[Mountain Cop]

Ok, not that we haven't hashed it to death over and over already... but I have cash available for a finish for my 4" now. I want something hard. This will be a full time duty gun within the next few months. I work in a mountain area. This gun will see mud, rain etc. While I always keep my guns oiled, and have never had a rust problem, there is significant holster wear and the gun is due for a new finish. I briefly thought about an OD finish to match the frame on my SC Perhaps we could someday have a sticky'd "finish picture thread" which would make this much easier. Anyhow... For those of you with pics, I'd like to see them. I have read many reviews already, but perhaps we can somewhat combine the pics and reviews "for once and for all". Thoughts?

 

[I_Route]

Springfield offers "Black T" which is a black Teflon type coating. Much more durable than the stock finish which is like their Blast Blue. The Black T comes in black or OD. They send out your slide to a guy in Mississippi. (Forget his name). Right now the turn around time is 8-10 weeks. Costs $145.00 USD + shipping to SA.

HTH

 

[LeMat]

I've had Jeff at Falcon Gun Finishing refinish three guns for me and he'll be doing another one here shortly.

Work is outstanding, finishes are uber tough (no teflon here), good turnaround, does work for some major custom shops (Serengeti being only one of them). And Jeff is just a helluva good guy.

He's got a new product, "Ceramic" that is about as tough as anything I've seen. Tougher, actually. Looks very cool.

 

[[TASF]Overkill]

Now seriously... if you cut a gun in teflon....

Ever touched a teflon pan with a knife or fork? Notice how quickly teflon scratches off?

I was going to do some website work for the guy who does BlackICE (I think) refinishing... but I read more closely about his finish, which he was going to give me in payment... and, it's teflon... so I asked him about it.... No, it will not hold up well to carry wear.

Is Black T really teflon? If so, how in the hell can it be anywhere near as durable as, say, their Armory Kote?

 

[The Tegnu]

If you don't mind a "white" finish, hard chrome is probably the toughest finish you can get for around 100 bucks.

 

[mullanman]

Robar NP3 finish...

250$ for your complete gun. Do all of the internals as well. It doesn't add thickness to your gun. Do break your gun in well prior to having it refinished with anything..

 

[DevL]

Black T is Teflon and graphite. Better than Teflon but its not hard chrome. If you want wear resistance get hard chrome if you want black or OD get black or green T.

 

[dolanp]

What's the best black finish? I'm not really into the bling.

I guess they do have black chrome huh? Is that just a coat of some kind of black finish on top of chrome or is it black through and through?

 

[DevL]

Black chrome is NOT the same as hard chrome. It lacks all the features that make hard chrome so good as a finish. Its not as resistant to corrosion as hard chrome and not as hard/scratch resistant as hard chrome.

Is uses non electroless nickle plating and black "decorative chrome" on top. The nickle is inferior to electoless nickle (which is yellow) due to adhesion and the black chrome is not directly bonded to the firearm like hard chrome but to the intermediate bright nickle layer. The scratch resistance is inferior to electroless nickle (but better than Black T) and the corrosion reisitance is inferior to Black T, electroless nickle and hard chrome. Black chrome is prone to rusting and flaking like decorrative chromes.

Think of black chrome as a bright nickle finish that happens to be dark grey. Not the best for scratch resistance nor the most corrosion reisitant but much better than blueing.

If an item is directly black chromed it provides VERY POOR corrosion resistance and the color can be splotchy.

 

[dpwdave]

http://www.trippresearch.com/chrome/chrome.htm

 

[one-eyed-fatman]

The very best finish I believe you can get is Titanium Nitrate or something of that nature. Check with http://www.apwcogan.com/. Yes it is expensive.
They don't advertise it. You will have to email them.

 

[mr0w1]

dpwdave! there's that gun again.

 

[dpwdave]

dpwdave! there's that gun again.

mr0w1, sometimes I think I post that pic just to torment you... :wink:
shame on me.

 

[Pearl Mussin]

http://www.trippresearch.com/chrome/chrome.htm

I love the look... How much did it cost you? did you send them the whole gun?

Thanks


Jeremy

 

[DanaT]

DevL,

I don't know where to start. However, your statements are wrong. You speak about electroless nickel. Are you talking low, med or high phos? Now, I am sure you will try and argue with me, but if you don't know the difference between a simple question that I just asked, then you should probably be able to figure out I know a little tiny bit about plating and/or metal corrosion.

If you people want descriptions of plating processes (what I think is good bad or indifferent) do a search and look for other posts that I have had.

-Dana

 

[one-eyed-fatman]

This is from the http://www.apwcogan.com/black_chrome_plating.htm site.

BLACK CHROME PLATING

Black Chrome is the second hardest black finish available for firearms and the hardest finish available at a reasonable price. It is the premier finish when concealment is the first priority.


Black Chrome has many of the same properties as regular chrome. However, in changing the plated deposit from a Light Grey color to Jet Black, we diminish two major properties of regular chrome, hardness and abrasion resistance.


Black Chrome is slightly harder than Nickel. It was never intended to be a highly wear resistant finish, like Hard Chrome. It has much greater wear resistance than any form of Bluing (Black Oxide) and due to the presence of Nickel, or Chrome, as a base coat, a greater corrosion resistance than a single coating of Chrome, or Nickel the to the base metal.

Some of our clients are adamant about Black Finishes. This is the best bang for your dollar, if you are stuck on Black. For technical reasons we only offer this finish in a Matte surface texture and suggest the use of a wax impregnated oil on the exposed surface. Brownells offers a water soluble oil “Pro-Sheen” that is wax impregnated and works well on Black Chrome at two parts oil to one part water.

Key words here are "Black Chrome is the second hardest black finish ". Ask these guys about the first hardest black finish.

 

[gonzo]

I've never had a gun refinished, so correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that NP3 (a recognized good finish) is a new nickel plating process that has teflon in it. This electroless nickel is hard and corrosion resistant. It is NOT teflon like on your baking pans. However the teflon is chemically deposited with the nickel forming a self-lubricating finish. Not black, but just pointing out that the word Teflon does not necessarily mean "soft finish".

 

[DanaT]

Ok,

I will go over NP3 once again. NP3 is an electroless nickel plating process that has small PTFE (teflon) particles co-deposited with the nickel. Therefore it has self lubricating properties of the teflon while still being hard. This finish IS NOT, i repeat, IS NOT, a Robar exclusive process. This is an indutrially available plating process. They just happened to buy $500 worth of chemicals (about 100 gallons) and can coat 500-1000 pistols with it. Now, my math may not be the best, but 500*$250= $125000. Not bad investment huh? Buy $500 worth of chemicals (ok, add 2000-3000 worth of equipment), add a little labor, and turn around and make $125K.

Here is section through a nickel-teflon plated part. You can see the base metal (aluminum), and intermediate layer (electroless nickel), and on top the electroless nickel-PTFE layer. The PTFE is all the little "spots".

-Dana

 

[stealthsniper]

Here is section through a nickel-teflon plated part. You can see the base metal (aluminum), and intermediate layer (electroless nickel), and on top the electroless nickel-PTFE layer. The PTFE is all the little "spots".

That's a damn cool photo. It's always neat seeing how things actually work rather than just listening to the marketing hype.