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Discussion Starter · #141 ·
Hi!

I just wanted to share a link here to one of my range reports where Mr. @TSiWRX shared more excellent information regarding training, techniques, gear, etc. Thank you!


I also wanted to let you know that I bought a couple of little bottles of the Glow-On paint to try out on my sights.


I have SpeedSights on my XD9. I had to replace the stock sights because of these old eyes. 🤓 My front sight has green Tritium but my rear sights are passive white.


Gesture Finger Body jewelry Wrist Jewellery


I did not want to put paint all over my rear sights. I thought I'd start with just a couple of dots on the inside of the rear sight diamonds. I was impressed how well those two little dots worked. In the picture below the room was near pitch dark, the only light being what was sneaking in under the bedroom door or through the curtains from the street lights.

Automotive lighting Gas Space Midnight Electric blue


Sure, it's a lousy cell phone picture but gives you an idea about the product. I think this will do very nicely for now. It certainly is a lot cheaper and more convenient than the TFX Pro sights I will have someday. ;)


Green Product Gadget Input device Font


Hey guys, thanks for putting up with my noob ramblings as I make my way through the firearms jungle in search of proficiency. :D


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 

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Hi!

I just wanted to share a link here to one of my range reports where Mr. @TSiWRX shared more excellent information regarding training, techniques, gear, etc. Thank you!


I also wanted to let you know that I bought a couple of little bottles of the Glow-On paint to try out on my sights.


I have SpeedSights on my XD9. I had to replace the stock sights because of these old eyes. My front sight has green Tritium but my rear sights are passive white.


View attachment 850923

I did not want to put paint all over my rear sights. I thought I'd start with just a couple of dots on the inside of the rear sight diamonds. I was impressed how well those two little dots worked. In the picture below the room was near pitch dark, the only light being what was sneaking in under the bedroom door or through the curtains from the street lights.

View attachment 850924

Sure, it's a lousy cell phone picture but gives you an idea about the product. I think this will do very nicely for now. It certainly is a lot cheaper and more convenient than the TFX Pro sights I will have someday. ;)


View attachment 850925

Hey guys, thanks for putting up with my noob ramblings as I make my way through the firearms jungle in search of proficiency. :D


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
I bit the bullet on the tfx pro sites after the micro 9 I bought came with them from the factory. Worth every penny…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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@BassCliff -

Give live-fire a try, in the darkness where you can actually see your "night-sights," ASAP.

Pay attention to:
  • Can you see your target?
  • Can you positively ID the target as threat/foe?
  • What kind of accuracy/precision can you expect, with your current setup?
    • Do your dots align to allow for perfect "sight picture?" or is there an offset (i.e. we know that proper use of the sights is to shoot off of the bodies of the sights, not the dots or other highlights - when you can't see the bodies of the sights, how do your luminous markers match up to produce a sight picture?
  • What kind of accuracy/precision can you expect, with just the front sight highlighted?
  • What kind of accuracy/precision can you achieve, without using sights at all?
  • How does white-light "tactical" flashlight use play with all of the above?
These are not questions that you need to answer to/for me - it's things to explore, for yourself. ;)
 

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Hi!

I just wanted to share a link here to one of my range reports where Mr. @TSiWRX shared more excellent information regarding training, techniques, gear, etc. Thank you!


I also wanted to let you know that I bought a couple of little bottles of the Glow-On paint to try out on my sights.


I have SpeedSights on my XD9. I had to replace the stock sights because of these old eyes. My front sight has green Tritium but my rear sights are passive white.


View attachment 850923

I did not want to put paint all over my rear sights. I thought I'd start with just a couple of dots on the inside of the rear sight diamonds. I was impressed how well those two little dots worked. In the picture below the room was near pitch dark, the only light being what was sneaking in under the bedroom door or through the curtains from the street lights.

View attachment 850924

Sure, it's a lousy cell phone picture but gives you an idea about the product. I think this will do very nicely for now. It certainly is a lot cheaper and more convenient than the TFX Pro sights I will have someday. ;)


View attachment 850925

Hey guys, thanks for putting up with my noob ramblings as I make my way through the firearms jungle in search of proficiency. :D


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
Do you carry concealed or open?

Do you carry a flashlight?

Will you be able to call a "tactical time out" in a SD situation so you can get light to charge the paint on those sights to make them function?
This is guessing that you carry concealed.
 

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Do you carry concealed or open?

Do you carry a flashlight?

