[Juanderful]

According to this article, the CorBon 115gr DPX's are the best 9mm self-defense rounds for the XD9sc:

Tactical-Life.com » Best Loads for XD 9mm Sub-Compact

Do you guys agree?

The article claims that 124gr and 147gr rounds are too heavy and thus won't achieve enough velocity to expand sufficiently on impact. So, is it generally true that for subcompacts, it would be preferable to use 115gr for self-defense? I've seen many people suggesting 124's and 147's on these forums and others, but the article above states otherwise.

Any input would be appreciated

 

[Keltyke]

Corbon DPX is a great round and has excellent ballistics. Speer Gold Dot is also good, as are some other top SD rounds like Win PDX and others. 124 gr. isn't too heavy. Personally, I believe 147 gr. IS too heavy. The laws of physics apply. If the heavy bullet is hard to stop, it will be hard to get moving, too. All the powder MUST be burned by the time the bullet leaves the muzzle. For short barrels, that may mean a fast burning powder that's going to generate a sharper recoil. Many feel the 115 gr. is too light, but it's a proven weight. I've tried both the DPX and Gold Dot. I started carrying DPX but switched to Gold Dot.

Whatever round you choose, test it in your gun for reliability at least a box (usually 20 rounds). I like to test 100. No failures allowed. Check for POA and constant accuracy, too.

 

[iCreek]

I guess that would make sense with the short 3" barrel. I typically shoot 124 gr FMJ bullets in my reloads, target, plinking, and even shot a IPSC match with them. I guess I need to shoot a few through a chronograph and check the velosity and see how much difference there is between 115 gr and the others.

 

[Cuda66]

I do not agree.

147gr bullets are designed to open up at lower velocity enevlopes. A heavier bullet will spend more time in the bore, and will more likely be in that envelope than a lightweight screamer...and more likely to open up.

Add in that a 147gr bullet also has more mass, and will therefore have more momentum to punch deeper than the 115, assuming both open an equal %. 115's tend to underpenetrate.

Winchester themeselves actually recommend the 147gr loads for shorter barreled pistols.

With all due respect to Mr. Taylor, I think he's stuck in the last decade, with the older JHP designs. Modern 147's open up just fine.

 

[Cuda66]

Let me add after reading entire article--

I REALLY disagree with his premise that a "civilian" (police are civilians too...) needs less of a bullet than law enforcement. In his car glass reference--what if you need to shoot out from your vehicle--in, say, the case of a carjacking? Barrier penetration in a carry/self defense load is not a bad thing at all.

I will say, though, that if he finds his pistol does not shoot heavier bullets to point of aim, then he's got every good reason to go with another. That being said...his blanket disclaimer of 147gr rounds won't expand is outdated.

The DPX he chose is a good bullet, but the monometal HP's tend to act like heavier bullets as far as penetration, etc...the one thing about them, though, is that they are usually considerably more expensive than others. I can get close to 100 rounds of Ranger-T or Gold Dot for the same price as 20 rounds of DPX; so, after testing several magazines with the load to make sure it's good to go (which in my case is usually around 100 rounds)...the DPX becomes a very expensive proposition. IF DPX was the only round my pistol fed reliably, sure...the price would be worth it. But there's other, just as reliably performing, less expensive loads.

 

[georgepittenger]

I'm carrying 147g Ranger Ts . Decent price , shoots well and is reliable for me in my XD . I'm confident with it and that is all the comfort that I need .

But let's be serious - anybody wanna get shot with ANY of the referenced rounds ?

When I was younger I used to want to get PERFECTION in most everything . With a little age I accept 90% of that and move on ......

It's all good .

 

[Cuda66]

I'm carrying 147g Ranger Ts . Decent price , shoots well and is reliable for me in my XD . I'm confident with it and that is all the comfort that I need .

But let's be serious - anybody wanna get shot with ANY of the referenced rounds ?

When I was younger I used to want to get PERFECTION in most everything . With a little age I accept 90% of that and move on ......

It's all good .

George...that's what I normally refer to as the World's Stupidest Argument in favor of any bullet/caliber/gun. It's bumper sticker logic; sounds good unless you actually think about it.

Of course none of us here want to get shot with ANYTHING. Heck, I don't want to get shot with a BB pistol...does that mean it's a good choice for self defense?

The reason we don't want to get shot with anything is because we're rational. However, if one assumes that any assailant will be rational...well, I think one would be gravely (pun intended) mistaken.

Get a round that will likely STOP an attacker, not get them to cry "owies".

 

[bunk22]

George...that's what I normally refer to as the World's Stupidest Argument in favor of any bullet/caliber/gun. It's bumper sticker logic; sounds good unless you actually think about it.

Of course none of us here want to get shot with ANYTHING. Heck, I don't want to get shot with a BB pistol...does that mean it's a good choice for self defense?

The reason we don't want to get shot with anything is because we're rational. However, if one assumes that any assailant will be rational...well, I think one would be gravely (pun intended) mistaken.

Get a round that will likely STOP an attacker, not get them to cry "owies".

