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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does it apply to LPK's as well.....

Meaning the DPMS isn't as good as the RRA which isn't as good as the Stag.

Thoughts?
 

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Does it apply to LPK's as well.....

Meaning the DPMS isn't as good as the RRA which isn't as good as the Stag.

Thoughts?
My thought:

May someone please create a virus that wipes out that freaking chart on every system it resides on all over the planet. It's not worth the trouble and the arguments. ;)
 

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how dare you blaspheme...the chart is gospel! :lol:
Ehhh, the chart's kinda like Porsche ownership. If you don't own one it's "Porsh". If you do, it's "Porsh-uh". :D
 

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My local gun shop told me that LMT followed by DPMS was the best you could buy.... but then said, anything under 300 yards, they all will be good.

I'll take it for what its worth.... .02
 

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I fixed it for ya... after enough $3k dealer service visits it becomes 'Poorsche'. ;)

Ehhh, the chart's kinda like Poorsche ownership. If you don't own one it's "Porsh". If you do, it's "Porsh-uh". :D
 

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The problem isn't the chart, it's peoples interpretation of the data. The chart isn't lying. But people get so emotionally wrapped up in their decision to buy a rifle they think that not having as many check boxes for their brand some how is a personal attack on them.

If you think every check box on the chart is equally important, you are sorely mistaken.

Some of the check boxes on the chart like barrel twist rate really shouldn't be there for a comparison, they are a personal preference based on what type of ammo you are shooting. To say 1:7 is better than 1:9 because 1:7 is "Mil Spec" is pure BS. Most people don't need a 1:7 twist rate on their AR15.

But the chart does show why some brands of AR15 are more expensive than others.

The section on High Pressure Testing and Magnetic Particle Inspection is one big place where the cost gets passed on to the consumer.

If a company like Rock River Arms uses some good statistical analysis in their batch testing of barrels and bolts they can turn out a very high quality product. Their failure rate in actual use will be very low.

But, a company like Colt that HPT and MPI tests every single barrel and bolt is going to be spending more money on their product. They also will have a lower failure rate in use. We're talking fractions of a percentage point, but if I'm going to war with a rifle I want it tested before it is issued to me. If I'm just plinking with my AR's at the range it's not worth the money.

The latest version of the chart that I have seen as the interactive excell spread sheet does a half way decent job of explaining the various categories.

As for lower parts kits, I'm sure there are differences, but I've used CMMG, Rock River, and DPMS LPK's and they all seem to work about the same. The RR does have a little nicer trigger pull.
 

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uhhhhh, maybe a dumb question, but what chart?
 

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My god you don't know about the chart!!!!!!! You bought an AR and didn't consult the chart!!!!!!!!

The chart is a reference material used in selecting an AR that meets your needs, some people take it as gospel and trash any AR that doesn't meet all the required Xs in it.
 

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"THE CHART".....Beware, your rifle may not be on here!!!!!:rolleyes:

 

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ok, don't see what the big deal is about this "chart"....maybe i'm missing somthing? my bushy isn't on there but i know it performs damn good!
 

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Just extrapolating from one little tidbitthat I see on the chart, that the Bushmaster's gas key isn't "properly staked," I'd have to call b.s. on the whole chart. My Bushmaster Shorty's gas key is properly staked. Just bought a bolt carrier group from G&R Tactical, and the bolt is advertised and marked as being mp and hpt tested. Also has a crane o ring and chrome-lined gas key and carrier bore. Got similar results when I ordered a White Oak complete carrier group...and they were both "properly staked." I wouldn't own a 1-in-7 AR barrel. Use 1-in-8 for varmint barrel and 1-in-9 for general AR blasting. (Have shot some 1/2", five-shot groups @ 100 yds. with that Bushmaster 16", "inferior" chrome-lined barrel, though. :cool:
 

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Just extrapolating from one little tidbitthat I see on the chart, that the Bushmaster's gas key isn't "properly staked," I'd have to call b.s. on the whole chart. My Bushmaster Shorty's gas key is properly staked. Just bought a bolt carrier group from G&R Tactical, and the bolt is advertised and marked as being mp and hpt tested. Also has a crane o ring and chrome-lined gas key and carrier bore. Got similar results when I ordered a White Oak complete carrier group...and they were both "properly staked." I wouldn't own a 1-in-7 AR barrel. Use 1-in-8 for varmint barrel and 1-in-9 for general AR blasting. (Have shot some 1/2", five-shot groups @ 100 yds. with that Bushmaster 16", "inferior" chrome-lined barrel, though. :cool:
NOOOO, say it ain't sooooo!!!!!
 

