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Discussion Starter #1
Federal JHP 185 grain
So I tested my personal defense ammo this weekend and I'm now left in wonder. We were shooting at an unopened water bottle that sat on a sand backstop. After I dug out the slug from the sand I was amazed to see that the copper jacket was seperated from the lead core. Is this common? Is this good or bad?

I saw that the speer gold dots do not seperated from the cooper jacket and everyone says those are the best defense rounds.

Thoughts?
:-?
 

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Water is hard on bullets; stripping the jacket when shooting it is not an unusual occurrence. It also seems to be harder on the lightweight, high velocity rounds for any given caliber.

Yes, the newer Gold Dots are bonded, and shouldn't strip the jacket. So are Ranger-T, PDX-1, HST, and Golden Saber Bonded...

Personally, I'd stay away from 185 gr .45...230 is a better choice.

Read this: Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo
 

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Water is hard on bullets; stripping the jacket when shooting it is not an unusual occurrence. It also seems to be harder on the lightweight, high velocity rounds for any given caliber.

Yes, the newer Gold Dots are bonded, and shouldn't strip the jacket. So are Ranger-T, PDX-1, HST, and Golden Saber Bonded...

Personally, I'd stay away from 185 gr .45...230 is a better choice.

Read this: Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo
Yep, sand isn't a good medium either. I have tested the 185grHishok in wetpack. It always expands to 72cal+ & never looses the jacket. Penetration is quite limited by the large frontal dia. It works better in shorter bbl guns @ slightly reduced vel IMO, expanding a bit less & penetrating further.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Personally, I'd stay away from 185 gr .45...230 is a better choice.
I hear this alot but I am worried about over penetration (kids & close neighbors). The bullet sank into the sand about 8 or 9 inches after the water bottle. Seems good enough to enter a body. lighter bullets I thought equal faster bullets.
 

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I hear this alot but I am worried about over penetration (kids & close neighbors). The bullet sank into the sand about 8 or 9 inches after the water bottle. Seems good enough to enter a body. lighter bullets I thought equal faster bullets.
You are correct. If you want a lower penetrating round, lighter/faster JHP will slow down sooner in any medium. There are few bad SD loads in 45acp. I carry 185gr or 200gr std vel loads in my short 45s, softer shooting & still enough vel for some expansion. It also means greater penetration than you get from longer bbls.
 

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I hear this alot but I am worried about over penetration (kids & close neighbors). The bullet sank into the sand about 8 or 9 inches after the water bottle. Seems good enough to enter a body. lighter bullets I thought equal faster bullets.
Most (not all) 185gr rounds won't penetrate the 12"+ that is the standard for the most effiicient SD rounds. Remember--odds are, you won't have a square-on, unobstructed chest shot at "the moment". You may well have to go through an arm first, or they'll be presenting at the oblique--or both. For a good example, measure from the outside of your right bicep to your left nipple...personally, I'd want a bullet that would punch at least that far.

And, most properly functioning JHPs do not exit the body. The few that do are either found in exit side clothing, or laying on the ground a few feet beyond the exit point...those rounds are not going to be a threat, they are spent at that point. They are defintiely not going to punch through a wall. I'd rather have a round that will get good penetration, and run the slgiht risk of overpenetration, than use a round that won't get deep enough, requiring more shots, and increasing the chance of a round going wild.

(Cuda66 is a former strong believer in the 185gr Winchester Silvertip, until he firsthand saw one fail spectacularly against a large canine)
 
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