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As many of us have talked about here or in other COVID threads, some have found it helpful to wear gloves while engaged in higher-risk events (shopping, filling up the vehicle at the pump, etc.) simply so that they are reminded not to touch their face. For those who favor this practice, please remember to de-glove in a safe manner, to prevent cross-contamination of your "clean" hands underneath. :)
Amen to that!
 
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^ I honestly think that if there's anything positive to come out of COVID-19, it's that we have called attention to and really are going back to the basics of hygiene.

That "mindfulness" that everyone loves to talk about? What we in "the gun/self-defense world" has an equivalency as "situational awareness?"

Turn that towards your *_hands_*.

Know that there are "dirty" things (things the public touches) and "clean" things (things that only you have touched) - and that you should have clean hands BEFORE you touch "clean" things (this includes one's own face!).

Remember that all the hygiene tips out there now are NOT solely applicable to SARS-CoV-2.

These same hygiene measures are what will help keep you free of everything from the common cold to seasonal flu (which, as both myself and many others here have pointed out, is nothing to sneer at: look at how many die of complications from influenza per year, versus how many have died so far from COVID-19) to that nasty bug that your kids love to bring home from school/daycare...you know, that one that has you sitting on the toilet with diarrhea while puking into a bucket at the same time (think it's awful that you have to leave your mail and packages out for a day before you touch them, because of teh-COVID? you're really not going to like how long norovirus can live on surfaces). :p:D




^ OK, funnies aside........

Good hygiene is good hygiene.

It's sad that it took something like this novel coronavirus to really kick our collective asses in-gear, but hey, at least we are now all listening! Our kindergarten teachers were right all along - clean those hands!!!!!! ;)
 

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^ I honestly think that if there's anything positive to come out of COVID-19, it's that we have called attention to and really are going back to the basics of hygiene.

That "mindfulness" that everyone loves to talk about? What we in "the gun/self-defense world" has an equivalency as "situational awareness?"

Turn that towards your *_hands_*.

Know that there are "dirty" things (things the public touches) and "clean" things (things that only you have touched) - and that you should have clean hands BEFORE you touch "clean" things (this includes one's own face!).

Remember that all the hygiene tips out there now are NOT solely applicable to SARS-CoV-2.

These same hygiene measures are what will help keep you free of everything from the common cold to seasonal flu (which, as both myself and many others here have pointed out, is nothing to sneer at: look at how many die of complications from influenza per year, versus how many have died so far from COVID-19) to that nasty bug that your kids love to bring home from school/daycare...you know, that one that has you sitting on the toilet with diarrhea while puking into a bucket at the same time (think it's awful that you have to leave your mail and packages out for a day before you touch them, because of teh-COVID? you're really not going to like how long norovirus can live on surfaces). :p:D




^ OK, funnies aside........

Good hygiene is good hygiene.

It's sad that it took something like this novel coronavirus to really kick our collective asses in-gear, but hey, at least we are now all listening! Our kindergarten teachers were right all along - clean those hands!!!!!! ;)
OK... And my anecdotal opinion...

If we took the same level of caution to daily life.... Not lock down, but extreme hygiene... I'm pretty sure we would put a serious debt in seasonal flu outbreaks and deaths.

However... I have always been a firm believer that exposure maintains a healthy immune system. The trend for a good decade is hand sanitizers, and antimicrobial everything... And there is supporting evidence that says people are getting weaker, and when they do get something it's worse. Now that's all very simplistic and anecdotal... All I'm saying is there is a good argument NOT to insulate yourself from everything... But who knows. Catching something that kills you pretty much ends the discussion.
 

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OK... And my anecdotal opinion...

If we took the same level of caution to daily life.... Not lock down, but extreme hygiene... I'm pretty sure we would put a serious debt in seasonal flu outbreaks and deaths.

However... I have always been a firm believer that exposure maintains a healthy immune system. The trend for a good decade is hand sanitizers, and antimicrobial everything... And there is supporting evidence that says people are getting weaker, and when they do get something it's worse. Now that's all very simplistic and anecdotal... All I'm saying is there is a good argument NOT to insulate yourself from everything... But who knows. Catching something that kills you pretty much ends the discussion.
I agree.