Yet he's referencing the 9mm rounds..not a bb gun or anything else. The main reason you don't want to get shot by a 9mm is because you could get seriously hurt, dead, etc...a criminal could as well. Like I've said before, my wife was shot by a 9mm in a limb and yeah, didn't stop her but even a self defense round would not have in that caliber. I do however believe that finding a good self-defense round is key, gives a bit more piece of mind.

 

[Cuda66]

Yet he's referencing the 9mm rounds..not a bb gun or anything else. The main reason you don't want to get shot by a 9mm is because you could get seriously hurt, dead, etc...a criminal could as well. Like I've said before, my wife was shot by a 9mm in a limb and yeah, didn't stop her but even a self defense round would not have in that caliber. I do however believe that finding a good self-defense round is key, gives a bit more piece of mind.

The point being: a rational person does not want to get shot with anything; an assailant may very well be in a state of mind where they aren't rational and/or don't care about being shot, and only a round that will either a) seriously disrupt CNS or b) make a big enough wound to rapidly drop their blood pressure will get them to stop doing whatever it is that made you decide it was necessary to shoot them.

Not all 9mm rounds are capable of doing that. Heck, not even all 9mm JHP's are. For a wonderful example of a perfectly placed 9mm round failing miserably, l just look up the "Miami Massacre" sometime. That was a 115gr Silvertip.

In short: just because I (or you, or anyone here) wouldn't want to get shot with anything, doesn't mean it's an effective self-defense choice.

Hence, a bumper-sticker logic argument.

 

[Juanderful]

Some serious discussion going on here

As I have no idea what the prices are for the DPX rounds I mentioned (which seems to be quite expensive according to you guys), what do you guys think is a decently priced round that will be available in most/all stores(in California mainly)? I called in to my local shops, and none of them carry the CorBon DPX's. I'm guessing the DPX's are either bought up quickly or are too expensive for stores to carry them regularly.

I'm basically just looking to find a decently-priced, well-known round that is regularly carried at most stores. Because I don't want to worry about having to hunt down a specific type of round whenever I need to restock (like the DPX in this case).

 

[Cuda66]

Some serious discussion going on here

As I have no idea what the prices are for the DPX rounds I mentioned (which seems to be quite expensive according to you guys), what do you guys think is a decently priced round that will be available in most/all stores(in California mainly)? I called in to my local shops, and none of them carry the CorBon DPX's. I'm guessing the DPX's are either bought up quickly or are too expensive for stores to carry them regularly.

I'm basically just looking to find a decently-priced, well-known round that is regularly carried at most stores. Because I don't want to worry about having to hunt down a specific type of round whenever I need to restock (like the DPX in this case).

DPX is usually upwards of $1.50 per round. One can often find Ranger-T, HST, or Gold Dot for around .50-.75 per round.

Of the three, the one you will most likely find on a dealer's shelves is Gold Dot. Other good choices would include Winchester's PDX-1, or Remington's Golden Saber (also available as Remington UHD (Ultimate Home Defense).

I recommend reading this: Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Not only does it give recommended loads, but it gives the reasoning behind WHY they are recommended.

 

[georgepittenger]

Some serious discussion going on here

As I have no idea what the prices are for the DPX rounds I mentioned (which seems to be quite expensive according to you guys), what do you guys think is a decently priced round that will be available in most/all stores(in California mainly)? I called in to my local shops, and none of them carry the CorBon DPX's. I'm guessing the DPX's are either bought up quickly or are too expensive for stores to carry them regularly.

I'm basically just looking to find a decently-priced, well-known round that is regularly carried at most stores. Because I don't want to worry about having to hunt down a specific type of round whenever I need to restock (like the DPX in this case).

Well , first off you won't be going through too many rds of SD ammo once u make a selection , so the expense should be a non-factor .

I have a mag of SD that stays there and that mag gets swapped out when I go to the range , where I use inexpensive ammo since the XD will eat just about anything .

A very good SD round , that shouldn't be hard to find locally , is Speer Gold Dot .
Do you agree Cuda ?

 

[agalindo]

Winchester recommends the 147 gr 9mm for short barrels. It looses less velocity and is specifically designed to reliably expand at slower velocities. The fast and light bullets tend to loose much more velocity when being shot out of a short barrel.

Corbon dpx is a bit over hyped and while it does perform well it doesn't do anything that HST, Rangers, PDX, and Gold Dot don't do just as well and sometimes even better.

 

[Cuda66]

Well , first off you won't be going through too many rds of SD ammo once u make a selection , so the expense should be a non-factor .

I have a mag of SD that stays there and that mag gets swapped out when I go to the range , where I use inexpensive ammo since the XD will eat just about anything .

A very good SD round , that shouldn't be hard to find locally , is Speer Gold Dot .
Do you agree Cuda ?

124 or 147 grain, yes, I agree--contingent on Juanderful's XD shooting it reliably, with what he considers acceptible accuracy and control in rapid fire from all of his carry/SD mags loaded to full capacity (which, being in CA, is all of ten rounds...guess if there's a bright side to that, he doesn't expend as much ammo verifying his loads...).

And, personally, every few months I like to shoot my carry ammo. It prevents bullet setback getting too extreme, and let's me refresh my carry mags. I wouldn't say that it's necessary, but I like to do it for peace of mind.

