CFE Pistol
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There is some experimentation going on with CFE by the gun gamers, though information at this time is still on the thin side. You might check out the Brian Enos forums/sub forums on reloading and see if you find anything you can use.
Well I think I'm going to get some CFE. It looks good for 90 and 115 grain 9mm bullets. I'll see what it does with my XTPs and push it to the max. It looks faster than my autocomp which I really love with 90gr XTP which are smoken at the high 1300fps range.
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I have not tried the CFE yet but use tight group for my 40 all the time. It's very consistent and clean burning. I have a friend that uses it to load for 9 and loves it as well.
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I bought some CFE Pistol yesterday and they had the hodgdon reloading magazine/ manual and I bought that to.
This weekend I'm gonna light it up. I've mostly heard good things about it but still not a lot of info. I'm really looking forward to how it does compared to autocomp and accurate no7. It'll be interesting anyway. There's good data for the 38 special with 110gr XTP I want to try out as well as the 125gr XTP also with +P 38 special data.
I'm still working on my 357 mag loads but hey let's giv-er a whirl.
That store had a lot of rifle powder. Only a couple pistol powders. They had a lot of 700-X.
The CFE Pistol is made in Florida by St. Marks. The grains vary in size from .0117 to .0469 inch.
The gravimetric density is .850g/cc.
This weekend I'm gonna light it up. I've mostly heard good things about it but still not a lot of info. I'm really looking forward to how it does compared to autocomp and accurate no7. It'll be interesting anyway. There's good data for the 38 special with 110gr XTP I want to try out as well as the 125gr XTP also with +P 38 special data.
I'm still working on my 357 mag loads but hey let's giv-er a whirl.
That store had a lot of rifle powder. Only a couple pistol powders. They had a lot of 700-X.
The CFE Pistol is made in Florida by St. Marks. The grains vary in size from .0117 to .0469 inch.
The gravimetric density is .850g/cc.
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Variation in grain size is one way powder makers control burn rate. The smaller grains help light up the larger ones for an overall burn rate suitable to the application. I am no powder engineer, but that is the gist of what I have heard over the years from people I respect and what I have read. Though SD (Standard Deviation) and ES (Extreme Spread) figures are not always an indicator of absolute accuracy, they do give a hint as to what the powder is doing in your gun. Finding loads that display low SD and ES figures may not insure the best accuracy in your application, but they certainly do indicate consistency which is always a good thing in that it is one less variable to worry about. Chronograph results are therefore essential when working with new powders or indeed any loadings you have not tried before.
So far, everything I have heard about CFE has been positive from those who have started experimenting with it. Data will become more abundant over the months ahead, but Hodgdon seems to "have a clue" and has been pretty good in the past with the data they present.
So far, everything I have heard about CFE has been positive from those who have started experimenting with it. Data will become more abundant over the months ahead, but Hodgdon seems to "have a clue" and has been pretty good in the past with the data they present.
JustSomeGuy
I can tell that extreme spread and standard deviation is important by the way it turns on my buddy 57K. So if its important then I need to use it. He gave me a link for a good calculator I can use. The most interesting aspect of it all is how it relates to practical accuracy.
I can tell that extreme spread and standard deviation is important by the way it turns on my buddy 57K. So if its important then I need to use it. He gave me a link for a good calculator I can use. The most interesting aspect of it all is how it relates to practical accuracy.
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Some say that accuracy isn't always accompanied by low standard deviation and there is some truth to that, but in my better defense loads, I strive for the best possible uniformity with minimal velocity differences between rounds. In that way you can expect performance to be more similar in one round to another.
Another area where it will help is when you're working up loads like you're doing in .357 Magnum. With lower charge-weights that aren't as uniform as you'd like, that will probably be reinforced by fairly broad extreme spreads and unimpressive standard deviations.
I checked BEnos forum before I logged on here because I am interested in CFE Pistol as well since it seems at least some guys are finding it. It's too early to tell for sure but there was a good thread on loading CFE Pistol to 9mm MAJOR. It appears capable but a little faster burning than Silhouette which is what I believe it was intended to compete with. Seems peak pressures arrive a bit quicker and there wasn't enough data to form any type of opinion on uniformity. It's close enough that I'd use it if we find any, but I don't see it replacing Silhouette for me. All of these powders including Silhouette, HS-6, AutoComp and CFE Pistol are in the same burn rate group with CFE meybe being the slightly faster burner. No reason it shouldn't become very popular for 9mm, .40 S&W and other high pressure cartridges with maybe some revolver defense load capability. Probably capable of good velocity with JHPs in .45 ACP as well, but not much word on that as yet.
With 90gr and 115gr bullets the CFE has a little better velocities than AutoComp and Silhouette. Can't wait to see how CFE performs. I think it will get me into the 1400fps range without going to plus P....which eventually I'll take them all to.
I wanted so badly to try out my CFE but I agreed to work all weekend. I gotta work all day tomorrow won't have any oomph or time. Oh well I thank my best friend/Lord I have a good job.
But as soon as possible I'm gonna get after it son.
