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Discussion Starter #1
As much as a purist as I end up being, be it fly fishing or shooting, I am leaning heavily on pushing my 1911's out the door and stocking up on the XD. With the flawless operation and excellent accuracy of the XD's being reaffirmed during a shoot yesterday, as well as having a stovepipe and the rear sight coming loose on my SA UC 1911....why have a freaking $600-$700 handgun that always seems to creep up with an issue here or there...I'll keep my old school 1911 for nostalgia's sake, but the Springfield Ultra Compact is heading to the trade in counter at the local shop, in favor of an XD 45GAP...I've had it with keeping the faith in my ultra compact 1911. My XD40 has been my best friend since it came home with me, amazing weapon and a true turn in the industry.

Sorry, just had to vent that one out. Another fella at the area we were shooting in was having ejoector issues and stovepipes with his SA Mil Spec yesterday too, I let him know he's not alone. Love the weapon, hate the issues. After taking a few clips and running them through my XD, he was sold on the platform as well.
 

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Sorry to hear about the 1911. For years manufacturers have been turning out junk, off and on. Nothing runs or shoots like a 5" 1911 when they are done right but too often the mass produced ones are a crapshoot. My friend and smith sent a Kimber frame back to HQ that was so out of spec that all Kimber could say was it should have never left the factory. Fellow competition shooter calls one of his Springfields a monday gun. It happens with all of them. My custom 1911 however has 3k thru it with 2 slide nudges in the first 250 rounds and 1 slide tap in the last 2750 rounds with reloads. Accurate and you just can't beat a GOOD(not crappy) 1911 trigger. There are good factory 1911's but you pay your money and you take your chances.

I like my xd but it was purchased for specific uses. It is reliable and accurate enough. However, it will not replace my 1911's.
 

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Brother, I hear you. I carried the 1911 for decades, and over 25 years I have owned or been issued 12-14 of them. Out of all those, exactly THREE of them have been trouble-free. One was a 1991A1 Commander, and the other was a GI 1945 Ithaca that had been rebuilt by the good folks at the Army Marksmanship Unit.

We made the switch to XD40's recently as our "outfit standard sidearm", and it was a good move. They are compact, reasonably light, accurate enough and absolutely reliable with good ammo. All we need now are some 12-round mags to complete the package.

I recently bought a MilSpec .45, and right off the bat, found that it had a bad barrel. Springfield replaced the barrel with their best model (like they use in the Trophy Match/TRP guns) and it shoots great now, and has been absolutely reliable with anything I want to feed it.

Story here: http://www.hs2000talk.com/viewtopic.php?t=19165&highlight=

Having spent a long time with the 1911, and about 12 years running LE firearms qualifications, will teach you a few things about the 1911. One of them is this- for reliability, stay away from anything shorter than the true Commanders, with a 4 1/4" barrel. Springfield, like several others, insists on using the shorter "cone barrel" format. They'll work for awhile, but they are damn hard on recoil springs and the magazines really need pumped-up springs to offset the slide's shorter cycle length and dwell time.

Good luck with sorting out your handgun battery.
 

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Sorry, I just can't agree with you on principle. My Springfield 5" "loaded" 1911 will outshoot my XDs (xd40 tac and XD9 service) all day long.

There are a LOT of people having trouble with 1911s from what I read on other forums. But this is mostly due to all the changes made by manufacturers. Different extractors, too short barrels or actions, polymer or alloy frames, etc. I also believe the "limp wristing" excuse is over used. All three of my sons and both of my daughter in laws (both have only been to the pistol range twice in their lifetimes) have shot my 1911 with no problems at all.

I might feel different if I had a problem child 1911 and I will admit I have passed up buying a number of ultra compact 1911s that I REALLY wanted (for fear of problems) but I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Government or Commander sized all steel Springfield for the right price.
 

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I have to agree with invssgt about the barrel liength issue. 4.25" is the absolute minimum barrel liength for reliable functioning in a 1911 style platform. I have seen far too many of the mini 1911's choke even on hardball to ever want one much less carry one for a self defense gun. There are some excellent small .45 ACP autos out there but none of them are 1911s.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I think the issue is simply the barrel length on the 1911's, flat out. I agree with MoJo on that one, anything shorter than the 4" is generally apt to have a few more issues. I had to send mine in within the first month of owning it to have the extractor replaced, Springfield is great about help, but I cannot rely on a weapon as my defense sidearm if I consistently run into issues with FTE's and stovepipes. Like I said, I am a purist and love the 1911 and it's heritage, I carried one in the Marine Corps before the 92FS (Funkified SH!*) was issued as a duty weapon. It's not truly a divorce, but rather a shift in preference.

Until my XD proves me wrong and has issues, it will be my new best friend. Can't wait to try out the 45GAP.
 

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Well, my primary carry is a 3.5" Para LDA Companion and it has never failed to function correctly. Also have a Colt Officers that has fed and functioned correctly. Both have steel frames. I get an occasional stove pipe in any pistol I shoot, but can't blame limp wristing on the gun.
I have noticed some of the "Light Weight" aluminum frame short barrel 1911s have some problems.
I guess overall though, I can't say that I have seen any more failures in the short 1911s than the full size models.

