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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just curious if the gun you carry tends to be stock or do you have mods done? If you do what kinds? When does it cross the line and become a liability if you do have to defend yourself for the anti-gunners and lawyers to pick apart your defense based on the mods you've done to you gun? Are things that are purely cosmetic ok and ones that effect function not what do you think?


Reason I ask is I want to get stainless controls and pins and the like for my XD because I think it looks sexy but want advice first on the carry aspect.
 

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the only thing i've done to mine is fill in the lettering on the barrel with some lime green crayon. i would think though that anything that is purely cosmetic wouldn't be an issue as it's just cosmetic. i don't think the anti gunners could say 'the criminal didn't have a chance because he was blinded by the pretty/flashy/sexy gun!' and get very far...

now if you carry it with a 30 round mag and a full auto kit you might have problems...
 

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I've had controls refinished and mods done to many a carry gun.
I won't worry about it.
But I'm sure you find some to chime in against it.:shock:



 

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Turn the question upside-down: why should you not have the best tool for the job? Do you go to the hardware store for a hammer and select an item of the lowest quality? How about when you go out to eat; do you find the greasy spoon serving yesterdays left-overs, cold?

The typical working, productive person selects items near the top of what they can reasonably afford.

I carry a gun with a competition barrel, an excellent trigger and certain other reliability and function enhancements. I added grip panels that make it fit my hand. I just recently built-up another gun for concealed carry. Again, work and parts that make it a better functioning, more accurate firearm.

I'm depending on my common sense, knowledge of the law and training to set the terms of the encounter in my favor. If and when a handgun is deployed, shouldn't it match the knowledge and abilities of its user?

If one follows the logic of the OP then I should bid on and buy a used surplus shot to death, for parts only 1911 from government stockpiles and strap it on as a self defense firearm. That's not logical or sensible.

Likewise, my carry gun isn't a competition gun (at least not for the highest levels of competition). A carry gun doesn't need ports or compensator; it doesn't need a red-dot sight; it doesn't need a 1# trigger pull or extensive modifications to make it faster, lighter or pin-point accurate.

Perhaps you should just employ some common sense. Your life may hang in the balance; I would suggest you get/build something that makes it possible to preserve that life.
 

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I agree with JFDavis. If a mod will give you enough advantage keep you alive long enough to be put on trial for defending yourself against a mortal threat, then do it.


I would not recommend engraving "BORN TO KILL" or "LOOKING FOR TROUBLE" on the slide.
 

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I have a couple of local public defense attorneys and a retired judge in my local shooting club and I have asked them about it. I asked them and there are no laws here in Florida preventing you from modifying your firearms and using it for self defense.

Being shooter and CCW individuals themselves, they did recommend not to modify your trigger to a light pull because their stated thatthe adrenaline rush through your body at the time may cause an accidental discharge. Again, that was just their recommendation to me at the time...

I had also asked them about Class3 firearms. They stated you are not allowed to CCW these types of firearms in Florida, but if at home and the need arises, there is no reason you could not use it in a situation that calls for self defense.

Now, they also stated that if you are identified to be accused of something and have to go to court, the prosecution would probably try and use any and/or all the modifications against you because the jury members are not gunsmiths and probably not many or any of them are licensed CCW individuals. Some may even be totally against firearms. Basically they will try to make you look "bad" in their eyes.

Next time I see them I am going to ask them about cosmetic changes where it might be used to try to make the self defense individual look bad to a jury. An example of this would be a Spikes Spyder AR with the Zombie logo and live/dead safety markings on the side. I'm curious as to what they would state if a prosecution would try to use something like this against a self defense case.

They also went on to state even if you are found not guilty in such a case, that this could still be used against you in a separate civil case against you.The example they gave me was when OJ Simpson was found not guilty in his murder trial, but then the victim's family brought a civil case against him that he did lose in and had to pay the victim's family.

Don't get me wrong here, I am not saying you should or should not do any type of mods to your CCW selections. I would recommend that you try to educate yourself as much as possible to see if any such cases have been brought to trial in your areas and what the outcome was.

One of the TV shows, I think it was Gun Talk or maybe another one, use to have a portion of the show dedicated to where a well known private self defense attorney would talk about case, law, and court related items. In a couple of the shows he would end by suggesting that people like us should engage a local attorney and ask questions like this and request case studies from the attorney. If I remember right, I think he mentioned that it could probably cost you a couple hours of the attorney's time, but that it would worth the expense.



Good Luck And Be Safe!!!
:cool:
 

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If my gun comes out of the holster it's because it needs to be fired. Your finger shouldn't be on the trigger unless you're ready to fire anyway. It doesn't matter if it's a glock with a stock trigger, a glock with a modified 5 lb trigger, an XDm with a 4 lb springer trigger, or a stock 1911 with a 4 lb trigger.

