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2 thumbs forward. This man has some serious hands and probably one helluva handshake.
 

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The "thumbs forward" grip is the one that's in-favor now. :)

However, you'll need to realize that the "thumbs forward" descriptor is just that: and it actually covers a whole range of different specific techniques that each shooter tweaks (Vogel in the video above alluded to this, when he mentioned that he has some small cuts on the top of the web of his hand from the slide - there's actually scars there - where some guys with meatier hands can get really flayed open with the same). If you're interested in the grip, take a look at this thread on DC.com:

Proper Grip & Recoil Managment

- Specifically, take a look at this post of mine, and track out to that outlink so that you really get an idea of how there are small but important (and if you were to ask these shooters, they're critical) variations even among the top shooters: Proper Grip & Recoil Managment - Page 5

What Vogel doesn't mention in that video segment above is just how athletic he is, and that this plays a big factor in why his techniques work - for him. :)

Vogel made it plain to us that a serious shooter (and no, you don't have to be a competition shooter or other professional gunman to qualify: you can just be a serious hobbyist) should be able to crush-out a #2 Captains of Crush grip trainer. A big part of his technique hinges on raw strength and athleticism. (Similar to this, another relatively famous Ohio shooter, Chris Cerino - Top Shot runner-up for both Season 1 and the All Stars - came around the class to demonstrate how much grip pressure he uses with his support hand...I simply said "wow." :lol:)

To further this, near the 3:30 mark in the video, he talked about how he exerts inward force to lock-in the gun. This is done with not only the arm muscles, but also with the rest of your upper body muscles - pecs, traps, all of it.

I'm not a small guy - here's me with Vogel, from a class he taught in the spring of 2012:



- but I was completely unprepared for what happened when he asked us to assume our normal shooting stance, dropping our support hand/arm, and to let him assume the support side duties while we "countered" his inboard torque with our weapon/dominant hand/arm. Yup, he just about toppled me over on my right side. :redface: :lol:

Find what works for you. Understand that breadth of knowledge is just as important as depth of knowledge. Learn what works for these top shooters, and give their techniques a good and honest try to see if they work well for you. Adopt what works, and discard what doesn't. We're all different, and what works for another person may work the same, better, or not at all for you. :)

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I also think that this thread that's running will help you with the grip:

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/classroom/257328-physics-muzzle-flip.html

Understanding how recoil comes about helps you better control it.
 

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Finger strength will produce a world of difference in your shooting, assuming your grip is correct! If your gripping correctly the trigger thumb is not even needed and is actually in the way. He's got an excellent technique, trouble is most of us do not put in the time to master it. I know I could use more hours practicing!
 

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^ Remember the "technique versus strength" video that Panteao Productions did, with Vogel and Abbate?

That's the eternal debate. :wink:

To a degree technique can compensate for a lack of strength or even simply not as much strength - but there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that more raw grip strength is absolutely beneficial.

Similarly, the debate about the finer points of how to execute the grip is also an eternal one - as with you, I typically take my weapon-hand thumb out of the equation when I'm shooting for precision, a technique I picked up from lessons with Chris Cerino.

Certainly, when I'm shooting fast at closer targets and I don't have time to worry about it - I don't. I just use the natural/instinctive convulsive grip (which has overlaps with point-shooting, as it turns out!), and blast away. But when I need to slow down to make those longer distance shots or really precise shots? I hear Cerino whispering in my ear: "flag that thumb."

It may not work for everyone, but it did work for me. :)
 

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^ Remember the "technique versus strength" video that Panteao Productions did, with Vogel and Abbate?

That's the eternal debate. :wink:

To a degree technique can compensate for a lack of strength or even simply not as much strength - but there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that more raw grip strength is absolutely beneficial.

Similarly, the debate about the finer points of how to execute the grip is also an eternal one - as with you, I typically take my weapon-hand thumb out of the equation when I'm shooting for precision, a technique I picked up from lessons with Chris Cerino.

Certainly, when I'm shooting fast at closer targets and I don't have time to worry about it - I don't. I just use the natural/instinctive convulsive grip (which has overlaps with point-shooting, as it turns out!), and blast away. But when I need to slow down to make those longer distance shots or really precise shots? I hear Cerino whispering in my ear: "flag that thumb."

It may not work for everyone, but it did work for me. :)
LISTEN TO THIS MAN!

TSiWRX may reply in the form of novels, but he knows what's up.
 

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^ :lol:

"tl:dnr" is one of the usual responses I get. :lol:

I try to help others as I've been helped in the past. I've been really lucky to have had the time and the funds to do some training, and I've been doubly lucky that I've gone to some really wonderful instructors.

I'm just trying to pay it forward. :)
 

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The price I payed today for a grip closer to the bore axis:

 

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Nice slide bite. lol
 

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The price I payed today for a grip closer to the bore axis:

Go back to time point 4:43 to 5:10 in the video cbaldwin2112 linked to, and you'll hear Vogel talking about the fact that his hands do get cut there.

In-person, when you take a look at the top of the web of his dominant hand, guess what's there?

Yup, two scar tracks.
 
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