Springfield XD Forum banner
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,
I am just wondering what would be the best Ball ammo for self defense considering my gun has some malfunctions with the HP untill I can fix the problem if I can. Please let me know your top choices. Thank you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,688 Posts
Ball ammo is designed for the military to wound the other guy. It may or may not stop someone attacking you. If I was limited to ball ammo I would stick with 45ACP. You might want to look into a copper jacketed semi wad cutter, depending on the gun you are using. In 9mm there are the truncated cone type of bullets that are better performers then ball, but not by much.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,428 Posts
Have you tried more than one HP type and brand? I've never seen and XD that will not feed at least one brand of HP.

Expanding full metal jacket would be my next choice. Better than FMJ and not as good as a quality HP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,197 Posts
Ball ammo is designed for the military to wound the other guy. It may or may not stop someone attacking you. If I was limited to ball ammo I would stick with 45ACP. You might want to look into a copper jacketed semi wad cutter, depending on the gun you are using. In 9mm there are the truncated cone type of bullets that are better performers then ball, but not by much.
Ball ammo is designed foremost to work 100% & to meet the Hague Convention. It is a poor performer in any pistol caliber. If your gun won't fee JHP then it probably won't feed SWC either. If I were stuck w/ FMJ, I would go big, 45cal, as large a flat point/meplate as I could get, dtill ball, but bigger hole. The old design Remington JHP as made for the 9mm & 45acp mimics ball ammo in profile & runs in most guns that will not feed a modern truncated cone design. Not as good as nmodern JHP, but better than ball.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,790 Posts
Hello,
I am just wondering what would be the best Ball ammo for self defense considering my gun has some malfunctions with the HP untill I can fix the problem if I can. Please let me know your top choices. Thank you!

It doesn't matter what I think, and to avoid further drift all I will do is answer your question.

You do not mention what caliber your pistol is so I will give a non specific answer.

Get the fastest heaviest load you can that will feed in your gun. For 45 that would be any 230 grain ball. 40 I would go 180 and for 9mm the 124 at 1200fps or faster would be best.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,292 Posts
No such animal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,197 Posts
It doesn't matter what I think, and to avoid further drift all I will do is answer your question.

You do not mention what caliber your pistol is so I will give a non specific answer.

Get the fastest heaviest load you can that will feed in your gun. For 45 that would be any 230 grain ball. 40 I would go 180 and for 9mm the 124 at 1200fps or faster would be best.
B, higher vel in a FMJ means little unless the bullet strikes bone, the bullet just gets thru the target a bit faster. Bullet shape w/ FMJ is far more important. Bigger bullet w/ the largest flat point you can get. Then some add'l. vel may help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,987 Posts
Corbon Pow'R ball should fit the bill. Thats what I picked up for my 40. they make it in other calibers too.

Then there is the Expanding Full Metal Jacket stuff from Federal (I think). I thinks it is targeted mainly for NJ's no HP laws (the Corbon might work there too). I think it looks a touch gimmicky for most peoples needs, but it should do what you want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,197 Posts
Thats why when I do carry ball I make sure its the fastest I can get in that weight.
Why, so it will certainly over penetrate? Vel alone means little when it comes to FMJ. If anything, you would want slightly less vel so the bullet just exits, but that is tough to gage.:confused:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,428 Posts
Why, so it will certainly over penetrate? Vel alone means little when it comes to FMJ. If anything, you would want slightly less vel so the bullet just exits, but that is tough to gage.:confused:
Right

EFMJ

One question for the OP. Why would you choose a weapon what won't feed HP for SD carry?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,197 Posts
Right

EFMJ

One question for the OP. Why would you choose a weapon what won't feed HP for SD carry?
If I were really stuck w/ FMJ, non expanding bullets, then I would choose a 45acp & handload it w/ the Lee 200grLFP cast soft. Huge meplate, feeds in every 45acp I have tried. Smacks inanimate targets pretty hard for a solid.
High vel FMJ are just a collateral damage law suit waiting to happen IMO.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,790 Posts
Why, so it will certainly over penetrate? Vel alone means little when it comes to FMJ. If anything, you would want slightly less vel so the bullet just exits, but that is tough to gage.:confused:

Why are you so worried about over penetration? When projectiles get lighter and thinner, yes velocity has a whole lot to do with how it kills when it comes to ball.

