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Springfield Armory offers Black-T for XD refinishing. Apparently this was designed for use on external surfaces of nuc subs. Supposed to be very tough and self lubricating.
Anyone tried it?
Paul
Anyone tried it?
Paul
Black-T submarine finish for pistols
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Does it glow in the dark or run into undersea mountains?
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both.manygunner said:
on the positive side, all the seaman where tennishoes.
Raymond
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Not that it matters, but the fact is we are exposed to more radiation every day as civilians walking around on dry land than the Nukes are when on board a nuclear propelled sub or carrier. Even in the reactor room.manygunner said:
Radon is our biggest source of radiation. It's in the ground.
There is no radon in the ocean.
The reactors on subs and carriers emit zero radiation.
How do I know? I worried about it plenty when my son entered the Nuke program. I worried he'd "glow in the dark". He's an ELT(Engineering Laboratory Technician). He told me, and no one one would know better. It is an ELT's job to know. (Any Navy guys here will verify).
I expect to hear from him today. I'll ask him if he knows anything about the finish on a sub (sort of doubt it, but you never know).
Peace,
D.
I've only been on one nuke sub before--it was docked at St. Croix while we were there and they let us come on board; seemed to me the exterior coating was a black, rubberized substance that gave great traction; seems it would be a good coating for a gun!
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It was joke. I probably know more about nuclear engineering and safety then most people here (majored in physics until junior year and took courses in radiation safety engineering in college). BTW, there is Radon in water, just very diffuse due to the great volume of water. Generally we are all exposed in some amoutn every day, depending on what we do and where we live. I also know that the US Navy radiation safety is not the greatest, but within tolerable ranges. Remember they only have to protect you to a certain level or else it would be cost prohibitive. Nukes are pretty safe and I wish we had more nuke plants so we could save on oil imports. You get more exposure taking a transcontinental flight and peanut butter is more likely to cause cancer due to Aflatoxin from Aspergillus niger growth on peanuts. BTW, I was almost in the navy as a nuke myself, passed the NFQT with flying colors, decided against it when they "accidentaly" sank that Japanesse freighter in '81 by ramming it.Delija said:
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Talk to Walter Birdsong. He's the fellow that designed the Black-T Finish. I had a photo of a 1911 in Black-T around here somewhere. I'll try to dig it up tonight. Here's Walter's Contact info:
WE Birdsong & Associates
1435 Monterey Road
Florence, MS 39073
(601) 939-7448
I know that last time I checked SA charged $145.00 to apply Black-T to all metal surfaces of an XD, and it was available in black or OD. As soon as I get a second pistol for daily carry my XD40 is going in for a bath of Black-T. I hope some of this helps!
WE Birdsong & Associates
1435 Monterey Road
Florence, MS 39073
(601) 939-7448
I know that last time I checked SA charged $145.00 to apply Black-T to all metal surfaces of an XD, and it was available in black or OD. As soon as I get a second pistol for daily carry my XD40 is going in for a bath of Black-T. I hope some of this helps!
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32 Posts
Thanks for the info!
Here is the only additional information I have:
------------------
Question
What type of finish do you think would be prudent for an individual desiring low maintenance, great reliability and aesthetically pleasing in a defensive pistol? Blueing, satin finish, stainless steel or an aftermarket product such as provided by places like Gunsite and Thunder Ranch?
Answer
Mr. Nichols:
Bluing is not particularly rust-resistant or maintenance-free. "Satin" finishes such as a bead-blasted blue or some form of Parkarizing may work better simply because the lattice structure holds oil and thus keeps moisture off. Stainless is just that - it "stains less," but it is hardly maintenance free. Hard chrome is better if you like the look of that sort of thing.
The finishes by Wilson, Baer, Gunsite, Thunder Ranch etc. are all the same they are all basically KG Guncote, which is a DuPont spray-on, bake-on telflon product. Although it is very rust resistant, it is not particularly durable (despite what they say).
I'll cut to the chase and tell you that the best finish to fit your bill is a proprietary finish called Black-T developed and done exclusively by W.E. Birdsong and Associates.
Black-T was developed as a finish for the external mechanical parts of Navy submarines. They needed a finish that would keep rust and corrosion from salt at bay, and did not need lubrication. Soon after they won contracts for submarine parts, it was discovered that it worked extremely well for small arms.
