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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Aloha,

What is considered a good grouping for 9mm at 25 yards?

I'm reloading 9mm cases using cast LRN bullets and experimenting with different powders to find a good load for my XD9 tactical. Had a few FTF problems with OAL and case diameter, but I think I got that worked out now where the reloads cycles well in my pistol.

Now I need to concentrate on sighting and trigger pull. The shortest distance that we can shoot at the public handgun range is 25 yards. What should I expect for grouping with my tactical at that distance?

Mahalo & Mele Kalikimaka! :D
Keith
 

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With the XD Full size you should be able to get 2-3" at that distance with practice but be well advised what a pistol is used for, up close and personal 10-20' not 75'
 

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Hawaii-5-O said:
Aloha,

What is considered a good grouping for 9mm at 25 yards?

The shortest distance that we can shoot at the public handgun range is 25 yards.
Wow...25 yards is the shortest? At the indoor range I go to, that is the longest for handguns. The rifle range is another story. 25 yards as the shortest distance seems extreme.....how can you practice at useable self defense distances???

Anyway, I asked pretty much the same question not long ago. I have the Subcompact, which is obviously not going to be as accurate as your tactical, but still...seems like a long way to shoot a handgun (and not really the range that a handgun would be used for in real life).

Here are a couple of the responses I got when I asked. Thought they would apply to your question as well as mine (Oh....part of the reason I asked was that I noticed the targets they sell at the range say "25 yard slow fire pistol target"...so that info was included in my question, and you will see a reference to it in one of the following answers:

skygun9 said:
Don't worry what the targets have printed on them, just start at around 5-7 yrds and put a lot of ammo downrange and as you get used to it you'll be able to shoot farther away.
NExd said:
Dont believe anyone who says they shoot 2 inch groups at 25 yards. Leatham himself says he couldn't do it with any consistency.

Just worry about your own shooting. Start out at short ranges, then move back when your technique improves.
While the answers were addressed to my question and took into consideration (I assume) that I was shooting a Sub, and not a gun like yours, I got the impression that 25 yards, even with a 5" barrel is a long way. The comment about Leatham's statement was not specific to any handgun as far as I could tell.

Peace,
D.
 

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Not trying to be rude or insulting, but, are you shooting yards or feet. This is a common missconception among some shooters.
one yard is 3 feet.
Buddy of mine says he shoot 3" patterns at 75 yards with his berretta. :shock:
But his "75 yards" is really 7 to 8 yards, 21 to 24 feet. :wink:
His wife says he has the same measuring problem in 'other' areas :oops:

Again, not trying or meaning to insult anyone anywhere.
 

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I once went to an outdoor range where the minimum target distance was 25 yards. But that was mainly a long gun range -- they just marked off one end for pistols. Kinda ridiculous for a beginner to shoot a pistol starting at 25 yards. And as for 3" grouping at 25 yards with an XD, let's just say I haven't seen it done. :roll:
 

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I shout a 5 inch 40 cal. I consistently shoot a olympic indoor handgun range at 20 yards. If I can put 10 rounds inside a 3 inch circle im happy as pig in ****. If you can hit a 8X10 piece of paper 9 out of 10 times at 20 yards your doing great.
 

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My standard service XD9 will do about 3" at 25 yard without any trouble from a braced rest. My load is 4.2 grains of Bullseye in mixed American (Rem, Win, Fed, ) brass and the bullets are Remington 115 grain bulk FMJ (verify with your manual before trying the load). I had a Tactical 40 and it was almost as good (wish I still had it). On the other hand, my Tactical 9 groups more like 5-6" with the same load, and several inches too high. Go figure.

I haven't tried cast bullets in the XD. BUT, when I used to load them for my S&W DAO autos, my group sizes were always 50% or more bigger than my jacketed loads. The best powder I found for 9mm cast was HS6 and I found the 125 gr RNL bullets shot better than the truncated cone. I used a avery minimal charge of HS6 (check your manual) and only got 950 fps or so. It functioned the S&W okay, and was fine for close range shoot and move drills.

Most 9s have a fast 1 in 10" barrel twist that doesn't seem to be too cast bullet friendly. I finally gave up and started buying bulk jacketed bullets by the 2000 round case. In fact, I need another case now!

