[SDRider]

I wish I would have seen this section before starting my AR build, as I am sure you guys could have answered many of my questions. Main purpose of the build is just for messing around at the local outdoor range, the build is more of a bucket list item for me =). My knowledge about rifles is very limited so please bare with me, Im hoping to track my progress and questions in this thread as I go.

So far these are the things I have ordered to complete the lower: Is there anything else that I should be considering for this part of the build?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Spikes Zombie Stripped Lower
Spikes Standard LPK
Spikes Carbine Buffer Assembly Kit
Magpul MOE Hangrip (Drk Earth)
Magpul MOE Stock (Drk Earth)
Magpul MOE Trigger Guard (Drk Earth)

I was also looking at this upper from a local dealer, any opinions? Could I get better for cheaper?
http://www.parallaxtactical.com/store/pxt-extreme-16-5-56-nato-complete-upper-416-ss-barrel-904.html

 

[MPDC]

You might consider a high quality trigger suitable for your intended use. They are pricey though with most worthy ones coming in at around at least two hundred bucks. Worth it though in my opinion. I am always amazed at how many elect expensive rails, lights or sights and live with a stock combat type heavy trigger. Just my suggestion.

 

[XD40SCnYukonOK]

I agree on ditching the stock trigger. Its like dragging a cinder block through gravel. If you can imagine how that would feel with your finger.

 

[MikeXD.40]

I agree on ditching the stock trigger. Its like dragging a cinder block through gravel. If you can imagine how that would feel with your finger.

Giessle(<--sp) triggers!!!

 

[MPDC]

Giessle(<--sp) triggers!!!

+1 Geissele Automatics - Quality Triggers for the Warfighter and Competitor - Search=

 

[SDRider]

Thanks guys for the opinions. Wish I would have gotten some more info on this before purchasing the Standard Spikes Kit. Since the package has already shipped, I will probably just install it and perhaps upgrade down the line. Those Giessle match triggers at 200+ are out of my budge with the entire build anyway.

If I do decide to upgrade, can I just get an upgraded trigger assembly and drop it in with the existing Spikes kit? or will I also need to replace the hammer assembly as well?

 

[MPDC]

They come with trigger and hammer and installation is as easy as the stock. Yes , you will be able to upgrade later. I don't know that you could have bought a kit with a great trigger, not as a stock package anyway.

Just remember, when you consider the fancy upper , rail or BUIS, the trigger would probably make a better upgrade to do first. Primary sights and trigger first. The rest is just "tacticool" and adds weight.

 

[SDRider]

Thanks MPCD. I was originally looking at the RRA two stage trigger kits,but could not find any of them in stock. I will look into this more down the road, thanks for the input.

Im going to avoid the techno doo dads for now and just get something that I can enjoy at a reasonable price. I have a friend concurrently building his AR, and he is going way above and beyond what I feel is necessary and I think his total bill with the Optics he wanted came out just under 2 grand

 

[John A.]

You could've gotten a Palmetto State Armory or Surplus Ammo and Arms stripped lower for a lot less. Which are made by the same company that is currently making them for Spike's too for less than $60 shipped over the holiday weekend.

But it wouldn't have their markings on it.

Also, Palmetto and SAA have some good pricing on their uppers too. About a hundred less than what you're seeing there locally.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-complete-uppers.php

http://www.surplusammo.com/ar-15-upper-receivers/

 

[SDRider]

You could've gotten a Palmetto State Armory or Surplus Ammo and Arms stripped lower for a lot less. Which are made by the same company that is currently making them for Spike's too for less than $60 shipped over the holiday weekend.

But it wouldn't have their markings on it.

Also, Palmetto and SAA have some good pricing on their uppers too. About a hundred less than what you're seeing there locally.

AR Complete Uppers

AR-15 Upper Receivers - Surplus Ammo

"Face Palm"

Crap....ah well. Live and learn right ahahhaha....I have no idea why I dont hop on these forums before I make these big decisions!!

Thanks John, those links are very interesting. If you guys dont mind, Ill post up which uppers Im thinking about, and if y'all can tell me if its decent or worth the money that would be greatly appreciated!!!

PSA 16'' SS 223 Wylde YHM Upper w/ YHM Diamond rail
Is this decent??? To be honest I really like the looks of the quad rail. The description says it shoots both 223 and 5.56, does that go for all 223s? A friend said I should build an AR that is chambered for 5.56, which will also shoot the 223. Is that correct?

 

[SDRider]

and this one?

PSA 16'' 5.56 NATO Hammer Forged Upper with TRX Rail

Im interested in the 16" models since that is the minimum allowed in CA, but would there be benefit in going with a 20" or even 24"???

Also, can someone please break down what 1;7, 1:8, 1:9 twist means. I know this is in relation to the type of ammunition I will be firing. Am I correct? Again sorry for all the questions, I just want to avoid a bad purchase especially since my knowledge is so limited. If your in SOCAL ever though Ill buy you a beer and a fish taco =)

 

[Fdxpilot]

Im interested in the 16" models since that is the minimum allowed in CA, but would there be benefit in going with a 20" or even 24"???