Unlike the DuPont products, it is not merely sprayed on, but actually penetrates the metal. It is therefore slightly more durable than a good bluing job, and much more durable than any of the spray-on bake-on finishes. Once applied, it needs nothing no lubrication, and no special care. As the metal is completely bonded, it simply cannot rust.
A few things to be aware of with Birdsong: 1) Since he deals almost exclusively with government contracts, it may be a while before you get your gun back. 2) Prices are very reasonable. For as long as I've dealt with the company, the price has been the same - $50 for a handgun, $100 for a long gun. 3) Walter Birdsong is the nicest southern gentleman you'll ever meet. He still answers his own phone. 4) Since he has so much work with government contracts, he doesn't advertise and isn't particularly looking for end-user work, so he's hard to locate. But he is very personable and helpful if you do catch up with him, and I can help you with that: W.E Birdsong & Assoc.,Inc. 1435 Monterey Rd. Florence, MS 39073 601-939-7448.
I hope this helps.
-------------------------------
Paul
Here is the only additional information I have:
------------------
Question
What type of finish do you think would be prudent for an individual desiring low maintenance, great reliability and aesthetically pleasing in a defensive pistol? Blueing, satin finish, stainless steel or an aftermarket product such as provided by places like Gunsite and Thunder Ranch?
Answer
Mr. Nichols:
Bluing is not particularly rust-resistant or maintenance-free. "Satin" finishes such as a bead-blasted blue or some form of Parkarizing may work better simply because the lattice structure holds oil and thus keeps moisture off. Stainless is just that - it "stains less," but it is hardly maintenance free. Hard chrome is better if you like the look of that sort of thing.
The finishes by Wilson, Baer, Gunsite, Thunder Ranch etc. are all the same they are all basically KG Guncote, which is a DuPont spray-on, bake-on telflon product. Although it is very rust resistant, it is not particularly durable (despite what they say).
I'll cut to the chase and tell you that the best finish to fit your bill is a proprietary finish called Black-T developed and done exclusively by W.E. Birdsong and Associates.
Black-T was developed as a finish for the external mechanical parts of Navy submarines. They needed a finish that would keep rust and corrosion from salt at bay, and did not need lubrication. Soon after they won contracts for submarine parts, it was discovered that it worked extremely well for small arms.
Unlike the DuPont products, it is not merely sprayed on, but actually penetrates the metal. It is therefore slightly more durable than a good bluing job, and much more durable than any of the spray-on bake-on finishes. Once applied, it needs nothing no lubrication, and no special care. As the metal is completely bonded, it simply cannot rust.
A few things to be aware of with Birdsong: 1) Since he deals almost exclusively with government contracts, it may be a while before you get your gun back. 2) Prices are very reasonable. For as long as I've dealt with the company, the price has been the same - $50 for a handgun, $100 for a long gun. 3) Walter Birdsong is the nicest southern gentleman you'll ever meet. He still answers his own phone. 4) Since he has so much work with government contracts, he doesn't advertise and isn't particularly looking for end-user work, so he's hard to locate. But he is very personable and helpful if you do catch up with him, and I can help you with that: W.E Birdsong & Assoc.,Inc. 1435 Monterey Rd. Florence, MS 39073 601-939-7448.
I hope this helps.
-------------------------------
Paul
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176 Posts
Sorry to get off topic again. Unless the laws of physics have changed, there is radiation exposure aboard our subs. I know it been a few years back that I punched holes in the ocean aboard a fast attack, back then we carried devices to measure our radiation dose. If an ELT told you there was no exposure on board he is not telling you the whole truth.
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28 Posts
So Springfield is offering this as an in house service?
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Yes SA will apply Black-T under the umbrella of their Springfield Customs Shop. Whether or not SA actually does the work themselves, I don't know, but it comes back to you with their warranty, which is good enough for me. You can download the current price list for their custom work on the SA webpage.
got this from Springfields "custom" shop pdf:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/CS.pdf
Finishes:
Armory Kote, all metal parts of pistol (Matte black or OD green).......$ 90.00
Blast blue, all metal parts of pistol....................................................$ 70.00
Black T, all metal parts of pistol (Matte black or OD green)...............$145.00
Hard chrome, all metal parts of pistol (Matte finish)..........................$145.00
Nickel Teflon finish, all metal parts of pistol.......................................$175.00
http://www.springfield-armory.com/CS.pdf
Finishes:
Armory Kote, all metal parts of pistol (Matte black or OD green).......$ 90.00
Blast blue, all metal parts of pistol....................................................$ 70.00
Black T, all metal parts of pistol (Matte black or OD green)...............$145.00
Hard chrome, all metal parts of pistol (Matte finish)..........................$145.00
Nickel Teflon finish, all metal parts of pistol.......................................$175.00
First of all let me say that this is my first post. I have been trolling for a while. I am also the proud owner of two xd's - a SC and a Service. Neither have rust or have had any malfunctions.
