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Discussion Starter #1
I'm looking to get into IDPA style competion. What do I need to get started? I currently have a Service .40 with a DGR and Dawson adjustable fiber optic sights. Should I stick with that or I have been looking into getting a Tactical will a 9mm work or should I go with another .40 or.357 Sig :twisted:. What else do I need accsessorie wise. any help is appreciated.

Thanks
Ryan
 

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Sounds like you have enough to get started, you will need a suitable holster and some spare mags and carriers, but most local clubs will forgive a lack of equipment the first few times you shoot.

The thing to do is find out where your local clubs are and when they shoot, which I would look up for you except that I can't find a city by the name you have listed in your profile. There is a Huskerville in Nebraska, but I don't think you would misspell it if you live there.

Try looking on this web site for clubs: http://www.idpa.com/clubs/CLUBLIST.HTM
 

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Ryan_B said:
I'm looking to get into IDPA style competion. What do I need to get started? I currently have a Service .40 with a DGR and Dawson adjustable fiber optic sights. Should I stick with that or I have been looking into getting a Tactical will a 9mm work or should I go with another .40 or.357 Sig :twisted:. What else do I need accsessorie wise. any help is appreciated.

Thanks
Ryan
It's always great to see new shooters join the sport. The XD can only compete in ESP because it's considered a single action gun. What does that mean to the new shooter? Nothing really. If you want to compete in ESP you either have to hand load your 40 rounds or get the 9MM tactical because shooting full house 40 loads against 9MM and hand loaded 40's is a huge disadvantage. I would strongly suggest shooting your 40 for awhile to see if the sport is for you. The one thing I would strongly reccomend is that you stay away from the .357sig if you wan't to be competitive. If you want to use it because that is what you plan on carrying go right ahead.

Your Dawson adjustable fiber optic sights at completely legal so no worries on that front.

You will need a good sturdy belt. I use an 1 1/2 inch wide 1/4 inch thick leather belt when I shoot. The belt cannot be wider than 1 3/4 or thicker than 5/16. Many use wilderness belts, safariland makes some good belts just stay away from the two piece belts, as they are illegal.

If you have high cap mags you only really need 3, 10 in the mag, one in the pipe and two magazines in your carrier. If you have ten rounders you'll need four. One in the gun two in the carrier and one to top off with. It can be done otherwise but I strongly suggest that as a first time shooter that you avoid over handling your gun until you get comfortable. Mistakes happen when new shooters who are fixated with shooting the stage make mistakes that they would never ordinarily make. As an SO I have seen some incredibly stupid things done but otherwise intelligent people. YMMV.

You will also need a holster and mag carriers. The Mag carriers have to cover at least two inches of the mag tube as measured from the top of the rim of the case in the mag. The mag carrier also has to cover the face of the magazine. The holster has to cover the trigger and cannot hold your gun in a manner where the trigger would be below the belt. It cannot be a crossdraw rig, a shoulder rig, ankle rig or small of the back rig. Nor can the holster hold the gun in a manner that the muzzle actually points down range. A FBI cant is legal.

As to who makes good idpa holsters and mag pouches that is a matter of choice. For kydex holsters I use Comp-Tac because they make an outstanding product. Their employees are competitive shooters and they have a very quick turn around (less than a week). I have never used blade tech but many IDPA shooters love them. They have a 4-6 week turnaround time.

The sky is the limit with leather holsters from the uber high end Alessi rigs, the Bulman rigs, the Milt Sparks rigs and the Mitch Rosen rigs. Then you have the moderately priced rigs like the high noon holsters and then you have your Galco's, fist and Bianchi. The turnaround on leather is usually much longer. I suggest kydex if it is just for IDPA as they are much faster than leather. If you plan on carrying get a good comfortable leather holster.
 

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Ryan_B said:
I'm looking to get into IDPA style competion. What do I need to get started? I currently have a Service .40 with a DGR and Dawson adjustable fiber optic sights. Should I stick with that or I have been looking into getting a Tactical will a 9mm work or should I go with another .40 or.357 Sig :twisted:. What else do I need accsessorie wise. any help is appreciated.

Thanks
Ryan
The .40 Service will work just fine. Now, besides the pistol, what other gear do you already have?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the reply's as for the gear all I have is 4mags 2:12rd; 2:10rd El cheapo uncle mike's nylon holster, and Caldwell electronic hearing protection.
 

