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“Which is why when you see people without masks you know they are self-centered, inconsiderate asshole pieces of crap.”


Sooooo..... you have yours on, right? What are you worried about?
 

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In the store today... they had toilet paper, AND you could be picky about brand. Weird. :)
 

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In the store today... they had toilet paper, AND you could be picky about brand. Weird. :)
^ That's how it seems to be - and has been - in many locales, including my own.

One store will have seen empty shelves of product X, while just down the block at another store, that same item is stocked full on its shelf. This has included even things like toilet paper and cleaning wipes, as well as the weirder items like Oreos or eggs.

Whether this is related to the supply chain for that particular retailer or some kind of weird buying practice caused by the current social tensions (i.e. one lady buys five dozen eggs so that he can do breakfast for his family of six and at the same time another shopper sees that purchase, so decides to grab three instead of two...and so on: this was speculated as having contributed to the ammo shortage back with the last craze, that dual-peak one that occurred between '08 and '13)...or maybe it's a combination of both...who knows......

And speaking of the supply chain....

^ I am not sure if this has already been cited here, but there's some concerns of this stateside, too:

covid 19 shuts down large pork processing plant - Google Search
 

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I looked through all the pictures and there sure are a lot of nice cars and basically zero junkers in all those Hispanic people’s photos. I think we’ve programmed certain demographic groups to expect free stuff. But I could be wrong. Most of those people could be citizens and recently out of work. I try not to judge, but it sure is suspect.
^ I don't disagree, it is hard not to judge, and I'm glad you're honest about it. I try not to as well, but I sometimes have to catch myself, too. :oops:

As my wife likes to remind me when I fume at seemingly able folks park in handicap spaces (I have a chronic right ankle injury that occasionally necessitates non-weight bearing, and even then, I won't take a handicap space unless I really need it), we never really know. :)

Definitely, I think we've raised generations of folks who are used to hand-outs, but at the same time, like you said, it's possible that these nice vehicles may belong to friends or family who have loaned them out (because they are, in-turn, also home-bound and may now only need one vehicle) or may simply be helping with this chore. Similarly, there are many who simply live paycheck-to-paycheck - either on a more permanent basis or perhaps having just been caught-out by the timing of this event.

It's hard to say, indeed. I'd like to think the better of folks, but regardless, it's unfortunate that we've let our country decline to a state where the resiliency of much of its citizens is tenuous at-best.
 

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^ I don't disagree, it is hard not to judge, and I'm glad you're honest about it. I try not to as well, but I sometimes have to catch myself, too. :oops:

As my wife likes to remind me when I fume at seemingly able folks park in handicap spaces (I have a chronic right ankle injury that occasionally necessitates non-weight bearing, and even then, I won't take a handicap space unless I really need it), we never really know. :)

Definitely, I think we've raised generations of folks who are used to hand-outs, but at the same time, like you said, it's possible that these nice vehicles may belong to friends or family who have loaned them out (because they are, in-turn, also home-bound and may now only need one vehicle) or may simply be helping with this chore. Similarly, there are many who simply live paycheck-to-paycheck - either on a more permanent basis or perhaps having just been caught-out by the timing of this event.

It's hard to say, indeed. I'd like to think the better of folks, but regardless, it's unfortunate that we've let our country decline to a state where the resiliency of much of its citizens is tenuous at-best.
We never really know. This disaster should have been planned for. But even in myself I see the doubt. Just 6 months ago I would have seen you as slightly off to be prepared for this. And that makes me feel like a dumbass.

I did buy 2-3 months of food for me and my wife. I’m secure relative to a lot of people even with my wife unemployed and my salary being slashed, 3% 401k loss, etc. Not a good time.

I really believe the pent up energy in people will create a lot of new opportunities; even more than 3-4 months ago. It may just be one of the biggest summer booms ever. I feel it.
 
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I really believe the pent up energy in people will create a lot of new opportunities; even more than 3-4 months ago. It may just be one of the biggest summer booms ever. I feel it.
So we should be in busy season now. But I'm not entirely convinced we will miss it. It think it will just shift a month or two. Hard to say. People could be hurting on discretionary funds, or they could be going out of their mind to spend them. Maybe a little of both... Hard to say.