But I will agree that if you have problems with any gun you carry for self-defense or duty, you either fix the problem or get rid of it.

I enjoy my tupperware guns, but my 1911s will always have a home.
 

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I won't own a 1911 shorter than a Commander length. Yes, I'm sure there are reliable "shorties" out there, but I have seen too many problems with these, no matter what brand is involved. Timing is critical with this design, shorter, lighter slides move too fast which throws the timing off and can cause malfunctions. I've never seen a decent basic 5" 1911 that couldn't be tweaked a little to produce great reliability. I've had problems getting some Commander length guns to work, but with enough patience it can be done. I've seen shorter versions like the Officers model, that defied any and all attempts at getting 100% reliability.
 

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Springfield is offering a compact 1911 for the .45 GAP that looks promising. Handguns magazine ran an article on it but there is nothing about it on the Springfield website.
 

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I will never get rid of my 1911's. In my opinion they are the greatest American handgun design ever, bar none. Even if it was designed by a Mormon :D

But I will admit they are not without their troubles. In particular, the Ultra Compact (Officer's size) operate within a very tight range of parameters. They are difficult to get running correctly. Springfield does not exactly have a stellar reputation for making their Ultra Compacts run consistently. Some of the same can be said for Kimber, to a lesser extent. It's kind of hard to mess up a 5" 1911, and Springfield does a pretty good job with them. In fact, the Milspec is probably the best gun, dollar for dollar, they make. Some corner-cutting on the Loaded guns is inevitable, though, for them to be profitable.

The other Big Problem with the 1911 is the fact that they are so prevalent. Everyone is making one, and few can resist putting their own little spins and "improvements" on the design. More often than not these are the source of many of the problems that you hear about with 1911's. That, and poorly designed and/or constructed magazines.

These days I am a staunch Colt fan, at least regarding 1911's. No other maker really has the collective experience that Colt's does with the 1911, and they can generally be counted upon to get the basic gun right -- at least these days. The new 1991A1s are some of the best 1911s I've ever seen.

I can't deny, however, that Colt's has stepped on their corporate pecker more than once in the recent past. (The wild QC variations of the 80's and some downright abysmal ideas such as the series 70 collet bushing and the Double Eagle spring to mind.)

Now my carry gun is an aluminum-framed Colt Lightweight Commander. This provides, in my estimation, the optimal blend of firepower, reliability, and "carryability."
 

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Ken...

You & I think a whole lot alike. Scary for you, isn't it? :shock: About the only thing I'll add is that I decided a long time ago, that I wasn't going to limit myself to just American designs. The Sig 220 and the XD have proved, to my satisfaction, that this was a good plan.

Most of the Colt QC problems that I have seen began with the 70 series guns, and ended with the introduction of the 1991-A1s. This is not to say that they didn't make some decent 70-80 guns... they were just harder to find in those batches.

Agree 100% on the design itself; if there's one thing I am sure of, it is this- the further you stray from the original blueprint, the more problems you are going to have. The gun would never have made its battle reputation through two world wars and a half-dozen undeclared fracases, if it were being made then, by some of the bozo outfits who are making them today. I won't own a 1911 with a Schwartz safety, front serrations, ambi-saftey, MIM extractors or any of that other crap that detracts from the smooth, reliable operation and presentation-reholstering of the gun. The basic gun is still the best way to go, if you want it to work. The Colt 80 safety is perhaps the one actual 1911 design improvement that is an improvement, and that has been proven trouble-free.

I'm pretty much a Colt man myself, but our local dealers can't seem to get new ones at the moment (I have tried to order TWO in the last 3 months); and some of them, who have a nice used one or two, are just blood-suckers- and are asking $700+ for the damn things, screaming "Colt isn't making anymore!" Bastards.

I also agree that a good, basic lightweight Commander (properly set-up of course) makes one heck of a fine carry gun. All they really need is decent well-zeroed sights; a shootable trigger, a good extractor, and decent magazines.

Of course, nobody has to agree with any of this. Y'all can be wrong if you want to :lol:

If you'll excuse me now, it's time for my morning ritual where I go outside, face east (Hartford), and kick myself in the ass 13 times while chanting "I should have never traded that '91 Commander, I should have never traded that '91 Commander, I should have never traded that '91 Commander, I should have never traded that '91 Commander..."

Happy Easter to you all.
 

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I too traded my SA ultra compact off for another gun, ( I refuse to way what kind, because you guys will kick me off the board). I think that the barrel length is a hugh problem with the 1911. The design was for a 5 in, not a 4 or a 3 1/2 or a 3in barrel.

Tom :wink:
 

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invssgt said:
I'm pretty much a Colt man myself, but our local dealers can't seem to get new ones at the moment (I have tried to order TWO in the last 3 months); and some of them, who have a nice used one or two, are just blood-suckers- and are asking $700+ for the damn things, screaming "Colt isn't making anymore!" Bastards.
I see my local shop just went up another $10 on the NRM 1991 Govt's. If you can get one for under $600, I highly recommend it. Years from now, when Colt's is doing stupid things again, these will be the guns everyone will be climbing all over each other to get.