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Need to get some eye protection, mag pouches (two single or one double), and a range bag.
AJames and Old School hag mag pouches in stock. They also carry an assortment of holsters for the XD. And Old School also sells range bags (a cheap tool bag will work also).
Pick up some inexpensive range ammo and you pretty much set.
Find a club near you and find out when they shoot. Some clubs require a new shooter orientation to go over procedures and safety issues.
http://www.xd-hs2000.com/magpouch.html
http://www.pistol-gear.com/
 

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Try the Blackhawk holster, it's priced right, and outstanding. I got mine thru Pistol-gear.
 

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OK.

I must chime in here. Don't worry about your equipment as much as the shooter. Everyone gets carried with "what do I have to have to be competitive".

Follow this link
http://idpa.50megs.com

Then find the match results for April Clear Creek. You will see that in SSP, I was 3rd. I don't know the whole story as I was a new shooter, but I saw XDs there, I saw fiber optic sights. No-one was in ESP for scoring.

I have shot IDPA twice and taken an IPSC safety coarse. Most of the people there seemed to do this quite often.

The lady running the match in CDP, who told me what I was doing wrong, etc, etc, etc, actually scored WORSE than I did. A lot of my poor score was "technical" penalties (i.e. dropping a partial mag on the ground, shooting a target out of order, not moving). Imagine what I would have done without the technical penalties.

Why do I say equipment doesn't matter? Just compare raw scores of everything, including CDP. I was holding my own and have only competed for two matches (one in January which included a short safety coarse, the match was the live fire portion of the safety coarse, and this one).

I was shooting the "cheapest" POS pistol on the range. I was shooting my Ruger P89 that has somewhere between 15000 and 20000 round through it. No trigger work. No custom sights. Just a P89. I used my standard range ammo of WWB. I did have a Fobus Kydex holster. I had a mag holder with flaps, not Kydex ones. As you can see, even with a POS and poor equipment, you can be competitive.

One thing to note, go see your local IDPA BEFORE purchasing equipment. From what I have seen, the local chapters seem to "bend" rules to suite their shooters. Both the the IDPA clubs here do not follow the holster rule. Many people have their holsters from last year, and that what the clubs intend to allow to continually be used.

Also, the having to "conceal" the weapon for IPDA is ignored here. In fact, if someone here with a CCW would conceal a weapon, it would be against the law. And a shooting match where a good chunk of the shooters are cops, is not a place to encourage breaking the law.

As I tell people when shooting, racing, or wheelin (some of my hobbies), work on the person performing the sport, not on the equipment. You will find spending $400 on ammo and trigger time will gain you more than spending $400 on a new gun to compete with.

-Dana
 

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Practicallity and good sense make up more substance than any amount of flash in the pan with high dollar equipment. DanaT's got it right. Check out the locals and go from there. Use a weapon you're familiar with and you'll shoot it a lot better than the newest big money piece you're just getting to know. All that common sense is making me get interested in some fancy shootin'.
 

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DanaT said:
Also, the having to "conceal" the weapon for IPDA is ignored here. In fact, if someone here with a CCW would conceal a weapon, it would be against the law. And a shooting match where a good chunk of the shooters are cops, is not a place to encourage breaking the law.

-Dana
I realize it's part of a local match and therefore somewhat unregulated, but part of the point of IDPA is drawing from concealment. It may not always make a huge difference in time, but anyone who has ever gotten "hung up" on their concealment garment can tell you it can make a big difference. It's one of those unexpected things that helps make a match more exciting.

Maybe I missed something, but I'm forced to ask...why would it be illegal for someone with a CCW to conceal? What's the point of the CCW if you can't? Not being argumentative, I just don't get what that means.
 

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Then find the match results for April Clear Creek. You will see that in SSP, I was 3rd. I don't know the whole story as I was a new shooter, but I saw XDs there, I saw fiber optic sights. No-one was in ESP for scoring.
That's funny because the XD can only compete in ESP (SSP doesn't allow SA guns and CDP is only for the 45ACP) so if there were several XD's there than there should be ESP scores.



I have shot IDPA twice and taken an IPSC safety coarse.
With all due respect, with a very limited background in the sport is it really wise to be giving adivce to new shooters? I don't mean any disrespect but I have been shooting IDPA for the past 4 years with over 100 matches (approx 10 different clubs), 2 years as an SO and two state championships under my belt. My observations are drawn by seeing how things vary from club to club. Yours comes from how things are done at just one. This new shooter should be given general advise based on how things tend to work at many clubs not just one. His club may not run their matches like yours does.

