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I am hunting down a box of these and cannot seem to find them in a .40cal. I want to do a side by side comparison between the SXT(which I have, the SXT 6 pedal, and the original Black Talon. Any of ya'll think you can help??


 

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This info was found from a search on the net. I
seriouly doubt that you will find the .40S&W Black
Talon today as they were scarce way back when.

Winchester Black Talon Revisited
There appears to be continuing confusion surrounding the different versions of the Black Talon bullet, its legality for possession by private citizens, as well as its alleged "cop-killer bullet" armor-piercing capability. Here's the lowdown:

Black Talon SXT: The original Black Talon handgun bullet. It was introduced in 1991. The cartridge consists of a black colored bullet seated in a nickel-plated case. The black paint-like coating on the bullet is a Winchester proprietary lubricant called Lubalox. The bullet has six serrations on the rim of the hollowpoint cavity (meplat), and six talons. The talons deploy when the bullet expands. They are described by Winchester as: "six uniform, radial jacket petals with perpendicular tips." Winchester voluntarily discontinued sales of Black Talon SXT to the general public in late 1993/early 1994 due to intense negative media and political pressure. Some political activists derisively referred to it as "Black Felon" ammo. Black Talon is packaged in boxes of 20 cartridges.

Ranger SXT: Ranger SXT is a less expensive version of the original Black Talon cartridge intended for the law enforcement market. It consists of a black Lubalox coated bullet seated in a brass case. The bullet has six serrations on its meplat, and six talons. Ranger SXT is packaged in boxes of 50 cartridges marked "Law Enforcement Ammunition."

Supreme SXT: Redesigned "civilian" version of the original Black Talon bullet. The cartridge consists of a copper-jacketed bullet seated in a nickel-plated case. The bullet has eight serrations on its meplat, and no talons. Supreme SXT is packaged in boxes of 20 cartridges.
According to Olin-Winchester public relations, the Supreme SXT bullet design has not been factory tested in standard ordnance gelatin because it was not designed to meet police ammunition performance specifications. As a result, there's no valid and verifiable performance data available from Winchester or the FBI.

We find Winchester's attitude troubling because they're marketing a personal defense bullet (a life safety device) in which they confessed to us that they've no idea how well (or poorly) it performs. Therefore, we advise you not to buy and use Supreme SXT until Winchester gets its act together and coughs up performance data for this cartridge.

Ranger Talon: The second generation version of the original Black Talon SXT bullet. The cartridge consists of a copper-jacketed bullet seated in a nickel-plated case. The bullet has six serrations on its meplat, and six talons. Ranger Talon is packaged in boxes of 50 cartridges marked "Law Enforcement Ammunition."

There is no Federal law that prohibits a private citizen from purchasing or possessing any of the Black Talon bullet variants. Additionally, there is no Federal law, which forbids private possession and use of "law enforcement" handgun ammunition, except specifically defined armor-piercing handgun ammunition. Black Talon, Ranger SXT and Ranger Talon do not meet the criteria for armor-piercing handgun ammunition as defined by Federal law. However, there may be State or local laws that ban private possession of Black Talon and its variants.

The negative media frenzy of late 1993 produced untrue assertions that Black Talon was an armor-piercing "cop-killer" bullet. We've fired both 9mm and .40 S&W Black Talon bullets into threat level IIA soft body armor and the armor easily stopped the bullets. The "armor-piercing" myth may have originated from the markings used on certain military small-arms ammunition. U.S. military cartridges with a black painted tip indicates the bullet is armor-piercing.

(Federal Nyclad ammunition is often mistaken as armor-piercing ammunition too, due to the blue-black nylon coating on the lead bullet.)
The black Lubalox coating on the Black Talon bullet is meant to reduce in-bore friction and chamber pressure. Once the bullet leaves the muzzle, the mission of the coating is completed. Lubalox does not give the bullet any special property that allows it to blast through police soft body armor.
Recently, the newer Winchester 9mm 127 grain +P+ Ranger SXT bullet (product number RA9SXTP) has been found to penetrate some lower threat level soft body armor. Second Chance Body Armor Company recalled one of its vests in response to officer safety concerns posed by this particular bullet.