... But I'm sort of thinking pent up crazy people are ready to spend....
 
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^ Food banks all-over are being severely taxed.....

So may folks have either lost their jobs or otherwise have taken a hit on wages that it's become hard to feed themselves and their families. And again, it isn't just what folks would consider as "poor" that's been affected. Jobs are being affected all across socioeconomic strata.

As long as social services holds out, I think we'll be OK, but I fear that it won't take but a missed meal or two before unrest starts to brew and boil.


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^ I think what Powerman noted above needs to be re-iterated.

Having *everyone* "mask up" with "dust/nuisance/surgical" masks or home/commercially-made facial coverings is *_NOT_* about protecting the masked individual from "catching" SARS-CoV-2 virus. Rather, it is to help curtail the possibility that an infected but yet asymptomatic individual may spread virus unknowingly with droplets from their mouth and nose.

This is an area where I think that our authorities have done a really poor job in explaining the whys/hows to the population at-large, and the proof is right here in our exchanges on this very Forum, in the above exchange between these two members.


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Speaking of false sense of security, I think that this is a good time to go over those caveats that Powerman hinted at in his post (https://www.xdtalk.com/posts/7872401/).

(1) Remember that N95 masks do expire. It is debated just how effective expired N95s are as compared to those that are within-date. As "preppers" many of us have stocked-away N95 masks. As Max Brooks noted in his NPR interview from a couple of weeks ago, this is not necessarily for a pandemic/epidemic scenario, but rather, for simple airborne irritants after natural disasters or structure collapses. While a degradation in filter material is not likely going to be problematic in that context, in terms of viral pathogens, it certainly will. There's unfortunately not much that any of us can do about this (aside from remembering to renew your stock of N95s on a regular basis), but we can give ourselves best-odds even with expired masks by insuring that we get a good fit. Here, it's the headbands and the nose-piece seal (and surrounding area) that are most important, and storage conditions can compromise both of these critical components.

(2) Similarly, note that if you want to re-use an N95 (or even "surgical/dust/nuisance" mask), understand that viral particles can get lodged in the mask material and remain viable there, in some cases, for up to a week. If you plan to re-use, be sure to take the time to allow your used masks to sufficiently decontaminate prior to re-use. Front-line hospital personnel have long instituted such home-made measures by simply leaving their used masks in date-stamped cases or even Zip-Loc baggies and rotating them on a no-more-frequently-than-weekly basis. Here's a good demo of a home-method:


(3) Finally, remember that according to published peer-reviewed studies, it's known that the discomfort from wearing a properly-sealing N95 respirator (this can be seen in pictures of front-line medical personnel coming off shifts, where their faces show skin creases and damage from extended N95 respirator wear) can cause the wearer to self-touch at an increased frequency. The CDC actually cites this "contact transmission" as the single biggest risk to extended N95 respirator use, so if and when you progress to this level of protection, be EXTRA mindful of this - don't touch your face with "unclean" hands.


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Additionally, for those unfamiliar with N95 usage, remember to perform a "user seal check" EACH time you use the mask. I've posted this before, but given the turn of the thread, I think it's worth posting again ---->


Understand that this is not a "fit test" (which can only be done with proper instrumentation) - but rather that this is a field-expedient "check" to at least verify that you have put on the mask reasonably well (think of this as the baseplate "whack test" for your AR15 magazines).
But it wont protect you or others. Cough or sneeze and the micro particles you know the ones we cant see and breathe in will pass right through said mask.
1/10000 of a mm is pretty fine.
Sure you wont spit on um but other than that not much.

But hey you look cool with that old RATT t shirt face covering.




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We never really know. This disaster should have been planned for. But even in myself I see the doubt. Just 6 months ago I would have seen you as slightly off to be prepared for this. And that makes me feel like a dumbass.

I did buy 2-3 months of food for me and my wife.
;) One man's prepared is another's madness.