A lot of my poor score was "technical" penalties (i.e. dropping a partial mag on the ground, shooting a target out of order, not moving). Imagine what I would have done without the technical penalties.
That is a shame because SO's shouldn't be rule Nazi's when it comes to new shooters (except where there is a safety violation). When I SO a match I want a new shooter only to concentrate on range safety, shooting the COF and having a good time. If you start throwing in procedural's for every little thing it tends to increase the level of difficulty. As I said before I have seen otherwise safe and smart shooters do stupid things becuase their brain is overloaded.

Why do I say equipment doesn't matter? Just compare raw scores of everything, including CDP. I was holding my own and have only competed for two matches (one in January which included a short safety coarse, the match was the live fire portion of the safety coarse, and this one).
Again that is based on one small sample. I looked at the times for the match and assuming they followed IDPA rules and no stage required more than 18 rounds only one guy had a good time (interestingly enough it was a revo shooter). No offense meant but at clubs with master and expert class shooters any new shooter should not expect to be in the top half of shooters out of the gate. A new shooter shouldn't even be concerned with his/her time the first 4 or 5 times out of the gate. My advise to the original poster is to ignore your times or where you stand amongst other shooters until you have shot your first classifier.

Also, the having to "conceal" the weapon for IPDA is ignored here. In fact, if someone here with a CCW would conceal a weapon, it would be against the law. And a shooting match where a good chunk of the shooters are cops, is not a place to encourage breaking the law.
Why am I getting the feeling your club is more IDPA like than an actual IDPA club. New shooters should not be required to shoot from concealment until they feel comfortable. After that they should be required to because it is part of the sport. And that last line about encouraging breaking of the law is just plain silly. There are IDPA clubs in states where CCW is illegal. By your yardstick they should't be shooting matches becuase it encourages breaking the law. Every sport has to have rules. IDPA is no different. I don't like some of them (like retaining partially empty mags) but you have to live by them. I can't stand clubs that don't enforce the rules. How can one compete and judge his/her improvement when the rules aren't enforced. At that point it ceases to be a game and becomes nothing more than a recreational activity. If that is what they are looking for than why go through the motions of becoming an IDPA club. There are plenty of IDPA like matches around.

As I tell people when shooting, racing, or wheelin (some of my hobbies), work on the person performing the sport, not on the equipment. You will find spending $400 on ammo and trigger time will gain you more than spending $400 on a new gun to compete with.
No experienced IDPA shooter would disagree with that statement. The shooter is always more important than the equipment but if you want to compete in the sport you would be foolish to ignore the benefits of certian euqipment. If the original poster wants to use IDPA as CCW practice than he should only use what he carries in the same exact manner in which he carries it. If he is interested in competeing than what is the point in buying equipment and then having to replace it for more effective equipment a year or two later. I knew even before I shot my first match that I wanted to compete in the sport. To that end I had a conversation with several top shooters to know what I would need to compete effecitvely down the road.
 

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MonkeyWithAGun said:
Maybe I missed something, but I'm forced to ask...why would it be illegal for someone with a CCW to conceal? What's the point of the CCW if you can't? Not being argumentative, I just don't get what that means.
heater said:
There are IDPA clubs in states where CCW is illegal. By your yardstick they should't be shooting matches becuase it encourages breaking the law. Every sport has to have rules. That was a typo/brain fart. The brain was thinking faster than the fingers were typing. What I meant to say was "don't have a CCW". I think clearing up the typo will explain some thing. However, in my state without a CCW you can only carried concealed on your property and in your car. Outside of that that it is illegal. The club said they were not going to encourage someone to break the law. Also, it is worth noting that many shooting places here are NOT on private property. Some places are on BLM land and the BLM has given permission for clubs to shoot there.

heater said:
That's funny because the XD can only compete in ESP (SSP doesn't allow SA guns and CDP is only for the 45ACP) so if there were several XD's there than there should be ESP scores. I can’t answer your question here. All that I can say is that I saw two XDs and then the score card. I would think along the same lines as you with ESP.



heater said:
With all due respect, with a very limited background in the sport is it really wise to be giving adivce to new shooters? I don't mean any disrespect but I have been shooting IDPA for the past 4 years with over 100 matches (approx 10 different clubs), 2 years as an SO and two state championships under my belt. My observations are drawn by seeing how things vary from club to club. Yours comes from how things are done at just one. This new shooter should be given general advise based on how things tend to work at many clubs not just one. His club may not run their matches like yours does. Should I be giving advice. Well, maybe from a new shooter (lets say “new to the sport”) my observations ARE relevant to what he might experience. And actually, no, they aren’t my observations how things are done at one club. Both matches were at different clubs.

The club furthest out that I took the safety coarse and shot match #1 at seemed to be a more “laid back” group of guys that were there to have fun and do some shooting. This group was from a much smaller town with 2/3 of the participants either being LEO or Military.