It looks like you have the second generation 'civilian version'.

All of my Black Ts are six pointed talons and so is the Ranger
'Law Enforcement Ammunition' ammo produced today.

Look down just a few posts and you will see where one of
our forum members will hook you up with the 50 round box
of the Ranger ammo.

Ed
 

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62.01 for sixty rounds of ten year old ammo... black tallon or not... I would not pay a buck a round for ten year old handgun ammo stored in who knows what enviroment...
 

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I USED NOTHING BUT BLACK TALONS IN MY XD-40 BOUGHT 2000 ROUNDS WEEKEND BEFORE BRADY BILL WENT INTO EFFECT XD EATS THEM LIKE NOW&LATERS EXCELLENT GROUPS DIDIN'T KNOW THEY RE-ENGINEERED THEM THOUGH WILL HAVE TO GO OUT AND GET THE NEW STUFF
 

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David_4 said:
The SXT is a redesigned Black Talon. The SXT performs better than the Black Talon.
That depends upon which SXT version you have, the Supreme or the Ranger. The Ranger is the newer better stuff while the Supreme is the civillian stuff. Personally Id never use any of the SXT versions as there are newer versions out there such as the Ranger T series.


BKVic
 

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For what is is worth, there is another upgraded
Ranger series which has changed the bullet
housing, not the casing shell, just the round.
It supposedly has a different shroud encasing
it.

Me believes that is why the Ranger LEO ammo
is now available so readily to the civilian market
in the 50 round boxes. Trying to unload the old
stuff, making room for the new.

Ed
 

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Ed Ely said:
This info was found from a search on the net. I
seriouly doubt that you will find the .40S&W Black
Talon today as they were scarce way back when.
I have some but ya ain't gonna get them! :wink:

Also have some .45 ACP's and 9mm....
 

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RatMan said:
Ed Ely said:
This info was found from a search on the net. I
seriouly doubt that you will find the .40S&W Black
Talon today as they were scarce way back when.
I have some but ya ain't gonna get them! :wink:

Also have some .45 ACP's and 9mm....
Stingy!!!! :lol:

Here we are talking about all this high powered Talon,
Black T, Win T, Ranger T and the good stuff. All with
excellent killer and knock down, one shot stopper stuff.

Just this Wednesday past, here in my little burg, a 64
year old wife shot her 72 year old hubbie with a .22LR
rifle, one shot and he was DAS (dead at scence) and then
she went to her bedroom, sat down on her bed, placed the
same rifle with the butt on the floor, mouthed the barrel and
somehow pulled the trigger to end her misery. The neighbors
found them about 24 hours after the murder/suicide happended.

I am only sharing this as the mighty little, tiny, weinnie, belittled
.22calLR still performs many a one shot kill ratio compared to
other ammo. It amazes me.

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I was able to locate some original but unwilling to pay 35.00 a box. I ended up getting the redesigned Ranger Talon's from here for cheap!!!

MMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMM




Lower Left ;)
 

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Ed Ely said:
I am only sharing this as the mighty little, tiny, weinnie, belittled
.22calLR still performs many a one shot kill ratio compared to
other ammo. It amazes me.
You're absolutely right, Ed. Many people don't realize just how many deaths are attributed to the lowly .22LR. Robert Kennedy was killed with a .22LR fired from a short-barreled revolver. America's most prolific female serial killer, Aileen Wuornos, also used a .22 in her killing spree.

-James
 

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It gets confusing...

Winchester now use SXT as a general term to mean "Supreme eXpansion Technology" and not just to refer to a specific bullet. You will see "SXT" on boxes of Supreme and Ranger ammo.

Both Supreme and Ranger T bullets use a similar reverse taper SXT jacket design. The USA 180 JHP does not (it is the same bullet they used to call the Subsonic DP and was used in the Ranger line as well BTW).

180 Black Talon
13.5/.68 bare
14.4/.70 cloth

180 Ranger Talon
13.7/.69 bare
13.6/.70 cloth

180 Ranger T
13.5/.68 bare
13.5/.68 cloth

180 Supreme SXT
12/.68 bare

180 USA JHP
14.6/.64 bare

As usual, different guns, different testers, different lots of ammo will vary.
 
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