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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was just curious if there are any stories of people that were carrying in prohibited places and ended up using their firearm in self-defense. For example, people often reference the Suzanna Hupp story and the shooting death of her parents. I'm curious what would have happened to her had she been carrying and took out the shooter that day. I'm not looking to debate what's right or wrong. I'm more curious how they would handle something like that legally or what people's reactions would be, particularly the anti-gunners.
 

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I think it really depends on the political climate. Had Plaxico Burress shot a robber that night instead of himself I am confident he'd still be in a ton of trouble.

But had he been somewhere in Texas or Arizona or another free state, chances are that a DA would not prosecute.
 

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I was just curious if there are any stories of people that were carrying in prohibited places and ended up using their firearm in self-defense. For example, people often reference the Suzanna Hupp story and the shooting death of her parents. I'm curious what would have happened to her had she been carrying and took out the shooter that day. I'm not looking to debate what's right or wrong. I'm more curious how they would handle something like that legally or what people's reactions would be, particularly the anti-gunners.
I'm not aware of any stories, but I would think it would be up to the property owner. Suzann Hupp, if it's the story I'm thinking of, was in a cafe which would be private property. So had she been carrying, and stopped the shooter, the owner would have to press the charges against her, but he would have to ask her to leave first. I doubt an owner is going to press charges against you if you just saved someones life, but it could happen.

Keep in mind you can carry anywhere that is not federally or state restricted. It would be up to the DA to press charges if you were in a school and stopped a shooting, and I'd be willing to bet the DA would press charges. If it's only restricted by what is commonly known as a 30.06 sign (No firearms allowed) it is not illegal to carry there unless the owner requests you leave. If you do, no crime was committed. If you don't, it's trespassing.
 

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In TN we have a law that says that even if you are carrying your weapon in a prohibited location and you have to use it to defend yourself, as long as it is a good shoot, you wont be charged with having the weapon in a prohibited location.
 

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In WA State if a private place posts 'no guns' all they can do is ask you to leave and then get you in trouble for trespassing if you don't. Except for bars and courthouses and post offices.

I hear in some places if the mall says 'no guns' and you get caught CCWing it's a big deal?

I CCW at places that say "NO GUNS" if it's not really a state law, but of course my gun is CONCEALED so nobody knows.
 

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In TN we have a law that says that even if you are carrying your weapon in a prohibited location and you have to use it to defend yourself, as long as it is a good shoot, you wont be charged with having the weapon in a prohibited location.

Hey , what T.C.A. number is that law ? I just like to keep up on our Tn laws . I havent heard of it before and would like to know .
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So you want stories about law abiding gun owners breaking the law?

Since I've gotten my CCW permit and started carrying I find myself thinking of all these different what if scenarios and this is one of those. I thought that there has to be some stories out there of this. Unfortunately most of my googleing has led me to articles of felons possessing weapons and acting in self-defense or drug deals gone bad where someone is shot in self-defense. The only legitimate story I could find was a guy that shot four teens on a subway. He was convicted only of illegally possessing a firearm (a felony) and was sentenced to a year jail time. The comment in the article as to why he was carrying was because he had be assaulted before.

here's the article:
Report Urges Goetz Receive No Jail Time - New York Times

So I can only speculate what would happen to someone in those circumstances. I was curious of real world examples and the implications. Statistically though, I imagine there aren't many examples because most good people do abide by the law. You'd think though that examples like this with the New Yorker on the subway would show that people really ought to have the right to protect themselves, and the public/the anti's/the libs/or whomever should not be so fearful of guns in the hands of (otherwise) law abiding citizens. Anyways... this is just a product of the fact that I think to damn much about a lot of nothing.. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ok well here's another article that says Goetz is not so innocent as he may seem.. but still a very interesting read particularly on the public's reaction and concern for growing violent crime.

25. The Subway Vigilante
 

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If you read about Bernard Getz from an article, I feel very old.
We all followed this when it happened because the public sentiment was "GOOD!" when he shot those dudes.

Back then, NYC was a flaming cesspool of crime and nobody did anything about it. The jury refused to convict Getz for the shootings but state law against guns got him.

Supposedly NYC is much safer now, but I haven't been there in 25 years.
 

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I remember hearing a while back about a mall shooting where an armed citizen subdued the gunman and I believe it was a "Gun free zone". I think I read it on here actually, the gentleman had a Springfield EMP. Don't quote me on this account though!
 

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In TN we have a law that says that even if you are carrying your weapon in a prohibited location and you have to use it to defend yourself, as long as it is a good shoot, you wont be charged with having the weapon in a prohibited location.
Hey , what T.C.A. number is that law ? I just like to keep up on our Tn laws . I havent heard of it before and would like to know .
Actually, it's only a defense against ONE (of the numerous) prohibitions, carrying while under the influence:
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39-17-1321. Possession of handgun while under influence
(a) Notwithstanding whether a person has a permit issued pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351, it is an offense for a person to possess a handgun while under the influence of alcohol or any controlled substance.
(b) A violation of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

39-17-1322. Defenses. —
A person shall not be charged with or convicted of a violation under this part if the person possessed, displayed or employed a handgun in justifiable self-defense or in justifiable defense of another during the commission of a crime in which that person or the other person defended was a victim.
---------------------

So, to be on the safe side, if you're packing and get drunk, you better find a worse criminal to shoot! :p

- OS
 

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So you want stories about law abiding gun owners breaking the law?
LOL! That certainly has the air of contradiction doesn't it.