I never have been a hand sanitizer user until this crap started.
It still isn’t an all day thing for me, I just keep it in the truck and use it when I get in before I touch everything.

I really am not sure how effective it is.
Wouldn’t it evaporate off before really doing a ton of good?

I’ve heard those Clorox wipes aren’t super effective either and typically just spread whatever virus around rather than kill it.


Maybe it’s all still better than nothing?

Dunno.

Like the mask thing. I can see that being pretty effective. Even if it is just a cloth mask, if it catches 25% of your sneeze or cough that’s better than nothing.
 

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I agree.


I never have been a hand sanitizer user until this crap started.
It still isn’t an all day thing for me, I just keep it in the truck and use it when I get in before I touch everything.

I really am not sure how effective it is.
Wouldn’t it evaporate off before really doing a ton of good?

I’ve heard those Clorox wipes aren’t super effective either and typically just spread whatever virus around rather than kill it.


Maybe it’s all still better than nothing?

Dunno.

Like the mask thing. I can see that being pretty effective. Even if it is just a cloth mask, if it catches 25% of your sneeze or cough that’s better than nothing.
It's all about the dwell time. Hand sanitizer needs to be >60% alcohol for it to be effective before evaporation. Alcohol dissolves the virus's 'shield' which leaves the virus exposed to also dissolve. For chemicals, like the wipes, the dwell time is minutes. So, yeah, if you don't leave it wet enough to stay wet for the dwell time, it isn't doing anything. And it is hard to leave a countertop or sink wet long enough to meet the required dwell time.
 

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I read simple soap destroys the virus.
 

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I read simple soap destroys the virus.
Alton Brown (he's both a gun and - well, he's a chef! - knife guy...he's a cool cat, I met him and his wife for a few minutes at Blade East, 2002) has a great video about this:


^ Whether or not the virus is inactivated (they're never really "alive," per-se, so they never really "die" ;), but that's beside the point) is one thing - the other, perhaps more important thing, is that you've literally gotten rid of it from your hands.

But yes, this is also why the panic-buying of bleach and wipes and all that Jazz really makes little sense, because sticking your clothes into the washer for their usual spin with "The Yardstick of Civilization" helps keep you and those around you safe from SARS-CoV-2.

-----

OK... And my anecdotal opinion...

If we took the same level of caution to daily life.... Not lock down, but extreme hygiene... I'm pretty sure we would put a serious debt in seasonal flu outbreaks and deaths.

However... I have always been a firm believer that exposure maintains a healthy immune system. The trend for a good decade is hand sanitizers, and antimicrobial everything... And there is supporting evidence that says people are getting weaker, and when they do get something it's worse. Now that's all very simplistic and anecdotal... All I'm saying is there is a good argument NOT to insulate yourself from everything... But who knows. Catching something that kills you pretty much ends the discussion.
I absolutely agree as well. There's definitely that level of immunity which is something we've lost as a modern society, where everything "anti-microbial" seems to be better/best.

The truth is that aside from the very few true nasties that we want to kill before they get in our bodies (like SARS-CoV-2, since it is so "new" that it's making us sick....or, for that matter, those awful norovirus strains), the rest of what's out there is stuff that we should literally already have immunity against. All of this "killing" is just helping natural selection to get those most hearty bugs to become even stronger.

New studies showing that children growing up with pets like dogs are often more healthy than ones brought up in more "sterile" home environments....like you said Powerman, having an immune system that has been naturally challenged and "properly trained" is something that the Boomer generation and our generation's hover-parenting seems to have progressively lost.

And this goes further than just our over-cleanliness at a personal/individual level.

This also applies to livestock. There was a reason why my grandmother - at the time when I lived in Taiwan, in the late 70s and early 80s - never got us sick despite never washing her hands or the cutting-board going between chicken and pork and duck and what-not and our veggies (which I used to snack right out of her hand as she was cooking). Modern production-facility chicken, pumped full of antibiotics and what-not, ironically allows them to play host to the stuff that will make us really sick.