That's actually the minimum anywhere, unless there is a permanently attached muzzle device to make the length over 16" (10.5" barrel+ 5.5" flash-hider is an extreme example I have seen.) Many states also allow SBR (Short Barrelled Rifles) if you go through the Federal NFA Tax Stamp process.

Personally, all my ARs are either 16 or 18" barrels. Unless you are going to be match shooting, or long range varmint hunting, the long barrels won't add much advantage (more muzzle velocity but more weight & more cumbersome.)

Also, can someone please break down what 1;7, 1:8, 1:9 twist means. I know this is in relation to the type of ammunition I will be firing. Am I correct? Again sorry for all the questions, I just want to avoid a bad purchase especially since my knowledge is so limited. If your in SOCAL ever though Ill buy you a beer and a fish taco =)

The Rate of Twist (RoT) is given as a ratio of how far the bullet must travel to spin on full revolution (360 degrees), this is normally written as 1:7 or 1/7 or One in Seven &#8211; simply meaning that the rifling makes one full turn in every seven inches of barrel. Therefore, 1:7 is a faster twist than 1:9, as it take the bullet 2 more inches to make a full rotation.

1:7 is the current military spec. 1:8 is typically found in Stainless steel barrels. 1:9 is generally found on less expensive barrels.
Faster twists are required for longer bullets, which generally are heavier, but not always. M855 military ammo has a steel penetrator insert, which displaces lead in the bullet. So a 62gr M855 bullet might actually be longer than a 69gr HPBT match bullet, requiring a faster twist. The military actually went to 1:7 twist to stabilize the M855 and it's M856 Tracer variant under all weather conditions. Some solid copper rounds (Barnes TSX for example,) are also longer than an equivalent copper jacketed lead round. Typically, a 1:7 barrel can stabilize bullets from 50-80gr, although I have shot 45gr varmint rounds from a 1:7 LMT barrel with no problem. 1:8 can also handle that range down to about 40gr, while 1:9 can handle 35-69gr. Also, individual barrels may vary some in twist, so a given 1:9 barrel might handle a 77gr round, but odds are it wont stabilize them at long range (over 150yd or so.)

If you know you will never shoot the heavier rounds, like 77 or 75gr, then you will most likely be just as happy with a 1:9 barrel. Personally, all my .223/5.56 ARs (Daniels Defense, Colt, BCM) have true NATO chambers with 1:7 barrels, but that is just my personal preference. Also, my prefered home defense round is Hornady 75gr TAP, so I need the faster twist.

 

[Oneeek020]

Op?



1 x Spike's Tactical Nickel Boron M16 BCG (223/5.56)
1 x ST Enhanced Lower Parts Kit
1 x Tactical Pivoting QR Vertical Foregrip with Integrated Adjustable Bipod - Gen 2
3+2 x MAGPUL 30 Round Standard Polymer Magazine With Window
1 x MAGPUL Milspec CTR Stock Kit - Black
1 x Noveske N4 5.56 Light Recce Basic Light Recce Upper
1 x MAGPUL MOE Polymer Rail Section L3 (3.25 inch) - Black
1 x MAGPUL MOE Midlength Handguards - Black
1 x Noveske Stripped 5.56MM Lower Receiver
1 x Viking Tactics Padded Sling (VTAC) MK2 - Black
1 x RRA Domintor2 EoTech mount
1 x EoTech 512

Holding off on a light until I find a good price.

Total price $2,200.00 with s/h, build and FFL. I should have it in my hands between 9/16/11 and 9/23/11. I don't think I could be happier !!!!!!!!

 

[John A.]

Also, my prefered home defense round is Hornady 75gr TAP, so I need the faster twist.

For the distances associated with home defense, even the 1:9 will shoot the heavy stuff accurately enough. I have a 1:9 barrel and 75 gr Hornady match HP on standby as well.

It's just when you start getting way out there is when you may see unstability problems with the groups opening up (and worst case; possible keyholing). But the 1:9 barrel will still shoot them plenty good enough to be able to hit something with at closer distances just as good as any other barrel. And just FWIW, I consider anything about 50 yards and under HD distances.

But the faster 1:7 twist rate is better for the heavy stuff overall and seem to do good with the lighter bullets too.

I just wanted to clarify that the 1:7 does better with the heavy bullets at a longer distance if comparing to a 1:9 twist.

As for which upper to get between the two you listed, I would opt for the 5.56 chamber and 1:7 twist and TRX forend.

I just don't care a whole lot about the Wylde chamber in the other one.

And the hammer forged/lined FN barrel should serve you well for a long time to come.

Just my 2 cents

 

[MPDC]

For the distances associated with home defense, even the 1:9 will shoot the heavy stuff accurately enough. I have a 1:9 barrel and 75 gr Hornady match HP on standby as well.

It's just when you start getting way out there is when you may see unstability problems with the groups opening up (and worst case; possible keyholing). But the 1:9 barrel will still shoot them plenty good enough to be able to hit something with at closer distances just as good as any other barrel. And just FWIW, I consider anything about 50 yards and under HD distances.