Good luck.
 

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When I got my pistol, I bought the standard NRA official 25 yd. slow fire pistol target (standard American type.) Well.. that was dissapointing. I paced off 25 yards, and was doing well if I could even hit the paper at that distance.

After reading the forum, I reduced the distance to about 7 yards (21') and can at least keep my groups inside the rings. I am not a great shot.. I need way more practice! But for me, 25 yards is a long ways away.

Raymond
 

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Without starting a battle here, I would like to point out that the pistol is fully capable of shooting well past 25 yards. In years past, I shot a lot of PPC competition, which goes from 7 yards to 50 yards. I've seen some of the top shooters put 60 rounds into 3" at those ranges, including the 50 yard stage. I used to be able to routinely shoot a clean 300 on the course, but that was quite some time ago, and involved lots of practice (1,500 rounds in practice a week, plus 180 rounds of match each weekend)

That said, don't sell the handgun short for distances longer than 20 yards or so. I've fired pistols in matches out to 100 yards, and you'd be surprised at what they're capable of.

Shoot your handgun from a sandbag rest and see what it, and you, are capable of shooting. You will build your confidence in both the gun and your ability from the bench, then work on your shooting grip and stance for point shoulder or offhand shooting.

For accurate pistol shooting you have to remember these six words: "Front Sight, Front Sight, Front Sight". Wherever that front sight is when the round fires, that's where the bullet is going, no matter where you're looking.

Hope this helps,

Fred
 

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I moved from the Northeast to the Northwest, and went from indoor pistol ranges to outdoor rifle ranges -- the shortest distance at the range I go to now is 25 yards (75ft.). If no one is around, some people will just walk out into the field until they are about 25 feet from the backstop and shoot from there, others just bring very large pieces of paper.

At that distance, slow fire with a full size Kimber 3-4" groups are reasonable, with Glocks, Sigs, Kahrs, etc. (I'm buying my XD next week, so I can't comment on that yet) I look to keep them in the 8-10" range. Assuming the math is correct, if you are hoping for a defensive gun to give you 3" groups at 25ft., then 6" groups at 50ft. and 9" groups at 75ft. seems reasonable. The toughest part about the 75ft. distance is doing speed drills, because my eyes don't like to focus quickly at that distance.
 

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ReloaderFred said:
I've seen some of the top shooters put 60 rounds into 3" at those ranges, including the 50 yard stage.
WOW!!!! I doubt I could even see a 3 inch circle at 50 yards.

Good to know such a level of skill exists. Gives us all something to "shoot" for. :shock:

Peace,
D.
 

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ReloaderFred writes:

Without starting a battle here, I would like to point out that the pistol is fully capable of shooting well past 25 yards.
Yes, well I know that it can be done, it's just that I am not doing it... at this point anyway. I just need more practice.

I have found that using better ammo helps.. but it's not stopping me from pulling down and left. This is the most consistent aspect of my shooting. Down and left.

I did read a good tip that somebody else posted about making one full and smooth pull on the trigger. I have been pulling in on the trigger to release the safety until I felt some tension, then pressing the trigger to the point where the gun fired. This, I think is part of the problem I am having. The next time I go shooting I am going to work on getting rid of that habit.

Raymond
 

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Captain Ray,

If you're right handed, then shooting low and left is indicative of squeezing your whole hand as you pull the trigger, rather than using a firm grip and just pulling straight back with just your trigger finger. You also may be putting too much finger on the trigger, which will also cause you to shoot low and left. You want to use just the pad of your finger in front of the first joint, so you can pull straight back, and not at an angle.

Do some dry firing, after making sure the pistol is completely unloaded of course, and watch your front sight. If the sight is moving low and left, you're squeezing the whole hand.

