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I'm thinking about buying a less expensive entry level AR. Basic plinking gun, maybe some small varmint hunting. I would love some feedback on what others may think of this weapon. Thanks
 

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I think you can do a lot better for just a little more money.
I got to a pistol class early and my instructor was showing his brother how to shoot a new dpms panther that his brother had picked up at a gun show. Charge, click, remove mag, over and over. I think they got it to fire about one out of every three tries.

I've got 2 dpms .308's that work fine but they seem to be built to a higher standard than their .223 or so I've read on the errornets.

You'll probably be into the oracle for $650 or more, you could get into a spikes for around $800. I've got a spikes 5.56 and a spikes 5.45 and I've never had a bit of trouble with either.
Aim Surplus is sold out right now but they list a spikes carbine for $769 and it has a front sight tower and carry handle with sight, the oracle has no sights so you'll have to spend another $100 to put sights on it.
 

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I have what is mostly a dpms panther. It has been very reliable from its stock configuration as well as part of a build. My recommendation is buy a good priced lower and a good priced upper and put them together. If you are more gun proficient or just plain handy with tools and Google, build it from scratch. You'll end up with a much higher quality rifle for the same price you'd pay for an out-of-the-box plinker.
 

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I know this is an old post but don't listen to ryr8828. Buy it! DPMS is one of the first and highest quality AR's you can buy for the money! Different calibers has nothing to do with quality and he says he owns two DPMS .308's. :roll:
 

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I had an oracle for quite some time and used it as a backup to my Savage when going after prairie dogs. I sold it shortly after the trip was over. I was good for the price but like others have said, I would spend a little more coin up front and get something with more quality. In the long run, the initial price of the rifle is the least of your cost, when you throw in ammo and gas to get you out to the hunting grounds.
 

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I bout an oracle upper for my Rra lower. For the most part it's not so bad I want a new upper with a FA and dust cover but otherwise it works great.
The Oracle comes with a dust cover and forward assist. You must have got the Sportical. ???
 

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here is the reasons you are told not to buy the DPMS, "Cheap, crap, buy something better, its junk" now here are some things to ponder about the DPMS Oracle (Which i own and love).

1. how can a manufacturer become one of the top five producers of AR15 if they are putting out crap?
2. you can go and spend K's and K's on an AR and have a very nice gun, but its going to be no better than what you can get out of a DPMS with a few inexpensive upgrades.
3. if they are crap then why do all other manufacturers use there parts when building there rifles like the trigger groups for example.
4. not all weapons are going to be as nice as the XD's in that they will shoot anything you put in it without any issues. some weapons will shoot crap all day, and others will not shoot anything buy decently priced ammo. they are just finicky that way.
5. people will pick a DPMS up and put an old magazine with a lot of rounds through it and say the DPMS wont feed. ITS THE MAGAZINE throw it away!

all in all there is nothing wrong with the DPMS for what your going to use it for. Home security, plinking, varmint hunting, ect. remember you will never have mil spec unless you pulled it out of the military armory no matter how much you spend on it, you just wont.
 

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That's like asking how Lady Gaga can be crap when she sells millions of CDs. Sales says nothing about quality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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My replies in red.

here is the reasons you are told not to buy the DPMS, "Cheap, crap, buy something better, its junk" now here are some things to ponder about the DPMS Oracle (Which i own and love).

1. how can a manufacturer become one of the top five producers of AR15 if they are putting out crap?

Because of the price. People want cheap and the dpms are, well...cheap.

It's not all about quality. If it was, there would be no reason for another manufacturer to be in business because DPMS would be the cat's meow and they're cheaper than everyone else.

I had my own gun shop for nearly a decade and saw a lot of things come through my shop. DPMS had the worst track record of any of them.

Here is the a DPMS 6.8 marked receiver. Straight from their door to mine.

Below is a pocked receiver. It came like that from the forger when the reciever stuck in the mold like cornbread sticking to the pan.

And remained like that throughout the final machining process

And the anodizing process

and the inspection process

and the shipping process

And yet, no one bothered to pick it up and say "you know, maybe we should just scrap this one".



