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Discussion Starter #1
I'm new to 40's so please forgive me. Which brand would be the best for defensive use, and what bullet weight. I've been usin Federal hyrdashoks 180gr. Which has more stopping power, a bullet with higher weight or lower. I've heard Speer is about the best.
Thanks for your help
 

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This would be a very good FAQ... It is asked time and time and time again. The FAQ should cover 9, 40 and 357. Of course as most of us know there is no "one correct answer" so a list of ammo's would be required.
 

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Matt,

If your pistol is putting those Federal Hydroshocks where you aim then you have already found the best ammo for your gun.

"Stopping power" is a highly debateable term, in theory "bigger is better" stands to reason but a shot to center mass with a 135 gr. corbon is going to have more effect than an off center shot with a 180 gr. hydroshock.

Find the load that works best for you and your gun and stick with it, don't worry about grain weights and etc unless you are reloading.

See this site for related "stopping power" info.

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=11&Weight=135

Speer is very good ammo......if it shoots well from your particular gun, all
XD 40's will not shoot the same ammo the same way.

bd

I agree with one-eyed fatman. There is no one correct answer and this would be a very good topic to include in the new FAQ's.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I appreciate the feedback. I bought my XD only for defensive purposes.....I've only shot around 50rds of Winchester white box through it...hit where I was aiming... Only hopefully, to never have to be used again...well except for that cat one time lol Hyrdashcks on a cat..OMG :twisted:
I've talked to Indiana State Troopers here locally, and they're why I decided to go 40, but never asked what grainage etc.
I figured they'd be the ones to ask...since it's what they do.
Just curious as to what would be the best knock down round for when I do happen to need it..........I know it wouldnt be cool to get shot with anything, but you know what I mean.
 

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Matt,

According to the site I posted for you.........

From data collected in 146 shootings, Remington 165g. Golden Sabres produced 137 one stop shots, that's 94% of the time. But they were used a whole lot more than any other round on the list as far as I looked. I suspect they are commonly used by law enforcement because of the frequency of the shootings reported and data collected.

They are the highest rated for .40 caliber ammo according to this site.

It's hard to commit to a specific formula for "knock down", all targets aren't the same. Is a Remington 165g. GS going to have the same "knockdown" effect on a 300 lb. psycho wacked out on crystal meth as it will a 140 lb. idiot who's trying to carjack you? Sure, maybe if you hit them both between the eyes.......but you see my point?

Just concentrate on hitting your target.

Don't sweat the small stuff.

Any weight, name brand, .40 caliber ammo will get the job done as long as you do your part.

There is no "magic bullet".

bd
 

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Discussion Starter #7
bd said:
Matt,




It's hard to commit to a specific formula for "knock down", all targets aren't the same. Is a Remington 165g. GS going to have the same "knockdown" effect on a 300 lb. psycho wacked out on crystal meth as it will a 140 lb. idiot who's trying to carjack you? Sure, maybe if you hit them both between the eyes.......but you see my point?



.


bd
You hit the nail right on the head my friend. One of the main reasons I decided to start carrying. That stuff is a major problem around here. People cooking the crap, and blowin themselves up all the time. People bein all tweaked out, and beatin someone down for only their wallet. Hell there's been people messed up pretty bad by someone on the crap, just over road rage.
The usual thing around here........where's a cop when ya need one.
 

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One thing to also consider is over penetration. If you think you may have to use it indoors or where their may be innocent bystanders. Hydrashok's seem to be one of the best choices to prevent over penetration. Unless you can get some frangible rounds that the military is starting to use at pistol ranges. Instant coleslaw inside a BG.
 

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bd said:
There is no "magic bullet".

bd
Yes, there is. But I can't tell you where I bought my magic bullets from. I will give you a clue though. I got them from a gnome.....

-Dana
 

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Discussion Starter #10
them gnomes have been stealing my sanity for years
they gave me some magic beans once, but they just gave me gas :lol:
 

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Fatmatt1981, I feel the need to respond to a couple of things you said in this post. 1st, you said you shot 50 rounds through the gun and hope never to have to use it again. If this is a carry gun you should be practicing with it at least once a month, more if you can. 2nd, no pistol has "knock down" power. Battle rifles do, but pistols do not. That is why shot placement is so important. The only way to better you odds is to get training and practice, alot. Good Luck.
 

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Street Dog said:
Battle rifles do, but pistols do not.
You mean battle rifles like the .308 and the .223. Not bloody likely. Second Chance founder Rich Davis used to routinely give demonstrations where he would stand on one foot wearing one of his companies vests and have someone shoot him with a .308 after shooting him with a .44 mag. Neither one had the ability to "knock down" this average-sized man. You don't get any better proof than that. Also, you can read just about any military book and hear stories of enemies being hit multiple times with rifle rounds and just keep charging with no visible effect.