In the PPC course of fire, the 50 yard sequence is 6 rounds weak hand barricade, 6 rounds strong hand barricade and 6 rounds prone, so six of those shots are fired with the weak hand. The ironic part is that most shooters shoot better with the weak hand, due to concentrating harder and doing everything right.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 

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Dont give up on your XDs! I just got a 9mm tactical model last week and have about 1K through it. It is plenty accurate with the right ammo, and due to the trigger out of the box I was having fits. I can only shoot indoors right now, so my longest shots are 18 yds. The design of the barrel lock up is similar to the Sig series, with lockup in 6 places. It is like a bank vault. Most XDs will shoot just as well with the factory bbl. as they will with a Barsto.
The gun, with my Bianchi cup reloads for 9x19, 122 LFP (.3565) with 3.5gr Titegroup gave me 6rds touching or in the hole at 18 yds. Now this was on the bench when I was fresh. I have since done a trigger job on the gun and it will be much easier to shoot accurately!
Remember, 9x19 is a bitch to reload for accuracy at 25, and 50 yds. I spent the last year trying to find good loads, most that work well at 25 open up at 50yds. This is with ranson rest and premium jacketed hollow points(Sierras, XTPs, Zeros). I have limited experience with the .40s, but they are set up the same, so I would expect the same accuracy with them.
Remember when shooting groups, focus on the front sight as if there is no tomorrow, while pulling the trigger back SMOOTHLY. If your grip is good/neutral, the gun will show you where it shoots at longer distances. A good reference point is to put a regular paper plate up, and dot the I, or put the front sight right under the plate at 6oclock, so you can repeat the same sight picture everytime for the group. If you mess up a trigger pull, remember which shot it is, and you should be able to find it on the target. Enjoy the XD, it is an awesome gun! DougC
 

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for 50 yards was, believe it or not, Federal's 9BPLE- the 115 grain +P+ JHP that does about 1350 fps from 4" barrels. It could be counted upon to group under 4" (5 shots) at that distance from a Beretta 92G Centurion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Wow....Thanks everyone for your tips and comments.

No insult taken, our public handgun range is setup for 25 yard (75 feet) and 50 yards (150 feet). There is another range for "action pistol (IPSC)" shooting here at the Koko Head Shooting Complex that looks a lot closer, but I'll have to join a club for that. I'll check that club out once I'm more comfortable with the XD. If you want to see the range check this site out: http://home.hawaii.rr.com/khsc/index.html

I'm using 25yd slow fire targets. Hitting all around the paper with one hand and two hand holds. Bench rest will get me in the 5 ring and some in the 9 and 10 rings. Just not consistant yet.

I'm now using Bullseye and Power Pistol powders. Had a problem with Accurate #5 powder, but it may have been the way I was seating the bullet. Noticed for lead bullets that if they extend to far out from the case they may not fully seat into the chamber. Guess bullet is a tight fit in the barrel where rifling starts. This is due to the diameter of lead bullets being 0.356" verses jacketed bullets at 0.355". That thousandths of an inch makes a big difference. Also noticed that if the loaded case exceeds 0.380" diameter it will also jam in the chamber. I now pop them into the disassembled barrel to insure that my reloads will feed correctly.

My current Bullseye load is 4.6gr with both 119gr LRN and 123gr LTC bullets. The LRN appears to be more accurate, but I need to run more tests first. I do have to seat the LTC deeper into the case for an OAL of 1.044" verses an OAL of 1.111" for the LRN. This would change the pressure as well as the velocity, but I don't have the equipment yet to determine that.

Will try out the other powders as reloading is quite fun to do, and habit forming too! 8)

Mahalo and hope Santa brought everyone something special. My XD-9 Tactical was mine! :D Mele Kalikmaka!!! :D
 

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19 yards, 25 yards or 50 yards...........some of you guys need to join the US Olympic shooting team and get you share of gold medals. Our country needs you! :mrgreen:

DougC
I just got a 9mm tactical model last week and have about 1K through it.
1,000 rounds in a week?! Good greif man, when do you sleep? Thats a ton of shooting! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
 

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Hawaii-5-O said:
Bench rest will get me in the 5 ring and some in the 9 and 10 rings. Just not consistant yet.
IMHO, that is a huge waste of time and ammo. Anyone with me on this one?
 

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NExd said:
Hawaii-5-O said:
Bench rest will get me in the 5 ring and some in the 9 and 10 rings. Just not consistant yet.
IMHO, that is a huge waste of time and ammo. Anyone with me on this one?

I wouldn't think anyone would want to shoot from a bench a lot with a pistol like the XD.

but

I don't know about it being a waste........it's a good way to work on trigger technique and sight alignment before getting serious about free hand shooting.


Besides that, it's fun!!

bd
 
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