Springfield XD Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hey everyone i posted a topic earlier about which is best for defense and so on.......and from the way it looks remington .40 golden sabres have the best one shot stop ratios however......
i have become quite close to several indiana state troopers...and yesterday one told me that they're issued speer gold dots....and proceeded to tell me that the main reason isnt for "one stop shots"....but "they have the best tests for going through windshields and staying true to target"
I was just curious to people's thoughts of this statement
is it overkill when it comes to my personal use or is it" since state troopers use it, i should use it"
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,861 Posts
FatMatt1981 said:
I was just curious to people's thoughts of this statement
is it overkill when it comes to my personal use or is it" since state troopers use it, i should use it"
God forbid you should ever wind up in court over a shooting but if some lawyer was trying to convince a jury that the ammo you used was "overkill," your defense would be that every trooper in the state carries the same ammo.

Can't hurt to use what the pros do..........IF IT IS THE BEST AMMO FOR YOU AND YOUR GUN..... IF YOU CAN'T SHOOT IT WELL AND YOUR GUN DOESN'T LIKE IT THEN IT'S NOT WORTH A DAMN TO YOU.

Good luck,

bd
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,137 Posts
one-shot stop test data is worthless in practical terms. I'd say just get off the one-shot stop kick and find some good dependable ammo. Gold Dot has an excellent reputation and you can't go wrong with it. I think GS is good too.

You can't go wrong choosing from Gold Dot, Winchester Ranger T (which can be purchased from www.proload.com) or Federal Tactical. I would go with one of those three but if golden sabers work well in your gun those are fine too.

brad cook
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
307 Posts
The two best ways to create stopping power, no matter the caliber or bullet size/design, is shot placement and shooting multiple times. Those two combined are 1000 times more important that bullet design. Given that, further considerations are:

1 -- it must function perfectly in your gun EVERY time

2 -- you are able to shoot it accurately. Some shooters find that they can shoot a particular ammo better than others because of recoil. A smaller bullet that you can hit with is better than a bigger bullet that you can not.

3 -- good stopping power. There is no perfect test or measurement. One stop shots (Marshal & Sanow) make good comparisions between bullets in real life shootings, however they do not account for shot placement nor for the shootings where more than one shot was needed. Balistic gelatin is a good way to compare bullet performance because it is homogenious and therefore repeatable, however, the body is NOt homogenious and therefore can not predict what it will do if the body.

No test can account for the 14seconds of oxygenated blood in the body after a shooting, the metal state of the victim and the effect of illegal drugs like PCP.

The reality is, is if you hit what you are aiming for, and shoot till the threat stops, it does not matter what bullet you have.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
" since state troopers use it, i should use it"
_________________
Ayoob maintains if you do use the same load as your local Cops do it is more defesable in Court should you need it.

Otherwise having the ability to shoot thru doors or auto glass is not somthing a "Civilian" sould normally need to do in a statitically relevant situation.

None of this stuff means a hoot if your particular carry gun won't shoot to point of aim or feed reliabily.
You also have to be able to handle the recoil impulse and be able to place "Quick Aimed Pairs" to COM out to ca. 15M consistantly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
I have a friend that works in the State Police Crime Lab here, and I asked him what he thought the best self defensive round was. He told me Speer Gold Dot. One of his reasons was because when they are fired through a windshield they are the only bullet he has tested (besides the Black Talon) that kept their jacket on. He then mentioned that the Black Talons were good, if not better, but he hadn't tested the ranger talon yet. I gave him some ranger talons, and I'll let you guys know how they fair.

Aaron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
"He then mentioned that the Black Talons were good, if not better, but he hadn't tested the ranger talon yet."

Ranger T-Series IS the same as the old NLA "Black Talon" but without the black coating and with some improvemnets. It should not be confused with their regualr "Ranger" as they are not the same.

http://www.winchester.com/lawenforc...l.aspx?symbol=RA40TA&cart=40 Smith and Wesson

Below image shows why Chuck Taylor and others consider T-Series the best i.e., it's able to expand and cut.

"Ranger 9mm "T" Series after firing into bare gelatin. Click on the image to view in 3D!"

http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/default.aspx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
C.H.Luke said:
Ranger T-Series IS the same as the old NLA "Black Talon" but without the black coating and with some improvemnets. It should not be confused with their regualr "Ranger" as they are not the same.
Not quite the exact same, there have been at least 3 or 4 "generations" of the Black Talon/SXT/RangerT bullets, depending on the cartridge... the newest, RangerT, is significantly different than the original (shape and size of HP cavity, angle of the mouth of the HP, number of petals, etc.. its not just the same bullet without the black coating) And you are correct that there is some "Ranger" ammo loaded with regular JHP and FMJ bullets---"RangerT" vs "Ranger" on the boxes.