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So a couple of questions about the chart:

Colt looks very good on it. Is that current / recent production COLTs or is that Colts of awhile ago? Do the same high marks that go to the Colt 6920 apply to all Colt ARs? Also, DPMS does not make this chart. Is there a chart with DPMS on it?

Chapie+

"THE CHART".....Beware, your rifle may not be on here!!!!!:rolleyes:

 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
So a couple of questions about the chart:

Colt looks very good on it. Is that current / recent production COLTs or is that Colts of awhile ago? Do the same high marks that go to the Colt 6920 apply to all Colt ARs? Also, DPMS does not make this chart. Is there a chart with DPMS on it?

Chapie+

Comparison Chart of Major AR Brands - M4Carbine.net Forums

That is a good question. If people get these model AR's and they have something that it says it doens't, or vice versa, email Rob_s over at M4Carbine and he'll update the chart.
 

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Just extrapolating from one little tidbitthat I see on the chart, that the Bushmaster's gas key isn't "properly staked," I'd have to call b.s. on the whole chart. My Bushmaster Shorty's gas key is properly staked. Just bought a bolt carrier group from G&R Tactical, and the bolt is advertised and marked as being mp and hpt tested. Also has a crane o ring and chrome-lined gas key and carrier bore. Got similar results when I ordered a White Oak complete carrier group...and they were both "properly staked." I wouldn't own a 1-in-7 AR barrel. Use 1-in-8 for varmint barrel and 1-in-9 for general AR blasting. (Have shot some 1/2", five-shot groups @ 100 yds. with that Bushmaster 16", "inferior" chrome-lined barrel, though. :cool:
^this is a perfect example of someone getting their butt hurt over the chart.
One thing misrepresented and the entire chart is BS ? MMKAY

Grant at G&R Tactical stakes all BCG's that he sells.

It is just a list of information people. Interpretation is left up to the viewer.
 

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So a couple of questions about the chart:

Colt looks very good on it. Is that current / recent production COLTs or is that Colts of awhile ago?

Do the same high marks that go to the Colt 6920 apply to all Colt ARs?

Also, DPMS does not make this chart. Is there a chart with DPMS on it?

Chapie+
I think the chart if made up from recent production specs.

I don't know what Colt does with their other models. I've seen some listed that do not mention a chrome lined bore. So I think the chart can only apply to the models listed. Which means that other manufacturers have models that may have more features or better specs than listed, the Rock River DEA model for instance.

DPMS is further over to the right. Here's a link to the entire chart:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&hl=en

Click on "SPECS" and COMPARISON" at the bottom of the page to see the chart itself.
 

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^this is a perfect example of someone getting their butt hurt over the chart.
One thing misrepresented and the entire chart is BS ? MMKAY

Grant at G&R Tactical stakes all BCG's that he sells.

It is just a list of information people. Interpretation is left up to the viewer.

Yeah but some of it is just wrong.

Like the part about the Staked Castle Nut on the stock. They say that Loc Tite isn't acceptable because of the heat in that area. Come on, it takes over 300 degrees to release Blue Loctite. Red takes even hotter.

The only way you are going to get a buffer tube and castle nut to 300 degrees is if you are on fire. Shooting an AR15 it is not possible to get the buffer tube hot enough to release Loctite. If the buffer tube is that hot all the rounds in your magazine will be cooking off.

I think staking is better because it is easier to take apart than Loctite. But Loctite on the castle nut is perfectly acceptable.

There information on barrel twist is also wrong, they state you need 1:7 to stabilize 75 and 77 gr bullets. 75 and 77 gr bullets stabilize just fine in 1:8 twist barrels. The only thing you need 1:7 twist rate for is the current military tracers or bullets over 80 grains.

Another one that people seem to make such a big deal about is a properly staked gas key. For Pete's sake people, staking a gas key takes a hammer, a punch and 30 seconds of your time. Many of the guns that they list as having improperly staked gas keys ship most of their guns out properly staked. Those few that aren't can be quickly staked by their new owners.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I agree it's information. But it isn't the gospel truth. It is one source of information you can use to help you in your search for an AR15, but don't make it your only source.

The other side is, don't take it personal if the AR15 you chose to buy doesn't have as many boxes checked as someone elses gun.
 
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