Thankfully I live in a state that has laws to protect me from frivolous civil cases if the investigation or trial proves the actions justified.
 

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The two XD's that I carry both have Powder River Precision triggers. One has Truglo TFO's, the other Trijicons. A 'good shoot' is a good shoot, with or without trigger jobs and night sights. I'll take my chances against a jury, if the day ever comes.
 

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Only mods are grip stippling and Trij sights. Do wanna advance into a PRP trigger, though, and I agree with the judged by/carried by argument. After that, if it comes down to it, just comes down to luck of the draw on judge and jury. Look around for that gun friendly attorney, though.
 

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Perhaps you should just employ some common sense. Your life may hang in the balance; I would suggest you get/build something that makes it possible to preserve that life.
While yes you are right you should always use common sense when doing anything in life there is a problem with this logic in this situation. You are assuming that a jury of your peers has common sense. I see two issues with this.

1) What happens when you assume?

2) Do you want to trust in the general populations having common sense when your future is on the line?

Not saying its a bad idea. I want to do the same thing to mine and it is a carry weapon. Just think carefully and be able to justify your reasoning not count on the "Common sense" of the public. Remember those same people voted in our current president and might do so again...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for the advice. I saw a part on pistolgear.com and thought about getting it. It is a plastic insert that reduces the trigger over travel is this a trigger mod thats ok or to be avoided? It doesn't effect the actual trigger pull.
 

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A mod is only going to be an issue in a negligent discharge or accidental shooting case. If I intend to shoot someone, it makes no difference if I have a modified trigger or better sights. I have modified all my carry guns to some degree. I will do what I need to do to have the best weapon I can have that will get the job done!
 

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Thanks for the advice. I saw a part on pistolgear.com and thought about getting it. It is a plastic insert that reduces the trigger over travel is this a trigger mod thats ok or to be avoided? It doesn't effect the actual trigger pull.

Actually, if installed incorrectly it can keep the gun from firing or from resetting.

Are you willing to bet your life or your family's lives on your ability as a gunsmith? For a carry gun the top 3 things you should worry about are reliability, reliability and reliability. If you are certain that it's reliable after the mod, then it should be good to go. It is probably smartest to have a quality smith like the guys at Springer, PRP or SA custom do any mod on a carry gun.
 

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According to Mas. Ayoob, "more lethal" modifications have been brought into court by a lot of prosecutors. It never works. Your good defense lawyer can turn it around to make the modified gun safer for innocent bystanders. If it's a righteous shoot, it won't matter if you used a bazooka. "I shot because I was in fear of my life."

FWIW: My EDC XD9SC has TruGlo TFO sights, a Pearce mag extension, a Paccy rubber grip, a modified frame to fit my hand better, and a PRP Ultimate trigger kit.
 

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According to Mas. Ayoob, "more lethal" modifications have been brought into court by a lot of prosecutors. It never works. Your good defense lawyer can turn it around to make the modified gun safer for innocent bystanders. If it's a righteous shoot, it won't matter if you used a bazooka. "I shot because I was in fear of my life"
^ Like this. Always wise to pay head to Massad's knowledge and experience. Along with your firearm you should always have a good lawyer!
 

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Your good defense lawyer can turn it around to make the modified gun safer for innocent bystanders. If it's a righteous shoot, it won't matter if you used a bazooka. "I shot because I was in fear of my life."
Actually the statistics show that to be correct. Police hit innocent bystanders at a rate approximately 10x that of CC involved shootings. Sorry, don't have that stat bookmarked so it's coming from the brain vault.

Not a slam on police, they typically engage at a greater distance.
 

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According to Mas. Ayoob, "more lethal" modifications have been brought into court by a lot of prosecutors. It never works. Your good defense lawyer can turn it around to make the modified gun safer for innocent bystanders. If it's a righteous shoot, it won't matter if you used a bazooka. "I shot because I was in fear of my life."
I am not a glock guy, but do a little reading over at GT.
Mas gives a lot different take in a thread about lightened triggers.
He cites court cases and prosecutor's tactics as to why they 'push' the accidental discharge.

Anyway, there's a lot in the thread from both sides. Ranging from "I want the best weapon possible" to "If you need a lightened trigger, you have other problems."

Personally, I cannot...that is can-not guarantee a perfect clean justfied shoot. Things happen. I do not get to dictate the circumstances of a situation. I trust my decision making, but the instant that a bystander gets hurt, all bets are off.

I will not be modifying my carry gun.

Mas contributed a lot to this thread. Good read.
CCW with a 3.5lbs connector a legal liability? - Glock Talk
 
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