And here is a disconnect that had a crack in it that you couldn't see because of all of the finish on top of it. Had I not been doing a trigger job on it, I never would've known it. If you notice, the crack is filled in with whatever finish is on the rest of the trigger.

I maybe could understand how it was overlooked because honestly, I couldn't tell when I first saw it either, but that doesn't change the fact that it came from the factory like that.





2. you can go and spend K's and K's on an AR and have a very nice gun, but its going to be no better than what you can get out of a DPMS with a few inexpensive upgrades.

You mean like ditching the extruded upper that doesn't have a forward assist and ejection cover instead of a forged upper like most everyone else uses?

Or what parts are you talking about?


3. if they are crap then why do all other manufacturers use there parts when building there rifles like the trigger groups for example.

Believe me, a lot of other manufacturers don't use their stuff. because of their obvious lack of quality control.

Unless you're talking about Bushmaster, and Remington, which all 3 are owned by the same company.

Still, I have never been able to without a doubt, verify that DPMS actually makes the majority of their parts. Especially the internal components.

If you can, I would be very interested in seeing it too.

4. not all weapons are going to be as nice as the XD's in that they will shoot anything you put in it without any issues. some weapons will shoot crap all day, and others will not shoot anything buy decently priced ammo. they are just finicky that way.

I see a lot of problems with this mindset.

Other than making a simple statement that if I had a gun and it wouldn't reliably shoot any bullet I feed it, that would make that gun unreliable.

I'll just leave this point alone.

5. people will pick a DPMS up and put an old magazine with a lot of rounds through it and say the DPMS wont feed. ITS THE MAGAZINE throw it away!

all in all there is nothing wrong with the DPMS for what your going to use it for. Home security, plinking, varmint hunting, ect. remember you will never have mil spec unless you pulled it out of the military armory no matter how much you spend on it, you just wont.

Believe me, I'm not all about mil spec this or that. Just look through some of my posts here and it shouldn't take you long to see that and I'm not directly bashing what you're saying either.

But DPMS doesn't rank very high on my list because of some of the things I've seen from them with my own eyes.

I can't unsee what I've seen no matter how hard I try.
 

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People tend to get caught up in the brand name game. Sure there are AR platforms out there that might be better than DPMS but it is mostly the internal parts that you are paying for; essentially you can spend under 1K for a DPMS and turn around and start replacing the trigger, pistol grip, handguards and barrel...etc... and have the same quality rifle as one that cost over $1,000. When purchasing an AR you need to ask yourself two questions; what you are going to use it for and how much you want to spend.
  1. What am I using it for? Are you going to use it for general plinking, varmint hunting, large game hunting, home defense, competition or any combination of these listed.
  2. How much do I want to spend? After you decide on what you are going to use it for then you need to find that particular AR that meets you budget requirments. (keep in mind that AR's are modular and you can upgrade or modify them easily at a later time).

I would ignore the brand bashers...just because they can afford a $2,000 AR does not mean it is necessarily better than your $800 AR. I have had my $800 Del-Ton 16" carbine for over 2 years and put over 2k rounds through it with absolutely zero hiccups. On the same note, I have seen guys with high dollar, store bought AR's that have run into multiple problems...sure there are some crappy built AR's out there but the main thing to remember is that AR's are mechanical therefore anything can malfunction at any time no matter how much you spend on it. :cool:
 

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That's like asking how Lady Gaga can be crap when she sells millions of CDs. Sales says nothing about quality.


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Lady Gaga is crap and I, for one, will not ever purchase one of her albums... :lol:
 

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My replies in red.
DPMS does not forge their lowers...another company does and that could be a bad run from the forging company. I have seen a LMT rifle dropped on the ground and landed on the magazine were it caused the mag well to split. Of course LMT backs up their product and I believe the issue was corrected at no charge but that just goes to show you that no matter who the AR manufacturer is, whether it is LMT, S&W, CMMG, Del-Ton, Daniel Defense, LCRW, Charles Daly, RRA, Bushmaster or DPMS...these companies, for the most part, do not forge their receivers therefore they are at the mercy of the forging company that makes them... :cool:
 