You have seen the exit wound of the deer I shot with M882. You have seen the picture of the 85 grain 7.62 Tokarev ball projectile I shot a deer with. That is the difference right there fred. Blocks of gello have no bones, you can poke your finger into a block of gello!. Let me know how much penetration you get when you poke your belly with your finger. You have no clue what a ball load will do in an animal if all you ever shoot is gello with ball loads.

Fred I talk alot about shooting deer, vermin and other critters. Some claim it has nothing to do with shooting 'other' animals. Fred, I get paid to shoot and I do lots of it. In real life in a non hunting setting I have experience with only ball loads. I can tell you, yes tell you, that ball from a 9x19mm pistol does just fine. The virtual unreality here and the interwebs will inform you and others otherwise and it makes me chuckle a little when I read such claims. It is not very PC to talk about, and real life experience is the last thing this forum needs. So we will leave it at that.


The OP is good with 230s at 880 or faster if they want. Whatever weight or caliber they need to stay away from the slower offerings.....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,428 Posts
Boris a .223 fjm at 3100 fps is no comparison to a pistol fmj.

Any fmj hitting bone will cause a large wound cavity due to the secondary projectiles created by bone fragments, for that matter HPs will do the same when hitting bone.

The jello shooters you mention are the ones that design your ball and HP rounds. They use "shock" "jello" to test new designs. Ball ammo will do almost identical damage to "jello" as it will do to animals, there are countless studies that prove this. Studies done by people shot not only "jello" but animals and who also compare "jello" shots to real life autopsy results. Military has done these kinds of test many times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,197 Posts
Why are you so worried about over penetration? When projectiles get lighter and thinner, yes velocity has a whole lot to do with how it kills when it comes to ball.

You have seen the exit wound of the deer I shot with M882. You have seen the picture of the 85 grain 7.62 Tokarev ball projectile I shot a deer with. That is the difference right there fred. Blocks of gello have no bones, you can poke your finger into a block of gello!. Let me know how much penetration you get when you poke your belly with your finger. You have no clue what a ball load will do in an animal if all you ever shoot is gello with ball loads.

Fred I talk alot about shooting deer, vermin and other critters. Some claim it has nothing to do with shooting 'other' animals. Fred, I get paid to shoot and I do lots of it. In real life in a non hunting setting I have experience with only ball loads. I can tell you, yes tell you, that ball from a 9x19mm pistol does just fine. The virtual unreality here and the interwebs will inform you and others otherwise and it makes me chuckle a little when I read such claims. It is not very PC to talk about, and real life experience is the last thing this forum needs. So we will leave it at that.


The OP is good with 230s at 880 or faster if they want. Whatever weight or caliber they need to stay away from the slower offerings.....
B, I too have shot my share of living things & NO pistol ammo does well w/ ball ammo, unless it hits bone. Maybe the animals where you are are diff, but that is my exp. Rifle vel, another matter, but still, vel alone never kills, good bullet performance & shot placement kills. A FMJ is only my choice when I am required to penetrate the deepest targets & willing to give up any expnasion, such as in heavy DG rifle rounds or big bore handgun rounds. FMJ in a service round , especially fast FMJ, liability at best, poor stopper, over penetration, yes a concern in urban areas, small near self sealing wound unless it tumbles.
BTW, to Tokarev & 30 Luger are almost identical., It was pretty much proven decades ago, the 30 Luger was a poor stopper w/ FMJ, regardless of vel. I doubt anything has changed but the name.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,790 Posts
Boris a .223 fjm at 3100 fps is no comparison to a pistol fmj.

Any fmj hitting bone will cause a large wound cavity due to the secondary projectiles created by bone fragments, for that matter HPs will do the same when hitting bone.

The jello shooters you mention are the ones that design your ball and HP rounds. They use "shock" "jello" to test new designs. Ball ammo will do almost identical damage to "jello" as it will do to animals, there are countless studies that prove this. Studies done by people shot not only "jello" but animals and who also compare "jello" shots to real life autopsy results. Military has done these kinds of test many times.
I know who Wolberg, Roberts, Fackler and all them guys are. I have read alot of what they have written. Gello will do nothing but tell you what average penetration you might get in a real animal. The OSM round gets 13" in gello. I got a consistant 10-17" in real life. That matches exactly what Wolberg found. The average is about 13" so gello will tell you pretty close what you might get in real life. DOnt be surprised if you find out later in life a round you endorse fails in a real shoot. It might average IWBA and FBI standards, but we got that real life range of penetration to throw in there. You might not get enough penetration if you have one that averages right at the minimum depth. Winchester 115 +P+ gave me a range of 5" to 8" in real life. Huge failure!!

