[scjohn]

I'm sure many of you guys have read this already...
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm
But I just wanted to know if the XD-9 was considered a "first class pistol" and if anyone has had experience shooting the Cor-Bon 115 grain +P ammo in their XD-9 (if it feeds fine, etc...). Any responses will be appreciated.
Also wanted to know how many of you guys agree with the site saying that the best 9mm self-defense ammo being the cor-bon +P 115 grain JHP.

 

[one-eyed-fatman]

Most of these opinions are based upon the work of Massad Ayoob

Some people love him and some people hate him.

 

[JD McDorce]

But I just wanted to know if the XD-9 was considered a "first class pistol"

Based on the context of the article, I would consider the XD9 a first class pistol.

 

[kgpcr]

I'm sure many of you guys have read this already...
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm
But I just wanted to know if the XD-9 was considered a "first class pistol" and if anyone has had experience shooting the Cor-Bon 115 grain +P ammo in their XD-9 (if it feeds fine, etc...). Any responses will be appreciated.
Also wanted to know how many of you guys agree with the site saying that the best 9mm self-defense ammo being the cor-bon +P 115 grain JHP.[/quote

]

I think he is off his rocker. making a statement like a .357 will be a better stopper than a .44 mag is just plain bullshit. I have shot deer with both and i will tell you a .44 mag hollow point is devastating. that being said i would never carry or recomend a .44 mag for self defense. its to much gun for most. also he sounds like a Corbon add. I think he is too much on the side of expansion and to heck with penetration. All the studies tell us that if you have to choose take the penetration. any way i just some of his comments were just plain silly

 

[jkswiss]

I don't know about your 44 Magnum thing man. It is said that the .357 Magnum is the best MAN stopper, not deer stopper. I guess the 125 grain hollow point out of a magnum has a certain way with humans that puts them down to the count. I have heard that the .357 is the best man stopper, bar none, on many occaisons.

 

[LexDiamonds]

I really enjoyed reading this article. However, I must say that while many good ideas/facts are presented, this guy is still full of ****.

Few things:

Most importantly- I would say this was written at least 10-12 years ago. I base this on his lack of "street reports" on the .40SW and .357sig which came out in 1996? I believe.

The Gold Dot hollowpoint doesnt exist at this point, which we all know to have excellent expansion and ballistic characteristics. Dont take any of the first reccomended bullets to be gospel. Not to mention that Cor-bon has tamed a lot of their ammo down in recent years.

Maybe I am XD spoiled, but the no 147gr in 9mm advice was just plain silly. While I agree there may be better choices in certain scenerios, he makes the 147 load seem utterly worthless. It is not.

I really dislike how he dogs the 10mm. What is this guy smoking?

quote: "It was thought to be the ne plus ultra of pistol rounds when introduced in the late 1980's, but hasn't turned out to be superior to the better 9mm, .40 S&W or .45 ACP jacketed hollowpoints." -endquote

Any look at a ballistics chart shows what the 10mm is really about. Granted, he was shooting watered down factory ammo for the 10 (.40SW speeds) and also we are talking about terminal human ballistics here. THe 10 doesnt have enough street record to really strut its stuff. The numbers dont lie- 180gr [email protected] is a potent combo. THis is Ayoob for ya- he has always given the 10 a bad rub...

Anyhow....


A good read, but dont take it as gospel. IN answer to your original question, the Cor-bon 115 JHP is a good round, but I prefer a 147gr HP for better penetration capabilities.

 

[hal.9000]

I think he is off his rocker. making a statement like a .357 will be a better stopper than a .44 mag is just plain bullshit. I have shot deer with both and i will tell you a .44 mag hollow point is devastating. that being said i would never carry or recomend a .44 mag for self defense. its to much gun for most. also he sounds like a Corbon add. I think he is too much on the side of expansion and to heck with penetration. All the studies tell us that if you have to choose take the penetration. any way i just some of his comments were just plain

Well first off, the reason the 357 magnum works better for people than on deer is that most deer aren't stupid enough to get within 7-10 yards of an armed human (average combat distance). Most shots on deer are out beyond most combat handgun distances (25 yards+).

Second, the 44 magnum wastes most of it's energy OVERPENETRATING its target in self defense. While you will get a better "blood trail" to follow, I see no advanages to this and plenty of disadvantages. Like a 240 grain JHP cooking though a bad guy, the wall behind him and the person on the other side of the wall. The 125 grain 357 magnum won't do this. In fact the 357 magnum 125 grain bullet will most likely stay inside the BG's body. In hunting over penetration is not that big of a deal. The round usually ends up in the ground or a tree. But in self defense in an urban environment you had better be concerned.

Also consider the targets you're shooting at. Most deer are a little more stout than the average human. When you take a shot at a deer, usually bone is hit because you're aiming right behind the shoulder. Center of mass on a human will more than likely mean a gut shot and or few bones hit. If you shoot a human center of mass there is the a better than average chance that you'll only hit soft tissue and the 44 will go right through and not bother to expand (remember these rounds are meant for deer, not humans). The 125 grain JHP will expand in soft tissue and not perforate (through and through wound).

 

[masterofg3]

Ayoob is, and has always been "a legend in his own mind". My guess is that if anyone ever drew on him,all of his great advice and knowledge would be immediately replaced by the wetspot in his pants! It's easy to make the 10mm "blend in" with all other defensive calibers, you merely include (only) fbi spec. or "moderate " loadings into the mix.The 10mm is king.

 

[jkswiss]

hehe, you and your 10mm.

 

[Gadget]

Here we go again.

 

[kgpcr]

Second, the 44 magnum wastes most of it's energy OVERPENETRATING its target in self defense. While you will get a better "blood trail" to follow, I see no advanages to this and plenty of disadvantages. Like a 240 grain JHP cooking though a bad guy, the wall behind him and the person on the other side of the wall. The 125 grain 357 magnum won't do this. In fact the 357 magnum 125 grain bullet will most likely stay inside the BG's body. In hunting over penetration is not that big of a deal. The round usually ends up in the ground or a tree. But in self defense in an urban environment you had better be concerned.

I could relly care less if it over penetrated. It blew a hole out the other side of the small doe the size of a fist. you could letteraly reach a hand inside of her and not touch sides. The deer was about 155lbs live. The expansion was unbeliveable. You could not take a hit like this and stay up if it was center mass. Not a chance in hell. you cant stay up with a 5" hole in your vitals. It also expanded very quickly. In my feeble mind i dont think much of the Chuck Hawks write up. He totaly missed how important penetration is. 115grn repidly expanding 9mm is not my idea of a good bullet. you need both penetrationand expansion. If i had to choose i would take penetration. That being said i would never carry my .44[/quote]

 

[hal.9000]

kgpcr,

Like I said. While a 44 magnum's over pentetration isn't that important in hunting, you might want to consider the self defense aspect of it. Hitting an innocent civilian while shooting through a BG will make at least very poor for the rest of your life, and at the most on jail on manslaughter charges.

As I also said before, shooting a deer in the rib cage at 25+ yards is somewhat different than shooting a BG center mass at 7 yards. In hunting, you need the energy of a 44 or larger to reliably perforate the deer whle aiming at the rib cage or shoulders. In self defense, you might not get lucky enought to hit bone at all. Unless you're using some kind of lightweight, high velocity self defense ammo, your "shoulder bustin'" deer ammo will likely pass through a person without expanding and over penetrate. Kind of like shooting a person with 44 caliber ball ammo.