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DPMS does not forge their lowers...another company does and that could be a bad run from the forging company. I have seen a LMT rifle dropped on the ground and landed on the magazine were it caused the mag well to split. Of course LMT backs up their product and I believe the issue was corrected at no charge but that just goes to show you that no matter who the AR manufacturer is, whether it is LMT, S&W, CMMG, Del-Ton, Daniel Defense, LCRW, Charles Daly, RRA, Bushmaster or DPMS...these companies, for the most part, do not forge their receivers therefore they are at the mercy of the forging company that makes them... :cool:
Yes, every manufacturer that I know of buys from a forging house (and there are many), and ironically, no forge marks are on lowers like they are located on uppers that I know of to ID a specific one. I never understood why, but I've never seen an identifiying forge mark on a lower. Ever.

BUT, I don't exactly agree with being at the mercy of a forger though. There are too many different ones to choose from, and in light of an obvious flaw on their end, I would expect that it wouldn't be a problem for them to say, yeah, we'll give you a replacement for it. Raw forgings can be found all over the place retail for about $35, so it's not like it would've caused a global financial catastrophe especially when they can just melt it down and pour it again.

DPMS had numerous opportunities at various stages to have caught the obvious flaw, yet they shipped it out anyway.:shock:

Since the model and serial number was so close to the defect, there is no way on this earth that would make me believe that someone missed it not just once, but no less than 2 times.

Once when they were logging the serial number in their bound book initially, and again when they looked at the numbers again so they could write the information down upon transferring it to my business.

It was no doubt a problem on the forgers' side as you said, but DPMS had multiple opportunities from not just the final machining and finishing aspect to do something about it (if they do actual machining in-house), but the shipping department, and even business side that handles the paperwork did too and yet, what did they do?

They shipped it to me flawed or not. It's too much to have been just a coincidence that it happened. This was as obvious as the nose on your face.
 

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rickman said:
DO NOT GET THE ORACLE!!!! it has had alot of problems it will only be bad!!!!! get a good rifle like bcm, lmt, windham, colt, armilite, rra, stag, s&w and many more!!!
I know several people whom own the DPMS Oracle and have put more than 2,000 rounds through them with zero issues whatsoever.
Just because one or more people have or had problems with their Oracles or any DPMS rifle does not automatically mean that the rifle or manufacturer is crap. Yes there are better AR's out there than DPMS but these supposedly better AR brands are not immune to the same failures that some seem to claim DPMS is plagued with. I have seen multiple failures in other makes such as Daniel Defense, LMT, Colt and S&W...does that make them junk? I think not as they are mechanical devices that can and will fail.
 

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My dpms is a tack driver. The fit is solid and have had no malfunctions or issues. I've heard they went the most favored brand. I think its a good buy.
 

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well its been a while since i read my post on here, and wow i got some bad respnces. lol. ok comparing lady ga ga to an ar 15??? really....ok if thats the analagy you want to use. Solindra didn't sell crap, and they were super expensive. does that make them good? no they went out of business. i am telling you there is nothing wrong with the rifle. i have put hundreds of rounds down range with mine, and not one hiccup. its as accurate as the operator is. i think a lot of people get mad because they spent way too much for there rifle. as for the pictures of the damaged ar.....any rifle dropped like that could be damaged. as for the cracks, like other people on here have said almost all manufacturers do not forge there own lowers. well with the rifle's there is only one thing to say agree to disagree
 

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as for the pictures of the damaged ar.....any rifle dropped like that could be damaged. as for the cracks, like other people on here have said almost all manufacturers do not forge there own lowers.
Damage wasn't caused by being dropped. It stuck to the mold when it was being made and that is exactly how I received it. If you notice, it wasn't even assembled.

Sure, DPMS didn't forge it, but they had ample opportunities to reject it and chose not to and sold/shipped it to me anyway. Speaks volumes about the quality of the materials they use and their apparent lack of QC.

Glad you're happy with your gun. That's the important part. I'm not bashing you for it.

The op asked for legitimate feedback and I feel that I answered his question.

And even if he buys a DPMS or not, I don't care. It's his choice and his money. At least he went into it with full knowlege.

Have a great day fellas.
 
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