We need to balance good, practical hygiene with the need to maintain a healthy immune system. Folks need to realize that absent-mindedly touching their face with dirty hands/fingers during flu season is a danger, while sitting their butts on a public toilet is less so. Similarly, folks need to understand that while washing their hands after they've come out of that same public stall, before they sit down to eat their Chicken McNugget, is definitely a good idea (staff forgot to fill the soap? that's when I break out the hand sanitizer that I "Dad Hard" in my pocket as EDC - I slather it on [because of that "dwell time" that @bachman44 wrote of] and work it under my fingernails, too), they can unclench a bit when their toddler picks that same nugget up off the floor and chomp on it after having fought off the dog for that same piece of table-scrap. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #388
WSJ News Alert


U.S. Expected to Recommend Cloth Face Masks for Americans in Coronavirus Hot Spots


The Trump administration is expected to recommend that Americans in parts of the U.S. where the novel coronavirus is rapidly spreading wear cloth face masks or face coverings when in public to reduce transmission.
 

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^ Whether or not the virus is inactivated (they're never really "alive," per-se, so they never really "die" ;), but that's beside the point) is one thing - the other, perhaps more important thing, is that you've literally gotten rid of it from your hands.
He’s not talking about the unique nature of this particular coronavirus. It’s not widely reported, but surfactants destroy the outside layer of this virus.
 

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He’s not talking about the unique nature of this particular coronavirus. It’s not widely reported, but surfactants destroy the outside layer of this virus.
Yes, that's understood - remember, I'm a biological scientist...while viruses aren't what I work with, I work with surfactants all the time. ;) Our lab goes through a lot of SDS.

But again, it's not that the virus "dies." No virus is really ever "alive" to begin with - they are simply "viable" versus "non-viable." Are Viruses Alive? for a more complete yet still easily readable answer, or Do viruses die? for the TL:DNR version . Just a bit of science fun for those who want to get into the nitty-gritty about the science behind it all, given the current situation.

But that's beside the point, and is just a little nerdy trivia. :D

Those surfactants destroy some - and some just plain up and gets carried away by that soap's emulsifying action, plus the running water (time points 1:16 to 1:25, right before he gets to the part about "mostly dead").

Hand-washing is more than just about the ability of those wonderful bubbles - it's also about the mechanical action your hands make (which, of-course, also provides for that lathering), as well as the benefits of clear running water:
5 Elements of Proper Hand Washing - Advantage Chemical, LLC and Show Me the Science - How to Wash Your Hands | Handwashing | CDC .

The Yardstick of Civilization. 8)
 

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I hard to find good hospitalization data. You find articles for why. CDC has a flu monitoring network but it only covers 10% of population. Point is, hospitalizations are what matters. People getting sick enough to need care tells you rate of increase. The only true rate of increase that matters. We can extrapolate how many more are infected compared to how many confirmed. Number of cases would be significantly more. But hospitalizations gives accurate immediate numbers to better know where the pandemic is going. Those that don't show symptoms, or minor problems that don't require care are not the problem. Unfortunately, I have not found a good source.
 
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I think the face mask thingy is a false sense of security.
Yes it contains your breath etc but the micro filtration is far to large to stop these lil guys.

Still IMO safer to stay away from others by 6 or more ft.

My 02. YMMV.




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Guess I’m using the govt cheese to finally buy a plat carrier. I’ll take my annual bonus and stash cash at the house. I’m still working Tuesday’s and Thursday’s. Managing from home the rest of the week.
 

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And more numbers... All the major European outbreak mortality rates... Italy nearly 13, Spain, France England... All around 10%. Swiss and Germany doing much better arounf 1%. Although, Germany was at 0.5% last week, now its 1.5%. And the US... We were at 1.5%... But now at 2.7%.... Regardless of accuracy to a gnats arse and true cases ... All mortality rates are increasing.
 

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I saw a u-tube video tonight about what the virus is doing to some of the third world countries and people were dying in the streets. Then the wagon with 3 or 4 guys would come and pick them up. One scene showed someone being cremated in the middle of the street by another person pouring gas or diesel fuel on the body.
 
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