Now on a note of experience, and I know you dont want to hear it, but here it is. When you hit bone with a projectile of the same weight but one has a lower velocity. Well, the lower velocity round has a greater chance of not breaking the bone and deflecting, even if it has a flat point fred. agalindo, I am talking pistol calibers, not rifles so keep it relevent please.

Once again agalindo. You can shoot gello all day with ball ammo. It will never be able to display what damage a projectile will do to flesh. All it does is give you an idea how deep the round will penetrate on an average. Thats it, nothing more. Some say it simulates flesh. No it dont. Go poke your finger into a steak and tell me how easy it is to poke through it. Poke your stomach, same results, it dont happen. Now go poke a gello block. You can put all your finger in, push a little harder and your hand will go all the way through. It is not a flesh simulant. It measures predicted penetration on an average in inches, thats it.


Fred, I will give you 20 years to go out and shoot as many deer as you can with every type of pistol round you can get. If you seriously think the 30 mauser will work as good as the 7.62x25mm then I need some of that stuff in your pippe. That 85 grain projectile at 1760fps works better than a 230 grain 45. Thats not an opinion or an I think Fred. If it were a miserable failure I would be blessed for stating so for backing up what you think or may have read somewhere else. Thats a mighty shame too. Alas, you dont need to believe a word I say, and I do not need to listen to what you think may be what would happen.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,428 Posts
I know who Wolberg, Roberts, Fackler and all them guys are. I have read alot of what they have written. Gello will do nothing but tell you what average penetration you might get in a real animal. The OSM round gets 13" in gello. I got a consistant 10-17" in real life. That matches exactly what Wolberg found. The average is about 13" so gello will tell you pretty close what you might get in real life. DOnt be surprised if you find out later in life a round you endorse fails in a real shoot. It might average IWBA and FBI standards, but we got that real life range of penetration to throw in there. You might not get enough penetration if you have one that averages right at the minimum depth. Winchester 115 +P+ gave me a range of 5" to 8" in real life. Huge failure!!

Now on a note of experience, and I know you dont want to hear it, but here it is. When you hit bone with a projectile of the same weight but one has a lower velocity. Well, the lower velocity round has a greater chance of not breaking the bone and deflecting, even if it has a flat point fred. agalindo, I am talking pistol calibers, not rifles so keep it relevent please.

Once again agalindo. You can shoot gello all day with ball ammo. It will never be able to display what damage a projectile will do to flesh. All it does is give you an idea how deep the round will penetrate on an average. Thats it, nothing more. Some say it simulates flesh. No it dont. Go poke your finger into a steak and tell me how easy it is to poke through it. Poke your stomach, same results, it dont happen. Now go poke a gello block. You can put all your finger in, push a little harder and your hand will go all the way through. It is not a flesh simulant. It measures predicted penetration on an average in inches, thats it.


Fred, I will give you 20 years to go out and shoot as many deer as you can with every type of pistol round you can get. If you seriously think the 30 mauser will work as good as the 7.62x25mm then I need some of that stuff in your pippe. That 85 grain projectile at 1760fps works better than a 230 grain 45. Thats not an opinion or an I think Fred. If it were a miserable failure I would be blessed for stating so for backing up what you think or may have read somewhere else. Thats a mighty shame too. Alas, you dont need to believe a word I say, and I do not need to listen to what you think may be what would happen.
115gr 9mm HPs don't meet IWBA/FBI standards so your confirming what has already been posted by the jello shooters. You yourself say that the OSM rounds average about 13" the tests you say you are familiar with are averages several shots also. Yes all rounds fail so I wouldn't be surprised if any of the rounds I recommend failed.

Being familiar with all the standards you are knocking you should know that 10% ballistics gel is not like the jello you make for dessert. :rolleyes:

Those "jello" shooters you love to mock do not only shoot gel they test the rounds in animals and compare to autopsy result to get their data.

While I'm not fred I will say that I don't believe a word you post. I've heard too many stories of your background and marksmanship with nothing to backup what you post.

While I don't have the uber hunting, and marksmanship skills that you claim to have I have actually done some hunting and have dress many an animal that's been shot. I seen what different types of ammo do to a living REAL living tissue. Don't think that because I agree with the scientific data posted by terminal ballistics experts, that I have never fired are round into a living animal. The data I post is backed up by scientific data and I can post it but you won't believe it because it just "jello" shooting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
786 Posts
.69 12ga slug
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top