Alot of bad or old info get passed along on this type or board, but if you do enough research, you'll find the correct answers to you questions.

FWIW: RangerT and Speer GD are considered the top two of the "premium' JHP loads in 9/40/45... Fed Tactical and the newer HST are right up there, as is Remington Golden Saber--- Any of these should work if you put them where they need to go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,684 Posts
hmm.. well, you guys are getting a bit above my level.. so I won't waste your time with any sensless ramblings.

I do have this to submit.

I think I have decided on the Federal 147gr hydroshock JHP round for my personal carry round. I have been experimenting quite a bit.. I have tried Corbon, Speer Gold Dot, and some of the less expensive rounds (WWB, WWB JHP, Remington JHP, PMC, etc...) The Federal rounds that I have been shooting are consistent. It packs a bit of a whollup'! Which makes me comfortable. I also have noticed that when firing the Federal round it ejects in a more consitent manner. I don't know why this is exactly, but it does for me.

Really, the only concern I have about this round is that it has a steel casing. I have read on this board that steel on steel could cause a problem in that it could break some of the internal parts of my pistol. Obviously, I don't want that. I do like the way the round shoots though.. it has actually improved my accuracy! Plus, when I dig through the dirt to find the spent round, I find that the round is relatively whole.. unlike the cheaper rounds which seem to be shredded to bits of fragmented metal.

my .02

Raymond
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
"...and with some improvements..."

By "the same" it means their bullet has retained the cutting ability that got the original bullet "in trouble".....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,137 Posts
C.H.Luke said:
"...and with some improvements..."

By "the same" it means their bullet has retained the cutting ability that got the original bullet "in trouble".....
It's quite obvious if you compare an expanded black talon and an expanded Ranger T that they are most definitely not the same bullet.

brad cook
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
CaptainRay, I don't believe that the Hydrashocks have a steel casing. I "think" that they are nickel plated brass. I could be wrong. I just doubt that a round as respected as Hydrashocks would use a steel casing like Wolf ammo. Does anybody know what effect a nickel or nickel-plated brass casing has on the firing of the bullet? James...Old School? Do you guys know?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,684 Posts
southy said:
CaptainRay, I don't believe that the Hydrashocks have a steel casing. I "think" that they are nickel plated brass. I could be wrong. I just doubt that a round as respected as Hydrashocks would use a steel casing like Wolf ammo. Does anybody know what effect a nickel or nickel-plated brass casing has on the firing of the bullet? James...Old School? Do you guys know?
You may be right. Honestly I don't know for sure. I was reading in the thread on Wolf ammo, and caught that part about steel casings, then looking at the Federal ammo, it is shiny metal, and looks like steel.. although it could be nickel, or alluminum, or any number of alloys. There is nothing on the box that I saw that answers the questions, and I spent a little time looking it up on-line.. I didn't find the answers I was looking for.

If anyone knows for sure, I would be interested to know.

Raymond
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
527 Posts
You may be right. Honestly I don't know for sure. I was reading in the thread on Wolf ammo, and caught that part about steel casings, then looking at the Federal ammo, it is shiny metal, and looks like steel.. although it could be nickel, or alluminum, or any number of alloys. There is nothing on the box that I saw that answers the questions, and I spent a little time looking it up on-line.. I didn't find the answers I was looking for.
Use a magnet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,684 Posts
JCRich writes:

Use a magnet.
well.. I hadn't thought of that... should just take a second...

Nope.. they are not steel. The magnet doesn't stick. That was a good idea JC.. don't know why it didn't occur to me to try that in the first place.

Raymond
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
117 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
It's quite obvious if you compare an expanded black talon and an expanded Ranger T that they are most definitely not the same bullet.

brad cook[/quote]

You are telling us that T-Series does not have the ability to lacerate not unlike the original BT?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
813 Posts
Give me a HydraShok, Ranger, Speer, Winchester Silver Tip or pretty much any JHP from a reliable manufacturer and I feel fine and dandy carrying them. It doesn't matter if you have the "best" bullet or not, if you miss the target, it doesn't matter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,137 Posts
C.H.Luke said:
You are telling us that T-Series does not have the ability to lacerate not unlike the original BT?
I don't recall saying that. I'm telling you exactly what I told you, that if you look at an expanded Black talon versus an expanded ranger T it's quite obviously a different bullet. I would have posted pictures with that statement but I've been traveling for the past week and I still am traveling so I don't currently have access.

The old black talon jacket folded back in such a way that the talons stuck out almost perpendicular. Large talons that looked something like a saw blade when viewed from above. The new Ranger T jacket folds back much further and has much smaller talons that would only be able to lacerate if the bullet were to tumble inside the body. They don't stick out perpendicular from the bullet but are much more folded back under it. Again, I'll try and find some photos on my computer when I get back home.

brad cook
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top