ETA--and well, when I finally chose a carry load for my Baer (230gr Golden Saber), I put ten mags of Ranger-T, HST, Golden Saber, Gold Dot, and PDX-1 through it. Yes, that was 400 rounds of premium JHP's. What I found out was that it'll feed anything, but one of my mags didn't like PDX-1, and that on a rapid mag dump (8 rounds, 1.8 seconds avg), the GS was the only load that would stay entirely within the ""A" head zone of an IPSC target.

 

[Juanderful]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I've decided to go with the Speer Gold Dot 124gr, as it seems to be highly-praised and available everywhere. Though, I went on Speer's site and saw that they had a Gold Dot "Short Barrel" version (124gr also). Would that version be better for the XD9sc (3" barrel)?

 

[bunk22]

The point being: a rational person does not want to get shot with anything; an assailant may very well be in a state of mind where they aren't rational and/or don't care about being shot, and only a round that will either a) seriously disrupt CNS or b) make a big enough wound to rapidly drop their blood pressure will get them to stop doing whatever it is that made you decide it was necessary to shoot them.

Not all 9mm rounds are capable of doing that. Heck, not even all 9mm JHP's are. For a wonderful example of a perfectly placed 9mm round failing miserably, l just look up the "Miami Massacre" sometime. That was a 115gr Silvertip.

In short: just because I (or you, or anyone here) wouldn't want to get shot with anything, doesn't mean it's an effective self-defense choice.

Hence, a bumper-sticker logic argument.

I know you like to think of yourself as the resident "self appointed" internet commando expert :razz: which is very akin to being that bumper sticker expert. Most of us are probably aware of the Miami incident. Like I've said before, if all you have is a 115 FMJ 9mm rounds, it's better than nothing. That's what we carried in the Navy when we flew over bad guy country. If only the Navy had consulted you before doing so lol But yeah, there are excellent rounds for self-defense and that's what I carry for obvious reasons.

 

[Keltyke]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I've decided to go with the Speer Gold Dot 124gr, as it seems to be highly-praised and available everywhere. Though, I went on Speer's site and saw that they had a Gold Dot "Short Barrel" version (124gr also). Would that version be better for the XD9sc (3" barrel)?

I haven't studied the ballistics of the "Short Barrel" version, and frankly, I'm not sure which I have loaded right now. I'd compare a box of each and see which shoots better in your gun and go with that.

 

[agalindo]

I know you like to think of yourself as the resident "self appointed" internet commando expert :razz: which is very akin to being that bumper sticker expert. Most of us are probably aware of the Miami incident. Like I've said before, if all you have is a 115 FMJ 9mm rounds, it's better than nothing. That's what we carried in the Navy when we flew over bad guy country. If only the Navy had consulted you before doing so lol But yeah, there are excellent rounds for self-defense and that's what I carry for obvious reasons.

The military has to use fmj we don't. A 9mm fmj will make roughly a .22 caliber hole in tissue an expanded hp, depending on the size it expands to will make a much larger hole. Since stopping a bad guy reliably doesn't happen by making them say ouch, you need a round that will penetrate deep and make the biggest hole. The only reliable way to stop a bad guy is either a CNS hit or bleed out. Knowing and studying terminal ballistics doesn't make anybody a commando, it just makes them a bit more knowledgeable about the subject than others.

 

[bunk22]

The military has to use fmj we don't. A 9mm fmj will make roughly a .22 caliber hole in tissue an expanded hp, depending on the size it expands to will make a much larger hole. Since stopping a bad guy reliably doesn't happen by making them say ouch, you need a round that will penetrate deep and make the biggest hole. The only reliable way to stop a bad guy is either a CNS hit or bleed out. Knowing and studying terminal ballistics doesn't make anybody a commando, it just makes them a bit more knowledgeable about the subject than others.

Understand it all but guess what is better than not having a good sd round? Yep, an fmj round. If you internet wanna be experts would actually read what I've written, I've never argued the point that there are not better rounds. I will say though that there isn't always a reliable way to stop bad guys with a handgun from what I've read. I recently read a story of a bad guy dying quickly with a single 22 round to the heart. Stopped him instantly according to the story. Then of course there are the stories of bg taking mulitple hits from sd rounds and didn't stop them immediately. We use these sd because judging by testing, they should do a better job at stoping the bg. Certainly why I use 124 +p in my 9mm for sd. Most of us read the same stuff as you internet studs so we get it but like I've said before, know what the best gun and ammo is? The one you've got on you.

 

[agalindo]

Not stud and not an wanna be expert just someone that like to study terminal ballistics. I have yet to call you any name so why are you? Yes as you say a pistol is a poor man stopper so one tries to get the best bullet for the job. I knew this guy that was shot in the heart with a .22 lr rifle while loading it in a truck. Yep the guy died but it wasn't instant. The other guys with him drove him 20+ miles to this small town hospital where he died a few minutes after getting there. On the way to hospital he was talking telling the driver to hurry. Any small round will kill if it hits a vital organ it just takes longer to put the bad guy down with a smaller hole in him.