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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Have taken multiple pistol classes.every one it is considered standard.to move off of where you shot(X). and scan for other threats. I do the same thing when I shoot at a spot near home.where I can practice drawing and firing. Every instructor has used this practice for a simple reason.to avoid tunnel vision and the increasing chance.that the bad guys may be working in pairs or more.and muscle memory will help you do it.in the event you are forced to use a gun in self defense. Anyone else do this when they practice.
 

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Pretty common idea. Practice is a different story. U start waving a gun around, ie other than straight down range, at public ranges and the RSOs get real jumpy. Don’t blame them, seen some real stupid stuff.
 

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Be careful you don't train bad habits. An instructor I go to occasionally calls what you are discussing as the "Tactical Hair Flip".

He said people get into a bad habit of firing X amount of shots, then they do the tactical hair flip and go back to shooting, the same number of rounds, then redoing the tactical hair flip.

He showed me what he meant, by having he and I stand behind the line of 10 shooters about 5 yards, he had the rest of the second line move about 10' from us so we were right there in the open.

He had taken an old 80's $5.00 flea market survival knife out of his truck, then gave the command for them to start the drill, he told me to stand still and put that rather large knife to my throat as we watched all 10 shooters shoot, look left, look right, then start shooting again.

After the second "scan" he dropped the knife and called cease fire. He then asked the shooters to describe what they saw while scanning.

None of them noticed him holding a giant knife at my throat.

And firing the exact same number if shots before scanning trains your brain to that that in real life.
Take a shoot house class with those habits and it will be an eye opener, because all bad guys do not cease to be bad guys with a set number of rounds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
At the indoor range or outdoor public range I go low ready but I stay put.but just rotate my head. Safe but effective.at the place I can do draw and fire practice.i do move off X.
Be careful you don't train bad habits. An instructor I go to occasionally calls what you are discussing as the "Tactical Hair Flip".

He said people get into a bad habit of firing X amount of shots, then they do the tactical hair flip and go back to shooting, the same number of rounds, then redoing the tactical hair flip.

He showed me what he meant, by having he and I stand behind the line of 10 shooters about 5 yards, he had the rest of the second line move about 10' from us so we were right there in the open.

He had taken an old 80's $5.00 flea market survival knife out of his truck, then gave the command for them to start the drill, he told me to stand still and put that rather large knife to my throat as we watched all 10 shooters shoot, look left, look right, then start shooting again.

After the second "scan" he dropped the knife and called cease fire. He then asked the shooters to describe what they saw while scanning.

None of them noticed him holding a giant knife at my throat.

And firing the exact same number if shots before scanning trains your brain to that that in real life.
Take a shoot house class with those habits and it will be an eye opener, because all bad guys do not cease to be bad guys with a set number of rounds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
At the indoor range or outdoor public range I go low ready but I stay put.but just rotate my head. Safe but effective.at the place I can do draw and fire practice.i do move off X.
Good point 45 fan.i posted this in hopes of getting useful feedback.about aspects I am missing and need to be aware of. And adjust accordingly. Most of my practicing of late is either by myself.or at the range but no one shooting with me.to give feedback on what they saw. Used to have a indoor range in my area.that did a fun drill night once a month.complete with time scores.I got feedback from the instructor and the other shooters who were typically better than me.range is closed so I'm mostly on my own.l
 

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At the indoor range or outdoor public range I go low ready but I stay put.but just rotate my head. Safe but effective.at the place I can do draw and fire practice.i do move off X.
This is what I suggesting you be careful of, you say just move head. If you train that way, in real life you fall back to your training. So if you are "Scanning" but actually just moving your head, you might miss the bad guy that will take you out.

There is no time limit to scan, reholster, etc.
Take the time to actually look as you are moving your head, then if stuff happens in real life, you'll have better habits to fall back on, when your body goes into auto pilot.

At indoor ranged, look at what people are wearing behind you, what are the holding, etc.
 

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Good point 45 fan.i posted this in hopes of getting useful feedback.about aspects I am missing and need to be aware of. And adjust accordingly. Most of my practicing of late is either by myself.or at the range but no one shooting with me.to give feedback on what they saw. Used to have a indoor range in my area.that did a fun drill night once a month.complete with time scores.I got feedback from the instructor and the other shooters who were typically better than me.range is closed so I'm mostly on my own.l
I see we were typing at the same time.
 

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At the class I took the instructor had multiple silhouettes set apart at random distances. When he said go you start looking for the laser he was shining on the target he wanted you to find and shoot. All the while yelling get off the x. Mostly point shooting.
 

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Agree with .45fan.... I also had an instructor with similar ideas about that shoot, look/scan.......he was very good at getting the point across that you needed to be looking, not just glancing around. Unfortunately he isn't training classes any more... he had some great techniques that he was able to train us with on a police range that he controlled. No place to practice any of his methods at local ranges anymore. I guess the indoor laser SIRT will have to do. :-(
 
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Don't just look - actually "see." This is the mental part of training/practice that a lot of folks miss out on.