Me, I got two. :twisted:
 

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I'm really satisfied with the performance of both of my XD's. I have the SA MicroCompact and had a lot of problems with it this last week at the range. It repeatedly jammed the same way. There was an empty in the barrel. the slide was open about an inch. I cannot figure out why this is happening. It has a 3 inch barrel, so I make sure to avoid all limp wristing. As Sarge said earlier, could it be that the mag springs are not strong enough to kick the rounds up fast enough to get fed into the gun what with the quicker slide stroke? I know it looks like an ejector problem, but we checked it out and no problem was apparent with the ejector. If I cannot get this worked out I may have to put it up on the block.

I also had my new/used Para P14-45 Limited, manufactured March '98 with me and went through 4 14 round mags. Perfect perfomance, no problems at all. Very accurate, I'll be keeping that one. It's a bad MOFO.
 

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I see my local shop just went up another $10 on the NRM 1991 Govt's.
One local shop has a NRM Commander that I'd love to have, but he has raised the price about $150 in the six months he's had it. It was up over$700 last week. I called him on this, and he said "The price is going up like crazy on these things."

I said "Gee, is Colt sending you a bill every month to stock it? What are you gonna do when the "Colt Gold Mine" dries up, and all your old customers have quit you?"

Dead silence.

Part of me would really like to have a '91 Commander, but I got along without any 1911's for a long time (yes, the weaning process HURTS) and it's a seller's market right now. I can sure wait until the frenzy subsides.
 

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ive owned both 1911 pistols and the xd,,,and im sory to hear you would choose an xd over a 1911,,,there is nothing as reliable,and such a pleasure to shoot then a 1911a1 pistol in my openion,and in hundreds of thousands of pistol shooters like me.
(not knocking the xd,,i own 2 and love them both)
 

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You guys are skirting around the issue. Its not poor quality because even expensive 1911 have feed issues. The truth is that the weapon is (and I know you don’t want to hear this.) Obsolete.

It was designed in the year 1911. It was simply never designed to fire JHP ammo. It was designed to shoot ball ammo. That being said, the 1911 works flawlessly when shooting ball ammo, but modern advances in ammunition make hollow points the tactical choice for modern self defense. People spend enormous amounts of time "Tinkering" with there 1911 pistols, trying to make them reliably feed modern ammo.

Now, don’t get me wrong, I like the 1911. It’s a great design that has withstood the test of time, buy don’t blame the weapon for not being as reliable as modern firearms that are DESIGNED to fire high performance JHP ammo.

This isnt meant to be a troll, or flame. Just some info I gained from the history chanel about an American legend.
 

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Nothing wrong with either one, when properly executed. IMO you are more likely to get an "out-of-the-box 100% reliable" XD, than you are an "out-of-the-box 100% reliable" 1911.

There is nothing wrong with the 1911, other than piss-poor execution by an awful lot of the people making them these days. Decent throating of the barrel, and the improved profile of today's .45 hollow-point ammo, have pretty well laid to rest any concerns about the design's ability handle good ammo.

I own both, and have a hell of a good Springfield MilSpec that has never choked on anything. I still carry the XD though; it's lighter, smaller, carries more ammo and hits about as hard with good ammo.
 

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HVAC-TEK said:
You guys are skirting around the issue. Its not poor quality because even expensive 1911 have feed issues. The truth is that the weapon is (and I know you don’t want to hear this.) Obsolete.

It was designed in the year 1911. It was simply never designed to fire JHP ammo. It was designed to shoot ball ammo. That being said, the 1911 works flawlessly when shooting ball ammo, but modern advances in ammunition make hollow points the tactical choice for modern self defense. People spend enormous amounts of time "Tinkering" with there 1911 pistols, trying to make them reliably feed modern ammo.
Obsolete is probably going a bit far. You're right, it's not poor quality. Most of the problems experienced today are usually with the more compact versions and with alot of manufacturers putting the own "touches" on the guns design. My full size Kimber has always been fantastic right out of the box. I don't think the gun will be obsolete as long as there are people, like me, who still love to shoot it. I very much like my XD, but it hasn't made me want to get rid of my 1911 like I have seen some people say.

As for stopping power, fortunately, .45 ACP in 230 grn hard ball IS a very suitable defensive round. Most rounds can't say that.

No disrespect intended (not a flame), but 1911 is when it was adopted by the military. Browning already had the design for a different caliber when he heard about the government looking for a new auto in .45 cal. He changed his design a little for the .45 ACP and submitted it for testing in 1906. It's old, but it's been the starting blue print for alot of "modern" guns.
 

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What ticks me off?

People will flame KelTec and other manufacturers for making guns that may need servicing out of the box. (1 out of 1000) And declare the entire line to be complete garbage. But these same people will spend $1000 on a 1911 that jams” out of the box" , spend $200-$300 more on smithing, and Declare it the greatest weapon ever made.

You can’t have it both ways.
:twisted:
 
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