Please make sure you keep all of these scenarios in the realm of hypothetical...

Scott
If a gunman is just shooting in a room that I'm in, I would consider it self-defense.
 

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Also in Oregon, CCW in and on school grounds is permissable. At least it was when I got my CHL.
 

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I like playing these out as well. Just wanted to make sure the OP knew that the scenarios he's proposing are pretty iffy from a legal standpoint, especially the robbery one..

I understand your points, but the scenario was laid out a little vaguely. Is it a hostage situation or execution?

Hostage situation, I'm in the back of the room and nothing else is happening other than putting them on thier knees or on the ground. I'm giving the police time to work it out peacefully, and certainly not starting the gunfight that gets a few kids killed.

Assuming that the gunman looks about to start start executing, then yes I would do something.

One note that has not been mentioned. In either situation, I would have started trying to work my way up towards the front right away. Even if I don't get all the way there, it's that much easier to hit, and that fewer childen in between us.
 

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Take a shot from 100 feet away? With a handgun? WIth bystanders standing right there?

Why on God's green Earth is that even a hypothetical?
That is what I was thinking. At 100 ft away, you really have no business taking a shot with a handgun. You have no control over things such as wind, so what do you think the chances are that you actually hit your intended target?


Please, please, please, if you ever see me with a BG's gun to my head from 100 ft away, do not take the shot. Just call the cops...
 

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Please, please, please, if you ever see me with a BG's gun to my head from 100 ft away, do not take the shot. Just call the cops...
??? WTF. I guess you haven't seen death before. If a BG has a gun to the back of my head and then tells me to get down on my knees (I don't think I would do it), at this point, he is not there to take your wallet sonnie. Someone take the shot, throw a chair, binder, lap top.. something!
If anyone remembers the school shootings over the last couple of years, it didn't work out too well for the dead people. If my son was dead and I found out someone with a weapon was cowering in the back of the room with a gun and did nothing... cough.. (breath) (gasp).. ok, I need to stop typing now... *sigh* I guess it takes a special person to be a hero, its not in all of us..
 

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??? WTF. I guess you haven't seen death before. If a BG has a gun to the back of my head and then tells me to get down on my knees (I don't think I would do it), at this point, he is not there to take your wallet sonnie. Someone take the shot, throw a chair, binder, lap top.. something!
If anyone remembers the school shootings over the last couple of years, it didn't work out too well for the dead people. If my son was dead and I found out someone with a weapon was cowering in the back of the room with a gun and did nothing... cough.. (breath) (gasp).. ok, I need to stop typing now... *sigh* I guess it takes a special person to be a hero, its not in all of us..

As I said, at 100 ft away with a handgun, just call the cops.

That has nothing to do with being a hero, it is called COMMON SENSE.:rolleyes: If you want to save me and be a hero, get closer than 100 ft so that you actually have a chance.
 

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I know, I thank you for putting up with my BP spike. I have seen death and have seen by-standers do nothing, it just freaks me out.. some people freeze, some people do the wrong thing and some people do good. Its hard to say how it works out until its over... "no one died during the making of this thread" LOL
 

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If a gunman is just shooting in a room that I'm in, I would consider it self-defense.
+1

I have told my wife several times, that I will gladly stand before judge and jury armed with the knowledge that I was protecting my family or myself.

Still not sure about the 100' thing. I'm not sure I would trust myself that much in such an adrenaline charged situation. Not yet anyway.
 

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Shooting anyone or anything at 100' with a handgun in a "real life" situation (i.e. not blowing up bottles) is just straight irresponsible. It doesn't matter that you may hit the person being accosted...who else are you going to hit at those distances? How can you even tell what the situation is? Are you sure someone has a gun pointed at someone's head?
 
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