If you carry where you shouldn't, you commit a crime. Pure and simple.

If you defend yourself against a deadly attack and use deadly force shooting someone, you have an affirmative defense against a charge for shooting the BG. However, you have no defense for the crime of illegally carrying.

Expect that you will be prosecuted for the carry charge and exonerated if charged for the shooting. One has nothing to do with the other under the law.
:idea::idea::idea:
 

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I remember hearing a while back about a mall shooting where an armed citizen subdued the gunman and I believe it was a "Gun free zone". I think I read it on here actually, the gentleman had a Springfield EMP. Don't quote me on this account though!
I believe that was the shooting in Utah, and the man in question was an off duty LEO. But the mall was posted against carry of weapons.

Not sure how UT law applies to off duty leo.
 

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In WA State if a private place posts 'no guns' all they can do is ask you to leave and then get you in trouble for trespassing if you don't. Except for bars and courthouses and post offices.
I don't know how accurate this is since I haven't read the law itself, but I was told during my CCW class that carrying in non-government and non-alcohol establishments that have "no guns" signs up is a misdemeanor, not a felony. (Carrying in a government building or a bar is a felony.) If your concealed gun "prints" or is somehow exposed while you're in a "no guns" store and you are asked to leave, just leave and that should be the end of it. It's entirely possible you could face a misdemeanor charge but I doubt most proprietors would pursue it.
If you defend yourself against a deadly attack and use deadly force shooting someone, you have an affirmative defense against a charge for shooting the BG. However, you have no defense for the crime of illegally carrying.

Expect that you will be prosecuted for the carry charge and exonerated if charged for the shooting. One has nothing to do with the other under the law.
I agree with your legal viewpoint, but I would add that self-defense shootings and subsequent legal actions do not happen in a vacuum. It's hard to separate one from the other. Legally you'd be a dead duck on the weapons charge, but if it went to trial I'd ask for a jury trial. Unless they're heartless I don't think they'd vote to convict.
I believe that was the shooting in Utah, and the man in question was an off duty LEO. But the mall was posted against carry of weapons.

Not sure how UT law applies to off duty leo.
I don't know either, but I think some states require LEOs to carry at all times. (I don't know why they wouldn't want to in the first place anyway.) If the state or their department mandates carrying at all times I think it would trump the "no guns" policy at the mall and pretty much everywhere else for that matter.
 

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Actually, it's only a defense against ONE (of the numerous) prohibitions, carrying while under the influence:
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39-17-1321. Possession of handgun while under influence
(a) Notwithstanding whether a person has a permit issued pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351, it is an offense for a person to possess a handgun while under the influence of alcohol or any controlled substance.
(b) A violation of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

39-17-1322. Defenses. —
A person shall not be charged with or convicted of a violation under this part if the person possessed, displayed or employed a handgun in justifiable self-defense or in justifiable defense of another during the commission of a crime in which that person or the other person defended was a victim.
---------------------

So, to be on the safe side, if you're packing and get drunk, you better find a worse criminal to shoot! :p

- OS
I'm not sure about that. Where does it say that it is a defense to -1321? The way I have always heard it that it was just a general defense to carrying in prohibited locations. (There's even an FAQ in the Conceal Carry Forum on TGO that states the same as well.)
 

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I'm not sure about that. Where does it say that it is a defense to -1321? The way I have always heard it that it was just a general defense to carrying in prohibited locations. (There's even an FAQ in the Conceal Carry Forum on TGO that states the same as well.)

If you carry where you aint supposed to , then you better have a real GOOD reason to use it .
Hey bkelm18, does anyone still go 4 wheeling up Coal Creek Mountain ? My brother and me went there 6 years ago and it was ssssooo fun . You all have Brushy Mountain State Prision there too . Isnt that James Earl Ray was held?
 

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I'm not sure about that. Where does it say that it is a defense to -1321? The way I have always heard it that it was just a general defense to carrying in prohibited locations. (There's even an FAQ in the Conceal Carry Forum on TGO that states the same as well.)
Perhaps you are correct, but "under this part" is the pertinent phrase...seems quite clear to me.

I'll look at that FAQ on TGO and probably take issue with it :)

We'll get DoubleAfterSplit to chime in.

- OS
 

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...Brushy Mountain State Prision there too . Isnt that James Earl Ray was held?
Yep. Long story, but when he busted out, I was running movie film lab at UT, the video guys union was on strike at the networks, so all the network guys that came in to cover it had to shoot film. Kept the lab running 24 hrs/day for the 2.5 days or so until they caught him again.

(apologies for the off topic)

- OS
 
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