The club closest to me (which was Saturdays match) had a more “mall ninja” flavor to it.

Good, bad, or indifferent, they both had different feels to them.

I guess the one thing that bothered me more about the second match was many people thought of these as “tactical matches”. We need to be clear here. This is a sport. Nothing more. If I were in a “tactical situation” facing a group of bad guys that I had to approach and attack, I wouldn’t. I would do whatever it took to bug out ASAP. Also, the paper targets don’t seem to move. Again, this is a sport, nothing more, nothing less.

heater said:
That is a shame because SO's shouldn't be rule Nazi's when it comes to new shooters (except where there is a safety violation). When I SO a match I want a new shooter only to concentrate on range safety, shooting the COF and having a good time. If you start throwing in procedural's for every little thing it tends to increase the level of difficulty. As I said before I have seen otherwise safe and smart shooters do stupid things becuase their brain is overloaded. I couldn’t agree more.

heater said:
I looked at the times for the match and assuming they followed IDPA rules and no stage required more than 18 rounds only one guy had a good time (interestingly enough it was a revo shooter There were lower times than the Revo shooter. I don’t know if any COF REQUIRED more than 18 shots, however, many people used up all 31 rounds of ammo and didn’t get all the targets. I think to say times are poor s difficult to say just looking at scores.

One COF had at least 8 steel targets (8 inch) out at 20 yards or so and two targets, the “mini-man” steels are 25 to 30 yards out. They also had paper targets. This COF probably only needed 18 shots, unless you missed a shot, then it needed more. It seemed many shooters had a hard time with the longer shots at steel targets.

Yes, it is nice advice to say to ignore the score, however, it is hard to really do. A lot of people are competitive by nature.

To assume that I can’t shoot as well as other people is not exactly correct. Just because I haven’t “played the game” doesn’t mean I can’t shoot well. In fact, I went a little slower than many other shooters, but I practice shooting a lot and a 25 yard pistol shot on a steel target I have no problem with. At the steels, many people took 4 or 5 shot to hit a target, if they cleared al targets.

Both COFs with steel, I only required a second shot on one steel. I found that going a little slower and hitting is better than fast and missing. With time speed will improve. But I don’t want to give up accuracy.


heater said:
By your yardstick they should't be shooting matches becuase it encourages breaking the law. Every sport has to have rules. IDPA is no different. I don't like some of them (like retaining partially empty mags) but you have to live by them. I can't stand clubs that don't enforce the rules. How can one compete and judge his/her improvement when the rules aren't enforced.
Yes, I don’t agree with all the rules. However, were rules conflict with laws, laws should supercede. If this weren’t the case, why is there a 10 round limit to mags? I believe this is to keep an “eve playing field” in national matches. Some states it is still illegal for new HiCaps. Therefore, they don’t want to have people breaking the law or people from a state where new hicaps are available having a competitive advantage. Again, this goes back to being a sport and not training. If it were training, how many people would use half empty mags?

The retaining half empty mags were where some of my procedural penalties were. Stupid rule, but I will live with it. Its part of the sport.

How can one gauge there improvement? If everyone on the same day is playing by the same rules, then you can see how you improve ad can measure yourself. A club could make up the rule that all shooters have to wear tutus. As long as everyone is doing it, it s a level playing field.


heater said:
No experienced IDPA shooter would disagree with that statement. The shooter is always more important than the equipment but if you want to compete in the sport you would be foolish to ignore the benefits of certian euqipment. This is the essences of my whole post. People think that if they get the newest widget for their guns, it is like firing guided missiles. Look at how many people just on this board want tungsten guide rods. They want to modify triggers. They want to do everything. Fact is, most people will shoot no different, whether bullseye shooting or action shooting, with these mods.

As Americans, we tend to think that the newest, greatest technology can overcome all obstacles. If this weren’t true, there wouldn’t be all the diet pills sold. People think they can take a pill and loose weight because of “technology”. Fact is, loosing weight means less calories and more exercise. Getting good at shooting (I am assuming a base level of gun here, no Jennings) requires practice. If one doesn’t practice, going out and buying a custom gun won’t help much.

Finally, there is some level of “natural ability” with shooting, or any activity. Some people will just be better at some things than others. A good example is that I really don’t have the talent to be an NFL quarterback no matter how hard I practice. I truly believe to be at the top of any sport (and most activities) you have to have a gift to be the absolute best.

-Dana
 
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Can a 9mm conversion barrel be used in an XD-40 for IDPA? How about 15-round mags?

