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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone! Have been reading the board for a while, thank you all for your valuable contributions.

I recently had SA custom shop do some work on my XD including complete hard chrome and a competition trigger job (except a little heavier pull - I asked for 4 to 5 lbs). There is also the Don's rod with a 22 lbs spring installed. Ever since the gun came back I have a nagging feeling they might have screwed something up because on two occasions I had a cartridge not feed all the way but the gun still tried to fire (I heard/felt the click). The primer got dimpled but the cartridge didn't fire. So today I tried to replicate the problem with the following steps:

IF YOU TRY THIS PLEASE MAKE SURE YOUR GUN IS UNLOADED!
  1. Removed the magazine and made sure there is no cartridge in the chamber.
  2. With the grip safety pressed and the trigger released I pulled the slide back and slowly let it return until the striker status indicator (cocking indicator) was just visible inside its hole, about 1/16th on an inch (1.5mm) below the back surface of the slide. This is about 1/8th of an inch from all the way forward.
  3. Pressed the trigger; the striker got released. At this point while still pressing the trigger I could release the slide and it would stop about 1/8th of an inch from all the way forward.
  4. Released the trigger and the slide jumped all the way forward to full battery.
Also, with the grip safety released I can pull the slide back about 3/8th of an inch while either cocked or not.

Could you please see if your guns work this way too? Again, please do it safely.

I think being able to fire a gun out of battery is a big safety issue. Mine didn't fire but probably could with a softer primer. I will call SA about this but would like to know if other people's guns behave the same way or if mine is functioning abnormally.


Thanks!
 

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Does it for me too, except the round got fired.

Just kidding. But it does do it.
 

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bardy said:
Hello everyone! Have been reading the board for a while, thank you all for your valuable contributions.


IF YOU TRY THIS PLEASE MAKE SURE YOUR GUN IS UNLOADED!
  1. Removed the magazine and made sure there is no cartridge in the chamber.
  2. With the grip safety pressed and the trigger released I pulled the slide back and slowly let it return until the striker status indicator (cocking indicator) was just visible inside its hole, about 1/16th on an inch (1.5mm) below the back surface of the slide. This is about 1/8th of an inch from all the way forward.
  3. Pressed the trigger; the striker got released. At this point while still pressing the trigger I could release the slide and it would stop about 1/8th of an inch from all the way forward.
  4. Released the trigger and the slide jumped all the way forward to full battery.
Also, with the grip safety released I can pull the slide back about 3/8th of an inch while either cocked or not.

Could you please see if your guns work this way too? Again, please do it safely.
Ok - I did what you requested - I think.....
I think you're saying to try and fire with the slide slightly back - and there is a cut off point for mine to fire - just past the 1/8" point.

Also can rack the slide about 3/8" without the grip safety pressed.

However, I don't have grave concerns about this being an unsafe function. Finger off the trigger is the only true safety. If I'm pulling the trigger I WANT it to fire.
 

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How ironic.

Today i was dry firing and i noticed the same thing. I could press against the front of the slide, a significant amount, and i could still get the firing pin to travel when i pulled the trigger. I thouht this was not possible.
 

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Remeber there is the internal block safety that does not get lifted out of the way if the slide is out of battery. From a quick look at my XD-40 it apears that if the slide is more than about a 1/16 of an inch out of battery the block safety will not be lifted and although the stiker is dropped it should not strike the cartridge.

mcb
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for (somewhat) good news - at least my gun seems to be in line with yours so far. Still would like to talk to SA about this.

cadmonkey said:
If I'm pulling the trigger I WANT it to fire.
cadmonkey, I'm with you on this. I just want all the hot stuff to leave in the general direction where the gun is pointing and not in my face. :shock:

I am not sure how bad would it be if the cartridge went off with barrel not completely locked. Could the case rapture? If it did I assume the hot gases would blow out of every hole in and under the slide. Would this damage the gun? The hand that's holding it? The rest of me? :wink:
 

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Sure, it could, depends on case pressures, brass integrity, etc. And I too want it to go downrange, just indicating that if I'm pulling the trigger, I better be obeying the rules and pointing it at something I want to destroy. :)
 

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As posted above there is a firing pin block safety. This will prevent the gun from firing out of battery. When the slide isn't fully foward, when the trigger is pulled the FP will be released and the slide will close. There can be a very light FP mark on the primer, but not like a normal FP hit on the primer. When the slide isn't closing all the way is a sign that the recoil spring is wearing out, the ammo is out of spec ( bad reloads), or the slide is being slowed down by your grip ( thumb riding on the slide).
Later,
Rich
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Rich, thanks for your comments!

The maks on the unfired primer were probably half deep as on the fired ones. In a perfect world I would expect FP safety not to disengage until the barrel is completely locked so no FP marks at all... I guess I'm overreacting a bit but I saw what firing of a .308 out of battery looks like and it wasn't pretty.