Here's a snap shot of my last powder haul.
Probably not many care much about my testing of it but at the very least I hope to be entertaining in some way. Lol
But as soon as possible I'm gonna get after it son.
Here's a snap shot of my last powder haul.
Probably not many care much about my testing of it but at the very least I hope to be entertaining in some way. Lol
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Listen... anyone doing reasonable experiments, especially with a newer powder, is greatly appreciated here. We all, I am sure, look forward to seeing the results of your experiments as time goes on.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for sharing!
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2,879 Posts
That, of course, depends on whom is doing the loading. In terms of velocity vs. pressure, none of them do anything that can't be matched or exceeded by HS-6 which is what all of these Winchester and Hodgdon powders are based on including Silhouette which was originally sold as Win. WAP.
For my 9mm defense loads where all would be classified +P, at least in terms of velocity, there's 2 simple tests that the powder must achieve. 1. Proven pressure stability above the +P+ level courtesy of 9mm Major loaders. By NO MEANS should Major loads be approached with stock service pistols. You're already on your own in attempting +P loads and strict guidelines must be observed. Secondly, the powder has to have a low flash signature. That comes from a guy who started out loading with the older 35,700 CUP standard using Blue Dot before moving on to HS-6 and V-V 3N37. I've loaded my share of 9mm and .40 S&W with Power Pistol also, where at least Blue Dot has other applications I used it for including starting out reloading for the .41 Magnum. It's been at least 10 years since the last time I charged any case with a flake powder. Some older reloaders still use and like 'em, but in every case for me, there's a better spherical (ball-type) handgun propellant with the caveat that I think it's fair to say that I'm not much of a TiteGroup fan.
I think you made a very good choice with CFE Pistol that is almost certainly a derivative of HS-6, and like Silhouette, it's treated for low flash. Now will come the test of accuracy and uniformity at high velocity where Silhouette excels and is probably second only to HS-6 in terms of the number of 9mm Major loaders who use it with 3N37 being very close. The consensus at BENOS forum seems to be that CFE Pistol makes the grade in pressure stability. Now lets see what happens with your 90 and 115 gr. experiments. Like I said, if I could find it right now I'd buy & try and I'm still in pretty good shape as far as Silhouette with a little 3N37 to back it up. Don't neglect your AA#7 though! I'd hold in in reserve for when you start using a full-size service pistol and 124 & 147 gr. JHPs.
57K
In the 90gr XTP its a close battle between Power Pistol, HS-6 ,AutoComp,CFE and VV3N37 being possibly the fastest. All these on paper right now. Out of all these which one will come the closest to 1500fps and hold up pressure wise. I looked in the hornady manual and the 90gr does say 1500fps even though I believe it would do more than that as far as the rating. I've checked my velocities a few times and with autocomp I'm close the 1400fps mark, and I've been loading a little long, at less than +P charges I believe. VV is getting 1512 with a 90gr XTP and 3N37 with a 4 inch barrel. My goal is 1500fps I believe it can be possibly done without using +p+ charges. Its my belief at that velocity at normal defense distances, it will have incompacitating effects with less than desirable shot placement commonly encountered in real life situations and with the LEAST amount of danger of overpentrating especially in instances where the risk of over penetration could be at its highest. Example: An extremely under dressed, very thin bad guy in crowded public areas. Funny I always hear examples about the biggest, most over dressed bad guy and the need to penetrate but never the other
extreme where 14-16 inches in a gel block equals one or two innocent people when the exact opposite example is present. I believe the majority need to run the light side especially not being proficient.
I'll never get my 115gr load where I want it because my sweet little XDs just doesn't have the throat for it.
Can I get a different barrel for it?
What other 9mm pistols are good concealed carry with deeper throats with longer barrels and short height?
In the 90gr XTP its a close battle between Power Pistol, HS-6 ,AutoComp,CFE and VV3N37 being possibly the fastest. All these on paper right now. Out of all these which one will come the closest to 1500fps and hold up pressure wise. I looked in the hornady manual and the 90gr does say 1500fps even though I believe it would do more than that as far as the rating. I've checked my velocities a few times and with autocomp I'm close the 1400fps mark, and I've been loading a little long, at less than +P charges I believe. VV is getting 1512 with a 90gr XTP and 3N37 with a 4 inch barrel. My goal is 1500fps I believe it can be possibly done without using +p+ charges. Its my belief at that velocity at normal defense distances, it will have incompacitating effects with less than desirable shot placement commonly encountered in real life situations and with the LEAST amount of danger of overpentrating especially in instances where the risk of over penetration could be at its highest. Example: An extremely under dressed, very thin bad guy in crowded public areas. Funny I always hear examples about the biggest, most over dressed bad guy and the need to penetrate but never the other
extreme where 14-16 inches in a gel block equals one or two innocent people when the exact opposite example is present. I believe the majority need to run the light side especially not being proficient.
I'll never get my 115gr load where I want it because my sweet little XDs just doesn't have the throat for it.
Can I get a different barrel for it?
What other 9mm pistols are good concealed carry with deeper throats with longer barrels and short height?
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