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Discussion Starter #1
So, after reading this story I have a question. If you werethe clerk or even if you were walking back to your car at the mall or grocery store and a robber showed a gun in his waistband and made a demand what could you legally do? If he doesn't pull it do you have the right to pull yours and shoot him out of fear for your life? Do you pull yours and keep it pointed at him and call 911 and don't shoot unless he goes for his?


Clerk lucky to be alive after robbery - NBC12 News, Weather Sports, Traffic, and Programming Guide for Richmond, VA |#
 

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I think someone showing a gun is threat enough in context of a robbery or some other crime. if they demand your money or something else and show the gun, that's armed robbery the same as if the put it in your face isn't it?
 

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I think someone showing a gun is threat enough in context of a robbery or some other crime. if they demand your money or something else and show the gun, that's armed robbery the same as if the put it in your face isn't it?
Agreed, id say this is assault with a deadly weapon and think most people would feel like their life is endangered. The clerk even said he was lucky to be alive.
 

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Having someone threaten me by flashing their weapon would likely be enough for me to draw mine; what happens after that would be up to them.
 

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Having someone threaten me by flashing their weapon would likely be enough for me to draw mine; what happens after that would be up to them.
I like that Cuda!

But, does anyone know if you could legally shoot him. I guess it varies by state and is kind of an impossible answer I'm looking for.
 

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So do you blast his ass center mass or not?
No, no...at 3ft. away...Right between his eyes. One shot stop!

But in this scenario, if someone shows me their gun in their pants like that and makes the demand, I think I draw mine, and give them a second chance to live. Then if they make another move towards their gun, it's "lights out...goodnight". First call to 911, 2nd call to 1-800 Steamer, Stanley Steamer.

OH ...Wait, some need to rack their slides first!! LOL!!! :shock:
 

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I like that Cuda!

But, does anyone know if you could legally shoot him. I guess it varies by state and is kind of an impossible answer I'm looking for.
Yeah, every state has their own details as to what justifies a shooting. So the thing is to learn the laws of your state and train yourself to be able to make that snap judgment, and further, to be able to articulate it later when the time comes to explain yourself.
 

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I think if I could draw first... I would disarm them and hold them for cops. if that's something I thought I could do.

I surely wouldnt want to play catch and release with an armed criminal. ya know? just let a fool go with a weapon like that. he could be pissed and learn from his "mistake" and actually use it next time or clear the door pull it and come back in.
 

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I personally think you would have a heck of a time trying to convince a jury in this situation. If he had reached for the gun, then you definitely have a right to shoot him. If he doesn't reach for the gun and the gun is still in the guy's waistband when the police show up is not going to look good in court. I am by no means an expert but I have read some stories where a CCW carrier was more than justified in shooting another person but was put in prison due to their actions. IMO, this is not a situation where I would just automatically fire my gun. I would draw, assess the threat and take action if required.
 

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I think if I could draw first... I would disarm them and hold them for cops. if that's something I thought I could do.

I surely wouldnt want to play catch and release with an armed criminal. ya know? just let a fool go with a weapon like that. he could be pissed and learn from his "mistake" and actually use it next time or clear the door pull it and come back in.
You draw, he turns and runs.

Do you shoot him in the back to prevent him from getting away?
 

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You draw, he turns and runs.

Do you shoot him in the back to prevent him from getting away?
I don't know...I'd say NOT, but maybe the knee cap, to just mark him for later. But then again, ya probably find your self in trouble too. From the law stating that your life was no longer being threaten, or from perps. civil suit.
 

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I don't know...I'd say NOT, but maybe the knee cap, to just mark him for later. But then again, ya probably find your self in trouble too. From the law stating that your life was no longer being threaten, or from perps. civil suit.
And if you're unlucky, you nick a major artery and he bleeds out. Now you've killed someone who was fleeing, and you're going to have a hell of a time.

If he turns and runs, you've successfully eliminated the threat. Stay aware to make sure he's really gone, but then it's Miller time.
 

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I don't know...I'd say NOT, but maybe the knee cap, to just mark him for later. But then again, ya probably find your self in trouble too. From the law stating that your life was no longer being threaten, or from perps. civil suit.
You do realize that that's just as bad as shooting him in the head, legally speaking, right?
 

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You draw, he turns and runs.

Do you shoot him in the back to prevent him from getting away?
As pissed as I would be that he takes off running, there is no way I let loose any rounds, the jury would see that the threat has left, no need to shoot, unless as he is running away, he pulls his weapon and cuts a round off at me, then we have a different story.

And if he is just standing there with the gun in his waistband, how do we disarm him without getting too close so he does not take our gun, and if you have him take out the gun with his "opposite" hand how do we know thathe is not going to try and take a pop shot at us and then take off?
 

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As pissed as I would be that he takes off running, there is no way I let loose any rounds, the jury would see that the threat has left, no need to shoot, unless as he is running away, he pulls his weapon and cuts a round off at me, then we have a different story.

And if he is just standing there with the gun in his waistband, how do we disarm him without getting too close so he does not take our gun, and if you have him take out the gun with his "opposite" hand how do we know thathe is not going to try and take a pop shot at us and then take off?

You do NOT approach. That's just asking for trouble.

As for the rest--I'm not a cop. I'm not trained in this sort of thing. I don't know what one's best course of action would be.

I'd say, though, the odds are he would draw or run...most likely run.
 

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yea if he cuts and runs then you let it be for sure. but i would expect if the bad guy makes the demands without the gun in hand and you pull and kill em, you might have a tougher time stating your case, but then there is only one side to the story. and i guess it depends on where you are in the country but i was told by a judge, the cops really try to side with the law abiding citizen.
 

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You do realize that that's just as bad as shooting him in the head, legally speaking, right?
I think it may even be worse Cuda.

IMHO; If you can take the time to aim for a "wounding", a jury may decide you weren't in enough danger to even pull your firearm in the first place.

Now, back to the OP;
If a BG acts you describe here in SC, I think I would be within my rights to STOP the threat. To me, that means at least "2" rounds CM; (at least in this scenario). After the threat as ceased and the BG is completely incapacitated, then I would disarm him and call 911.
 

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If he shows a gun and demands money, that is armed robbery all day long and you have the right to defend yourself. I remember seeing a video going to find it in a few where a guy tried to rob a store by putting his hand in his jacket pocket and pointing as if he had a gun. Needless to say he didn't have one but it was only after the lady clerk shot him that she knew that.

 

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You draw, he turns and runs.

Do you shoot him in the back to prevent him from getting away?

definitely don't shoot him in the back. You have to be in fear of your life to shoot, and shooting someone that's running away from you is going to land you in jail for a long time.

I think even if you are justified in shooting if he just flashes the gun and makes demands, it's still probably going to cause you a lot of legal hassle and money problems.


I definitely feel like the best course of action here is to draw on him after he flashes and makes demands, and let him decide what happens. If he freezes then call the cops and maybe figure out a way to get his gun from him without putting you in too dangerous of a position.

If he runs, then keep an eye on him and get out of there as quickly as possible.

If he makes a move for the gun, put him down.
 
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