EDIT: I was just kidding when I said "Not bloody likely" because it's actually very likely that someone is going to fall down when shot with a rifle but it's not from the force of the bullet actually "knocking them down" like a bowling pin.

brad cook
 

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fatmatt,

Don't worry about the grain of the bullet. Use what you feel good shooting. I would have liked to seen this guy take one in the chest from a .308 or a .44 mag. I know that 5.56 takes people down as does 7.62, they do literally drop when hit in the chest. I've been hit with simrounds and that was enough for me. Trust me, if you start shooting, no matter what grain you are using in the .40 S&W, the situation will definately change!

airbornefist
 

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"well except for that cat one time lol Hyrdashcks on a cat"

So you liike to shoot Cats?

Next time you have the urge, travel to my State at my expense. Then we can introduce you to our new Felony animal anti-cruelty Laws! :twisted:

Can even arrange for one of the Big Boys at Sing-Sing to personally bestow upon you "his" "Little Jeffery Dahmer" Award. {Your cell or his, your preference}
 

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airbornefist said:
I know that 5.56 takes people down as does 7.62, they do literally drop when hit in the chest.
You can actually see it on a video available from Amazon. I can't remember the name of it but I can find out. Here's a still from the video footage:



There are plenty of soldiers that have been in combat that have watched the enemy take multiple rounds and keep coming. As I said before this is documented in numerous books and articles, Black Hawk Down is one book that immediately comes to mind. So you are saying that ANYONE hit in the chest with a 5.56 will immediately be knocked down? Dropping dead from massive trauma or psychological reaction is different than being knocked down. So what are you saying? If you are saying that then we need some evidence because from everything I've seen it's groundless statement.

brad cook
 

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Discussion Starter #16
i was kidding about shooting cats
 

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Discussion Starter #17
how far away from the target is good for practice?
20-25ft or 20-25yrds
 

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FatMatt1981 said:
how far away from the target is good for practice?
20-25ft or 20-25yrds
It depends on what you are practicing for. Here's my opinion on self defense practice.

SD shoots are for the most part very close. About arms length or so. Therefore you should be most proficient at these distances, although it may not require the majority of your practice time.


I practice shooting from retention, which means with one hand only, and with the pistol held in close to my side just above the holster. Be sure to keep your support side hand clear! A good technique when drawing your gun is to put your other hand over your navel until the gun is out in front of your body, then bring your support hand up to the gun from behind so as not to put your hand in front of the muzzle. Sorry if this is review for you, but it is the basis of the next part. If shooting from retention, keep the support side hand over your navel, or better would be to place it over the center of your chest. The idea is that if the BG shoots you mid chest you will have your arm/hand there to slow down or even deflect the bullet away from your vitals.

Anyhow, when shooting from retention you are not aiming with the sights, you are merely pointing the gun and "shooting from the hip" to loosely describe it. It's quicker to get off the first shot when shooting from retention and you are keeping your gun away from the bad guy so he cannot take it from you.

The next distance would be the 15-30 foot range roughly. This is where you are cornered and have to shoot your way out of a potentially lethal situation.

Next, I like to practice some longer shots, in the 50-75 foot range. Although very unlikely, it is possible especially in the outdoors to have to make a shot at such a distance.

Just for fun I occasionally shoot some 100 yard shots. Although extremely unlikely to have to make such a shot, it is nice to know that it can be done. About the only scenario I can think of is a sniper while camping/hiking, but anything is possible these days.

When shooting for defensive purposes, good enough is good enough. At Front Sight they teach hand sized groupings, meaning a grouping that you can cover with your hand, or about 4 to 6 inches in diameter. It is a tradeoff of speed vs precision at any distance. At closer distances you can achieve the hand sized grouping with high speed, but at further distances you will have to take more time to carefully aim and squeeze off the shot. Therefore it is important to practice at different distances to learn what kind of speed you can use.

In a real life shooting you will not shoot as well as you do when practicing. You will probably only be half as accurate under threat, so the hand sized groupings will open up but will still be theoretically good enough to hit the vital zones.

Practicing for self defense is different than practicing for precision target competitions and requires a different approach. Try to think of all the possible defensive scenarios and then set up practice sessions for them. Practice shooting from kneeling behind a barricade to simulate shooting from behind a desk in the bank or at the office. Shoot while seated in a chair to simulate a car jacking. Shoot one handed while moving. Mix it up so that you are comfortable shooting good enough at a variety of distances in a variety of situations.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
thank you very much for all the feedback
 

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"SD shoots are for the most part very close. About arms length or so."

Where did you get your data? Statistically gunfights happen in the 7 to 10 foot range.

"…if the BG shoots you mid chest you will have your arm/hand there to slow down or even deflect the bullet away from your vitals."

Well documented that a hand or arm will not provide any substantial protection from a bullet.

"...good enough is good enough. At Front Sight they teach hand sized groupings, meaning At Front Sight they teach hand sized groupings, meaning a grouping that you can cover with your hand, or about 4 to 6 inches in diameter."

The accepted reason is Handguns are low power weapons therefore, almost without fail, the best Instructors teach shooting "quick, aimed pairs" {at any distance} with a 6" separation because it does the most damage to COM.
 
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