With regards to Birdsong:
First of all let me say that Walter Birdsong is a Southern Gentlemen. He does answer the phone and talks to everyone who comes into the shop - and he is a talker. I know about Birdsong because I live in central MS where he is located. I took a T series Hi Power to be refinished and have an FN HiPower that he has done. His work is excellent. To prove the durability of his finish he took a slide (that had the Black T Finish on it) and proceeded to beat the **** out of it with a steel rod. The slide suffered some dents, but the finish did not come off. It should be noted that his finish is meant to be run DRY - as in no oil or lubricant.
Yes, Birdson does Springfields 1911's - mostly the FBIs 1911s. Springfield ships all of their FBI guns to him in the "white" so he can put his finish on them. While I was there he had about 50 of these white 1911's.
He also does a ton of DoD stuff. From the DEA to the Seals to LA Sheriffs depart - he does alot of it (MP5's, AR's, Grenade Launchers, Barett 50, etc...). When I was at the shop to drop off my Hi Power, he had a Barrett 50 caliber sitting in his office corner and had the usual variety of 870's, AR's, Remington PSS's and MP5s that were waiting to be done.
With regards to the submarines, Birdsong puts his Black T finish on the propellers/jets of "robots" that these submarines use to look around. He told me that his finish had lasted several thousand (I forget how many) hours in saltwater.
Yes, he does not advertise because he already has so many contracts. He was happy to take my guns though. It took about 3 mos. to get my guns back, but it was worth it.
I have a 1911 that he needs refinishing - its going to Walter to get the Black T. If one of my XD's ever has a finish problem, I'm not sending it back to Springfield, but taking it to Walter.
With regards to Birdsong:
First of all let me say that Walter Birdsong is a Southern Gentlemen. He does answer the phone and talks to everyone who comes into the shop - and he is a talker. I know about Birdsong because I live in central MS where he is located. I took a T series Hi Power to be refinished and have an FN HiPower that he has done. His work is excellent. To prove the durability of his finish he took a slide (that had the Black T Finish on it) and proceeded to beat the **** out of it with a steel rod. The slide suffered some dents, but the finish did not come off. It should be noted that his finish is meant to be run DRY - as in no oil or lubricant.
Yes, Birdson does Springfields 1911's - mostly the FBIs 1911s. Springfield ships all of their FBI guns to him in the "white" so he can put his finish on them. While I was there he had about 50 of these white 1911's.
He also does a ton of DoD stuff. From the DEA to the Seals to LA Sheriffs depart - he does alot of it (MP5's, AR's, Grenade Launchers, Barett 50, etc...). When I was at the shop to drop off my Hi Power, he had a Barrett 50 caliber sitting in his office corner and had the usual variety of 870's, AR's, Remington PSS's and MP5s that were waiting to be done.
With regards to the submarines, Birdsong puts his Black T finish on the propellers/jets of "robots" that these submarines use to look around. He told me that his finish had lasted several thousand (I forget how many) hours in saltwater.
Yes, he does not advertise because he already has so many contracts. He was happy to take my guns though. It took about 3 mos. to get my guns back, but it was worth it.
I have a 1911 that he needs refinishing - its going to Walter to get the Black T. If one of my XD's ever has a finish problem, I'm not sending it back to Springfield, but taking it to Walter.
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1,578 Posts
I think this Black-T stuff is exactly what I've been searchin for.
Instead of spendin 50ish bucks on a standard finish, just get the bestest?
I wonder how this stuff does agains gun solvents/cleaners
BTW too much radiation will make you look like this :mrgreen:
Instead of spendin 50ish bucks on a standard finish, just get the bestest?
I wonder how this stuff does agains gun solvents/cleaners
BTW too much radiation will make you look like this :mrgreen:
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