"Range theatrics" or "tactical Kata" is just that -


Don't just do it for the sake of doing it: understand why you're doing what you're doing. This way, even if you can't do it due to range limitations as @BigG XDM noted, you can still "do it in your mind," and get the same result (i.e. after shooting inside the stall, you come to the compressed high ready with your muzzle still pointed straight downrange, and instead of physically turning while using proper muzzle-aversion techniques, you instead imagine yourself doing so, taking note of what you should be seeing, etc.). Relating this to real-life, how many times have you heard from drivers who've been in collisions or near-misses that they swear they didn't see the other vehicle: that it was "just there?" My bet? They looked - but didn't actually see.

Even "moving off the X" is still but a mental exercise: the true purpose is to help the shooter kick the habit of defaulting to "stand and deliver," to instead be able to react dynamically by moving-to-cover/concealment and/or maneuvering on the threat(s) to gain a more advantageous position and/or to avoid physical battery.

It's a stepping stone to advancing students to a 360-degree shooting environment and/or integrated combatives training. :)
 

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Don't just look - actually "see." This is the mental part of training/practice that a lot of folks miss out on. (y)

"Range theatrics" or "tactical Kata" is just that -
Don't just do it for the sake of doing it: understand why you're doing what you're doing. This way, even if you can't do it due to range limitations as @BigG XDM noted, you can still "do it in your mind," and get the same result (i.e. after shooting inside the stall, you come to the compressed high ready with your muzzle still pointed straight downrange, and instead of physically turning while using proper muzzle-aversion techniques, you instead imagine yourself doing so, taking note of what you should be seeing, etc.).

Relating this to real-life, how many times have you heard from drivers who've been in collisions or near-misses that they swear they didn't see the other vehicle: that it was "just there?" My bet? They looked - but didn't actually see.
How many of you have had the windshield pillar on your vehicle totally block a car or pedestrian? I’ve had it happen several times and could imagine if your using some sort of cover that could have the same effect. Anymore I practice in my head wherever I can, Parking lots, grocery stores ect basically just being aware of your surroundings wherever you go can help. I can see where the theatrical training could get someone into trouble.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
How many of you have had the windshield pillar on your vehicle totally block a car or pedestrian? I’ve had it happen several times and could imagine if your using some sort of cover that could have the same effect. Anymore I practice in my head wherever I can, Parking lots, grocery stores ect basically just being aware of your surroundings wherever you go can help. I can see where the theatrical training could get someone into trouble.
Not interested in theatrics.but well aware of how it could easily slip in without knowing it. The monthly night of different times and scored drills.against shooters better than me.was how I kept up and aware of what I was doing right or wrong.its been 4 months since the once a month shoots stopped.and I have had only YouTube and my range time.both indoor and two outdoor places.one of which is a friend's log yard.were I can draw shoot and move. Knew I was missing some stuff I normally might of been made aware of by better shooters and instructors feedback. Hai some people wanting me to help them learn to shoot for defense reasons.and would hate to impart bad practice or ideas to them.
Unfortunately our instructor was killed on the highway here 2 yrs ago now. Lost a great teacher with so much experience.
That is the thing about a good instructor. When you loose access
 

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How many of you have had the windshield pillar on your vehicle totally block a car or pedestrian? I’ve had it happen several times and could imagine if your using some sort of cover that could have the same effect.
Absolutely.

"Expectations" also comes into play in situations like this - we glance at/around, and think that we don't see anything because we don't expect anything: but it turns out that there is, and it's being hidden by that moving/movable blind-spot. 😅

And I really like how you play the game with yourself on a daily basis. (y)

Part of the problem is that we just don't get enough practice at these tasks - versus, for example, driving: it's a task that the majority of us do every day, sometimes multiple times a day.

Time on task.
 

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I do not subscribe to any pre-ordained movement. I will do what I feel is best ( in the moment). Sure, moving is "generally" a better idea than standing still but lets use some common sense rather than relying purely on a mantra of sorts. Maybe I take a knee, maybe I go prone, supine or whatever. Yeah, maybe I run left, right or get behind cover. I might do these things while firing in defense or after firing or I may run first and shoot in defense once I get to a better position. Maybe I just stand and deliver...

It all depends on countless nuances within the moment.

The question is: do you have an idea of how to make tactical decisions and carry out maneuvers which are conducive to achieving your goal? Do have a process to make such decisions or are you simply following some mantra

I accept that "getting off the X" has a certain "spirit" attached. I tend to agree with the spirit of the saying. That said, its not everything in a nutshell. Tactics, strategics and mindset are a little more complex than any "saying".
 
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