Watching Shooting USA always makes me want to compete!
 

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Preacher said:
Can a 9mm conversion barrel be used in an XD-40 for IDPA? How about 15-round mags?

Watching Shooting USA always makes me want to compete!
Under permitted modifications for the ESP division which you would be in using an XD:

3. Internal accuracy work (includes: replacement of the barrel
with one of factory configuration, the use of Accu-Rails, the
use of Briley Bushings).

You notice it doesn't specifically say it has to be the same caliber like the the SSP division does:

6. Internal accuracy may be worked to include replacement of
barrel with one of factory configuration and original caliber.

Yes, you can use 15 round mags, but you can only load them to 10.
 

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Lots of good advice above. My only addition is to consider getting one of the popular and legal Kydex holsters instead of the nylon one you have. They can be obtained for as little as $20, help you draw faster and are arguably safer.
 

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If this weren’t the case, why is there a 10 round limit to mags?
That speaks more to a fair balance in the sport than honoring the law. We all know how easy and legal it was to get hi-cap mags during the AWB era. So access really wasn't the issue excpet for guns like the XD which were introduced after the ban. As far as I know IDPA has always had a limit on mag capacity mostly in an attempt to prevent an arms race that has happened in IPSC.

The fact of the matter is that you want each shooter to have a level playing field. Glock for instance makes the G17 and G34 with 17 round mags so with one in the tube and a full mag in theory you could shoot an entire stage without ever reloading. Now the an XD-9 owner only has 15 rounds plus one in the tube to shoot an 18 round stage. As you can see the Glock owner has a big advantage over the Springfield, Sig, H&K, Beretta. So they set the limit at 10 to ensure each shooter gets a fair shake.

Look at CDP for example it would have been 100% legal to shoot CDP with a 10 round mag at any point over the past 10 years but that division only allows a shooter to use 8 rounds in the mag. Again it had more to do with fairness than out of respect for the AWB. The Glock, and Hi-Cap 1911's would have made the single stack 1911's and the Sig 220 irrelevant in fairly shoot order.
 

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I must have missed something in your quest to prove me wrong.

Did I not say that the magazine capacity was to make it a more level playing field?

Now, you have totally proven what I have said. It is a game. Nothing more nothing less. If this were really a "tactical simulation" hi-cap 45s would be allowed in CDP and I guess that a glock 19 would have an advanatge in "tactical simulations" over an XD just as it does in real life situtaions if the extra few rounds make a difference.

What is funny is that you seem most bothered with the fact that I am a newbie and that I shouldn't be able to shoot with anyone worth their mustard. Looking at raw scores, I can tell you that Susan was MD. I would guess that they have SOME experience.

Here was the FIRST match that I ever shot in. I guess the rankings )of those who put them down) means that this group here was a bunch of yahoos.

http://www.danat.mesanetworks.net/Pueblo.pdf

Again, looking at the scores of the "sharpshooter" I wasn't off too far on the same COF. Stage 1, however, I really screwed up. I was shooter #2 and was the first match and first COF. I didn't enetirely know what was going on. After the first COF (I ran them in order), my scores in general improved and were competative.

You can bash me all you want for being a newbie since you have been playing the game for 4 years. That said, my results I am not too ashamed of.


-Dana
 

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I must have missed the part where I bashed you. I was respectful of you in my original post yet somehow you got your panties in a wad. My apologies if it struck a nerve that wasn't the intended purpose.

If you really must know the truth I do have issues with people who are new to the sport that despense advice. That would be like me renting a gun, shooting 100 rounds thorugh it and then gettting on an internet message board and holding court about the strengths and weakness's of said weapon. The fact of the matter is this thread isn't about you or me it is about the man who asked for advice. Your advice is drawn from a very very limited background at clubs that don't enforce rules and have no clue what class the XD is in. Things are very different at other clubs. I gave him general advice that would be good over a wide spectrum of clubs. I am not trying to prove you wrong merely trying to ensure the original poster gets the best possbile advice based on a broad spectrum of experience.

Please don't respond because since you seem to be taking this as a personal insult I fear that this conversation will add nothing to the original posters request for information and I don't feel the board will be well served with a two poster pissing match.
 

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Hey DanaT, I was at that match in Clear Creek with my XD9 and I have only shot it in 2 IDPA matches and each time they put me in SSP with the Glocks. I am not a gamer (obviously, I finished last, although I had 2 really good stages and 2 that sucked), I am out to just have fun, to learn and hopefully develope some better shooting skills. So, I really don't care if they put me in SSP or ESP.
 
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