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Discussion Starter #1
I'm looking hard at BCM BFH 16" lightweight midlength upper assembly for my summer build. I'm also considering the Noveske 16" light Recce basic also. The thing is I have a spare Troy TRX 9" standard Battlerail and I'm planning on using on this build. Now if I add the Troy rail to the BCM upper assembly it will put at almost the exact weight, minus a few fractions of an ounce, from the same weight as my current rifle. I would preffer it to be a little lighter but I'm really not wanting to throw down on another rail when I already have one I can use. I looked at similar uppers by Spikes and CMMG but neither offer the Cold Hammer forged assemblies. The CMMG actually comes out about the same price as the BCM and the Spikes is about $150 less then the BCM or CMMG. The Noveske comes out about $150 more then the BCM but has a gunfighter charging handle and vortex flash suppressor. I'm not big on the Vortex so I'd probably swap it out. But the Gunfighter handle I have on my current rifle and probably would get one later if I don't get the Noveske.
The rifle will be used as an alternate competion rifle (entry level) or home defense/SHTF rifle.

Any one care to share there opinion or experiences with any of these uppers?

Also I was having trouble finding information on "lightweight" barrels. My google foo is failing me...
I'm under the understanding that the thinner barrel tends to heat up faster with useage which can affect accuracy during that time.
So how quickly does this happen like 100+ rounds ?More or less?
What kind of longevity can I expect out of a CHF LW barrel? The same as any other CFH barrel?
I'm trying to find the Pros and Cons of using an CHF lightweight barrel compared to using any other barrel profiles...

Side note I originally planned to use a JTR upper but thats pricey and I'd rather have Kevin build the upper for my next project an 18" or 20" SPR that I'll fork out some major $$$$ for. Just wanted to keep the cost down on this one I just spent $1500-1800 on my last build....
 

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Really?!? The BCM BFH 16" lightweight midlength upper with your extra Troy TRX non-extreme 9" FF handguard will tip the scales at about the same weight as your BCM SS410 middy upper with the same 9" TRX handguard? I dunno... Maybe check your math on that. This is what I came up with:

-BCM SS410 16" mid-length upper (ION BOND) with a standard FSB, A2 FH, no handguards, no CH, no rear sight, and no BCG should weigh in at about 51.8 ounces (3.2375 lbs).

-BCM BFH 16" lightweight mid-length upper with a standard FSB, A2 FH, no handguards, no CH, no rear sight, and no BCG should weigh in at about 43.6 ounces (2.725 lbs)

The BFH lightweight middy should come in about 1/2 pound lighter than a similarly equipped SS410 midddy upper. I came up with 8.2 ounces lighter, but your mileage may vary.


I have a BCM BFH lightweight middy upper with a standard FSB and an A2 FH, and minus the plastic handguards, rear sight, CH, and BCG, it weighs 9 oz less than my similarly stripped down 16" HBAR middy upper.


If the BFH lightweight mid-length upper is setup the same as your SS410 upper, it should weigh noticeably less. If you have a different HG on your SS410 upper than the one stated in your build thread, then yeah, all of my work here can be pitched out the window.


For an alternate entry level competition rifle, the BFH lightweight should certainly work. Bear in mind that it is a different animal than your SS410 barrel, and your results with each may vary slightly. As a defensive or SHTF rifle, heck yeah, the BFH lightweight will work.

Because they have less material to soak up and dissipate heat, lightweight profile barrels will heat up faster, but they will also cool faster. According to the majority of LW owners around the interwebs, unless you are doing repeated 30-round magazine dumps, you probably won't heat one up to really affect accuracy. I haven't run mine very hard, so I don't really know. Guys that have run their LWs through classes haven't reported any POI shifts based on what I've read (you're Google-fu may vary).


I would expect a LW hammer forged barrel to last as long as any other hammer forged barrel.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
According to the information I received the
BCM 16" SS410 (Ionbond black) midlength upper assembly weighs 3lb 3.8 oz or 51.8 oz
BCM 16" BFH lightweight midlength upper assembly weighs 2lb 11.2 oz or 43.2oz
Troy TRX 9" Extreme weighs 8.46 oz
Troy TRX 9" standard Battlerail is 16.72 oz.

BCM 16" SS410 upper (51.8 oz)+ Troy Extreme rail (8.46 oz) = 60.26 oz or 3.77 lb
BCM 16" BFH LW upper (43.2 oz) + Troy standard Battlerail (16.72 oz) = 59.92 oz or 3.75 lb

So thats how i came up with them being almost identicle in weight or did I miss something? It is possible i just went by the info BCM and Troy provided...
 