But the faster 1:7 twist rate is better for the heavy stuff overall and seem to do good with the lighter bullets too.

I just wanted to clarify that the 1:7 does better with the heavy bullets at a longer distance if comparing to a 1:9 twist.

As for which upper to get between the two you listed, I would opt for the 5.56 chamber and 1:7 twist and TRX forend.

I just don't care a whole lot about the Wylde chamber in the other one.

And the hammer forged/lined FN barrel should serve you well for a long time to come.

Just my 2 cents

TRUE. Remember also, the 1/9 is better for light, "varmint type" loads in the 40 grn. range used for hunting prarie dogs , rabbits, etc. Intended use should always dictate choice of bbl. twist. 1/8 may be the new "best compromise" that the 1/9 used to represent before the very heaviest loads became available.

 

[SDRider]

That's actually the minimum anywhere, unless there is a permanently attached muzzle device to make the length over 16" (10.5" barrel+ 5.5" flash-hider is an extreme example I have seen.) Many states also allow SBR (Short Barrelled Rifles) if you go through the Federal NFA Tax Stamp process.

Personally, all my ARs are either 16 or 18" barrels. Unless you are going to be match shooting, or long range varmint hunting, the long barrels won't add much advantage (more muzzle velocity but more weight & more cumbersome.)



The Rate of Twist (RoT) is given as a ratio of how far the bullet must travel to spin on full revolution (360 degrees), this is normally written as 1:7 or 1/7 or One in Seven &#8211; simply meaning that the rifling makes one full turn in every seven inches of barrel. Therefore, 1:7 is a faster twist than 1:9, as it take the bullet 2 more inches to make a full rotation.

1:7 is the current military spec. 1:8 is typically found in Stainless steel barrels. 1:9 is generally found on less expensive barrels.
Faster twists are required for longer bullets, which generally are heavier, but not always. M855 military ammo has a steel penetrator insert, which displaces lead in the bullet. So a 62gr M855 bullet might actually be longer than a 69gr HPBT match bullet, requiring a faster twist. The military actually went to 1:7 twist to stabilize the M855 and it's M856 Tracer variant under all weather conditions. Some solid copper rounds (Barnes TSX for example,) are also longer than an equivalent copper jacketed lead round. Typically, a 1:7 barrel can stabilize bullets from 50-80gr, although I have shot 45gr varmint rounds from a 1:7 LMT barrel with no problem. 1:8 can also handle that range down to about 40gr, while 1:9 can handle 35-69gr. Also, individual barrels may vary some in twist, so a given 1:9 barrel might handle a 77gr round, but odds are it wont stabilize them at long range (over 150yd or so.)

If you know you will never shoot the heavier rounds, like 77 or 75gr, then you will most likely be just as happy with a 1:9 barrel. Personally, all my .223/5.56 ARs (Daniels Defense, Colt, BCM) have true NATO chambers with 1:7 barrels, but that is just my personal preference. Also, my prefered home defense round is Hornady 75gr TAP, so I need the faster twist.

MPCD/John Thank you guys for the detailed explanation! Im still undecided right now on the upper. 600 is alot of money in these times, and I am wondering if Im getting the best bang for my buck so to speak.

Are there are any uppers available right now that you guys know of that are similar to the ones that I have posted? But better (i know that may be a subjective term)?

 

[John A.]

1/8 may be the new "best compromise" that the 1/9 used to represent before the very heaviest loads became available.

Actually, the 1:8 twist has been around longer than the 1:7

Olympic Arms used a 1:8 twist barrel option in their premium line (Sum/Broach cut barrels) for well more than a decade now.

The 1:7 didn't come into being until the SPR project ~2000/2002 when the very first 70+ gr bullets first started appearing.

Of course, other companies make 1:8 barrels now to, but Olympic was the first to offer it as an option.

Just like they were the first to make the flat top upper and freefloat forend's that everyone likes too.

But you won't hear about that on most forums.

SDrider, as for bang for the buck, it would be hard to beat the PSA offerings for the cost compared to what you get.

 

[deviljon]

That's actually the minimum anywhere, unless there is a permanently attached muzzle device to make the length over 16" (10.5" barrel+ 5.5" flash-hider is an extreme example I have seen.) Many states also allow SBR (Short Barrelled Rifles) if you go through the Federal NFA Tax Stamp process.

Curious to what this looks like.. any pics? Is this setup good for anything other than "for fun"?

 

[John A.]

Any rifle with a barrel less than 16 inches or overall length of less than 26", requires a tax stamp.

Above are a couple of SBR's, silencers, and a submachinegun.

And probably not legal in California

 

[SDRider]

Any rifle with a barrel less than 16 inches or overall length of less than 26", requires a tax stamp.

Above are a couple of SBR's, silencers, and a submachinegun.

And probably not legal in California

Hahah yea probably not legal in CA john. Awesome collection you have there!

I am sooooooo close to saying F it, and ordering the PSA 5.56, 1:7 twist, TRX forend. As you were saying, Im not seeing much else available similar for anywhere near that price.