It's always been this way, and I've always thought that it's most apparent where the issue of firearms for self-defense is debated.

I’m secure relative to a lot of people even with my wife unemployed and my salary being slashed, 3% 401k loss, etc. Not a good time.
Uggh. I am sincerely sorry to hear. :(

There are so many who are hurting now. As things have slowed, I've found many of my "work from home" acquaintances in various sectors have been furloughed - some with the understanding from their employers that those jobs may not come back for a while, even after our Governor lifts the current Stay-at-Home order.

----

I really believe the pent up energy in people will create a lot of new opportunities; even more than 3-4 months ago. It may just be one of the biggest summer booms ever. I feel it.
and

So we should be in busy season now. But I'm not entirely convinced we will miss it. It think it will just shift a month or two. Hard to say. People could be hurting on discretionary funds, or they could be going out of their mind to spend them. Maybe a little of both... Hard to say.

... But I'm sort of thinking pent up crazy people are ready to spend....
Indeed - it's hard to say.

Economists aren't even sure what to make of the current happenings. Even the leading economist at the IMF has outright said that she has no idea whatsoever just how things will look for the next quarter or half. Despite her official prediction that the global economy will contract by 3% (by contrast, the 2008/9 decline saw a 0.1% contraction), she has said that if things didn't turn around, that figure could double 6% - or, on the other hand, we could well bounce-back.

It'll really all be determined by what each of us decide to do once things start to open back up again, and as another economist said, it's fairly impossible to say at this point. Like you guys both said, it's very possible that we'll feel this urge to release all of our pent-up energy as soon as things relax...but at the same time, it's also hard to say just how cautious/conservative any of us will be when we reach that point.

Interesting times.


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RE:
But it wont protect you or others. Cough or sneeze and the micro particles you know the ones we cant see and breathe in will pass right through said mask.
1/10000 of a mm is pretty fine.
Sure you wont spit on um but other than that not much.

But hey you look cool with that old RATT t shirt face covering.
So, that's where it's tricky -

Although you are definitely correct that actual individual virus particles will still pass through, the idea is that there's considerably LESS passing through as the mask catches the larger droplets that's typical of spittle and other discharge.

But how can this be the case, when each individual particle is too small for the mask's filtering material to catch?

What's important to understand is that the virus isn't really existing as a sole particle floating about (and you're right, a tenth of a micron is a small thing: I'm more used to working with bits and pieces in the micron range and above - a confocal microscope is about as much as our lab routinely uses...I haven't done EM in a long, long time). Rather, those viral particle are being transported from the infected on droplets of bodily excretions from sneezing and coughing, which are routinely much, much larger ("Flugge" droplets, which are defined as being between 5 to 10 microns, traveling no more than 1 to 2 meters distance from the expelling individual).

It's not unlike a well person wearing an N95 mask. Remember what that "N95" designation stands for: that these are [N]on-Oil-Resistant masks that removes 95% of all particles that are at least 0.3 microns in diameter. That's a hole that's anywhere from half to five times as large as a single SARS-CoV-2 viral particle. So, then, why does wearing an N95 mask work? It's because, partially, of what's cited above.

And this is why the current recommendation is to limit N95 use (to conserve currently limited supplies) to those who face the most risk (to protect the well from the environment), while encouraging everyone else to use some kind of mask (to protect the environment from the sick), to hopefully quell the damage that asymptomatic infected individuals can incur.

This is why "masking everyone" in some manner or another works, to some degree.

But that's just it, right? "To some degree." There's definitely some false security there as well.

You're absolutely right, that one layer of the old T-shirt (ROFL @ RATT :lol:) isn't going to do much good at all, but a bit more mind paid to the mask's construction and/or materials can make all the difference.

What's nice these days is that there seems to be a lot of focus on the hows and whys of home-made masks.

In any case, towards masks, I read a really nice lay-worded summary by Morgan Atwood, of the late BFE Labs, which he restructured into NoOneComing.com -

Everything You Should Know About Masks, Respirators, and COVID19

For those with the patience, it's an excellent read.
 
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