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So, you have a TRX Extreme on your SS410 upper, and not a regular TRX?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yep :)
I originally had the standard on my build but swapped it out for an Extreme rail a few weeks back. I updated my build page and pics when I switched. I decided I'd use the standard rail on my next build which was going to be a 14.5 w/ pinned flash/comp. Decided to go another route. Thanks for the info though. It appears i've lost my google foo touch...
 

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I see. I guess I missed the update. Oops.

OK, so on paper, the SS410 upper with the TRX Extreme HG and the BFH LW upper with the standard TRX HG weigh about the same. BUT, because of how the weigh is distributed, the LW upper with the standard TRX HG will likely feel a little lighter, and will swing faster.

For the following, lets assume you have the same lower receiver assembly fitted to each upper assembly. and for simplicity, we'll use your numbers, but round the SS410 upper down to 3.75 lbs:

The TRX extreme HG on the SS410 upper makes up only a small portion of the overall weight. Most of the weight on the SS410 upper is in the barrel, and is distributed along the entire 16" of the barrel, so when you raise the rifle and manuever it around, you're manipulating most of the mass from the chamber out to the muzzle.

The standard TRX may weigh almost twice as much as the Extreme model, but when coupled with a LW barrel, you are distributing most of that weight along only half of the barrel length (from the receiver out to about 8"). Yes, the standard TRX + LW barrel upper weighs about the same as the SS410 upper, but the weight is distributed differently. With the standard TRX HG and the LW barrel, you have the weigh closer to the central axis (you). More importantly, the 5" or so of the barrel from the FSB to the muzzle is thinner, and thus lighter. Less weight at the distal (farthest) end means less energy will be required to get it moving; making it faster to bring up and swing side to side.


On paper, both configurations do weigh about the same. But because of how the weigh is distributed, both will handle completely differently. More of the weight close in, and less weight out at the end makes for faster/easier rotation.


If you want another upper/rifle but you don't want to break the bank now, I recommend going with the BCM BFH upper and fitting your standard TRX HG to it. And maybe when you do your next build, or maybe the build after that, you can swap out the standard TRX for a TRX Extreme or other lightweight FF HG, and then you'll have a crazy-lightweight upper on your hands. Woohoo!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I see. I guess I missed the update. Oops.

OK, so on paper, the SS410 upper with the TRX Extreme HG and the BFH LW upper with the standard TRX HG weigh about the same. BUT, because of how the weigh is distributed, the LW upper with the standard TRX HG will likely feel a little lighter, and will swing faster.

For the following, lets assume you have the same lower receiver assembly fitted to each upper assembly. and for simplicity, we'll use your numbers, but round the SS410 upper down to 3.75 lbs:

The TRX extreme HG on the SS410 upper makes up only a small portion of the overall weight. Most of the weight on the SS410 upper is in the barrel, and is distributed along the entire 16" of the barrel, so when you raise the rifle and manuever it around, you're manipulating most of the mass from the chamber out to the muzzle.

The standard TRX may weigh almost twice as much as the Extreme model, but when coupled with a LW barrel, you are distributing most of that weight along only half of the barrel length (from the receiver out to about 8"). Yes, the standard TRX + LW barrel upper weighs about the same as the SS410 upper, but the weight is distributed differently. With the standard TRX HG and the LW barrel, you have the weigh closer to the central axis (you). More importantly, the 5" or so of the barrel from the FSB to the muzzle is thinner, and thus lighter. Less weight at the distal (farthest) end means less energy will be required to get it moving; making it faster to bring up and swing side to side.


On paper, both configurations do weigh about the same. But because of how the weigh is distributed, both will handle completely differently. More of the weight close in, and less weight out at the end makes for faster/easier rotation.


If you want another upper/rifle but you don't want to break the bank now, I recommend going with the BCM BFH upper and fitting your standard TRX HG to it. And maybe when you do your next build, or maybe the build after that, you can swap out the standard TRX for a TRX Extreme or other lightweight FF HG, and then you'll have a crazy-lightweight upper on your hands. Woohoo!
Thanks hikeeba!
For your insite and your patience. I was kinda choppy on my responses due to the fact I was working and responding to your responses. I hope I didn't come off short just had to reply quickly at the time.
Thats alot of the information I was looking for and yes I forgot about the central axis playing into balance and weight distribution. I'm pretty dead set on getting the BCM BFH Lightweight upper for this build! I agree that later I may swap rails for something lighter but I'm no small fry and the first rifle is pretty easy to use even with the weight pushing out farther... :cool:
 

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You're welcome, jn_fsu. I think the BFH LW upper would be a nice contrast to your SS410 upper. Whatever you ultimately decide to get, good luck, be safe, and have fun with it.
 
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