Putting the "what happened" aside I'd like to know if chroming the barrel could have made the chamber too tight for a slightly oversized load to go in. These weren't reloads but WWB rounds.

Thumbing could have been the reason too but probably not the spring - I had a 22 lbs spring with 200 rounds on it at the time.
 

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bardy,
The chamber should not have been hard chromed. If it was it may have to be cleaned up.
Rich
 

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first of all hello
in gun school they told us that as long as the barrel was halfway to the lock point it was acceptable
try sticking a number 2 pencil with a good eraser in there and watch it fly
 

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Discussion Starter #12
RIIID said:
The chamber should not have been hard chromed. If it was it may have to be cleaned up.
You're right, it isn't! Just never looked at it under a good enough light to notice. This leaves either a non-standard brass or my thumb... :? Will try to watch fo either, thanks for the suggestion.

persistent said:
try sticking a number 2 pencil with a good eraser in there and watch it fly
What should I watch for? Difference in speed/distance between the full FP strike and the partial one?
 

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no, the pencil is just a safe way to see if the FP is contacting the eraser. if you try it you will see that pencil goes about the same out of battery or locked up because of the recoil spring. my xd does exactly the same as yours appears to. if you notice the forward part of the barrel is halfway up the slide before the disconnector will allow the peice to fire. in my opinion this is just as safe as most other pistols. the case is mostly supported and shouldn't do any harm.
another difference between the glock and xd is the internal vs external extractor. i had a glock 22 with some fiochi that we found out the hard way it was loaded way hot. i found out shooting it, the magazine dropped out, the extractor disappeared, my hand was throbbing, and i had a blob of brass in the gun. this happened twice before we figured out it was the ammo and both times glock fixed it with no questions. anyway the external extractor was like a pressure relief
i wonder what would have happened if it was an internal extractor, probably nothing
i still think the xd is a better pistol
these are just opinions
thanx for listening(or reading)
 

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Same thing happened to mine when i had it hard-chromed.

Essentially you have a new gun with new wear characterisitics.
Here's what to do:

Buy a heavier guide rod spring. 22# is good.

Take some 600 grit wet-dry sandpaper. Wet sand your slide where the barrel engages for lock up. Turn it over and hit the area just in front of the ejection port. Work on it for about 15 minutes.

Reassemble, and hand rack and dry fire gun for 1000 times. Yep, a 1000.

Buy a 1000 rounds of WWB and go to the range. Fire every last one.

That should do it. :D



When my gun returned from SA, i sent it back. they essentially did nothing, they found nothing wrong. So i took care of it myself.

PM me if you have any other questions.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well, here is an update if anybody's interested...

I talked to a couple of people at SA about this. They couldn't say anything specific but proposed that I send the gun in so they can have a look. I decided to let it break in a little more per mullanman's suggestion; will watch closely for FTFs and save the cartridge if this happens again. Please keep your fingers crossed for me! I'd really hate to have a problem with this gun...
 

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bardy said:
Thanks for (somewhat) good news - at least my gun seems to be in line with yours so far. Still would like to talk to SA about this.

cadmonkey said:
If I'm pulling the trigger I WANT it to fire.
cadmonkey, I'm with you on this. I just want all the hot stuff to leave in the general direction where the gun is pointing and not in my face. :shock:

I am not sure how bad would it be if the cartridge went off with barrel not completely locked. Could the case rapture? If it did I assume the hot gases would blow out of every hole in and under the slide. Would this damage the gun? The hand that's holding it? The rest of me? :wink:

Remember that just because the slide isn't all the way forward doesn't mean that the barrel isn't locked. That's how delayed-blowback actions work; the barrel stays locked to the slide for the first part of the recoil travel, then unlocks once pressure levels have had a chance to drop.

Push back on the slide and watch the chamber. See how far back you have to push the slide before the chamber drops.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I sent an email to Megan in SA around the time I posted this. Just got a reply today (she was out of the office).
[...] If the slide is back 1/8 of an inch it is still not totally out of battery. The round would still be supported well enough if it was to fire off. When you hold the trigger in during dry fire the firing pin safety lever pushes up tight on the firing pin safety. That holds the slide in place. Once you start to release the trigger the pressure is reduced and the slide goes forward. You have nothing to be worried about it is not firing out of battery. The ammo you are using is probably causing this to happen while shooting. Do you know what kind of ammo you were using when this happened? If you continue to have this happen and you are using factory ammo, then I would suggest sending it in to be inspected. [...]
And from another message...
Yes, you can post this, thank you for asking.

P.S. Tell everyone I said hi! :)
I had about 600 rounds though the gun since then without a single malfunction. I think this was either a dirty chamber or just a break-in hiccup. I now consider this issue closed. So if you have something like this happen to you during the first 300 or so rounds don't get too upset and just give it some time.
 
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