Will you be able to call a "tactical time out" in a SD situation so you can get light to charge the paint on those sights to make them function?
This is guessing that you carry concealed.
^ Towards this "charging," it's actually one of the big reasons that I really like the photo-luminescent ring around the tritium tube in sights like the Trijicon HD.

You can experiment with this and find out for yourself, @BassCliff, with a handgun that only has tritium tubes - typically, upon transition to a darkened environment from an extremely bright one (i.e. sunlight, outdoors to a darkened motel room or warehouse interior), it takes a moment (a few eye-blinks' worth of time - think of this as the reverse of heading outdoors into bright sunlight, after you'd just been in the movie theater for 90 to 120 minutes) before your eyes will adjust sufficiently to the lowered light levels to enable you to see the tritium illumination.

With the photo-luminescent paint that surrounds the tritium element, as you transition from a bright (not just brighter - but actually "bright," as that's what's needed to actually "charge" that paint) environment to a darker one, the extremely bright photo-luminescent highlight will allow as-yet still maladapted eyes to be able to pick up on its brilliance - which, by the time it's faded-out, you'll have sufficient dark-adapted sight to pick up the fainter glow of the tritium lamp.

The truth is that there's a lot of different ways that the low-light equation can be dissected, and each tool -be it photo-luminescent paint, tritium gas tubes, self-powered optical sights, white-light and/or visible laser- has both its pros and cons. It's often a combination of the exact circumstances and personal preference that will drive how the decision is made.

And remember also it's not just about darkness - but also how the varying types of ambient lighting that is often seen in modern society can distort our scotopic vision. It's about understanding what photonics barriers are and how to combat them. It's about remembering that, as this article by Dr. House points out, while the statistics suggest that violent crimes most often occurs during hours of darkness, those same statistics fail to actually examine whether if the engagement truly took place in the dark. In the article, he quotes the legendary Tom Givens as saying that “There have been times where I have seen my sights clearer at 3 AM outside of a well-lit gas station than I have at 3 PM on an overcast day.” - Low light, red sights, and Tom Givens’ Glock 35

This is why it's so important to get out and get low-light training, so that you can start to experiment with the various hardware and techniques.

[ Here, it's worth noting that finding truly well-qualified low-light instruction is still somewhat of a crap-shoot, even today. Despite recent advances, oldthink, dogma, and outright misinformation still persists to a large extent in the community with regard to low-light white-light use. Vet your instructors very, very carefully, where it comes to this sector. If they can't tell the difference between lumens and candela/lux or demonstrate an understanding of photonics barriers, these basic vocabulary words can serve as watersheds for that initial yes/no in your decision tree. ]
 

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^ Towards this "charging," it's actually one of the big reasons that I really like the photo-luminescent ring around the tritium tube in sights like the Trijicon HD.

You can experiment with this and find out for yourself, @BassCliff, with a handgun that only has tritium tubes - typically, upon transition to a darkened environment, it takes a moment (a few eye-blinks' worth of time) before your eyes will adjust sufficiently to the dark to enable you to see the tritium illumination.

With the photo-luminescent paint that surrounds the tritium element, as you transition from a brighter environment to a darker one, the extremely bright photo-luminescent highlight will allow as-yet still maladapted eyes to be able to pick up on its brilliance - which, by the time it's faded-out, you'll have sufficient dark-adapted sight to pick up the fainter glow of the tritium lamp.

The truth is that there's a lot of different ways that the low-light equation can be dissected, and each tool -be it photo-luminescent paint, tritium gas tubes, self-powered optical sights, white-light and/or visible laser- has both its pros and cons. It's often a combination of the exact circumstances and personal preference that will drive how the decision is made.

And remember also it's not just about darkness - but also how the varying types of ambient lighting that is often seen in modern society can distort our scotopic vision. It's about understanding what photonics barriers are and how to combat them. It's about remembering that, as this article by Dr. House points out, while the statistics suggest that violent crimes most often occurs during hours of darkness, those same statistics fail to actually examine whether if the engagement truly took place in the dark. In the article, he quotes the legendary Tom Givens as saying that “There have been times where I have seen my sights clearer at 3 AM outside of a well-lit gas station than I have at 3 PM on an overcast day.” - Low light, red sights, and Tom Givens’ Glock 35

This is why it's so important to get out and get low-light training, so that you can start to experiment with the various hardware and techniques.
The 1/2 dozen sets of Trijicon HD sights I've used prior to switching to RDS, that ring in the front sight was useless if the gun was holstered and I am in a dark area.

I shot a rabid dog using an XD .45 with HD sights and the orange ring never glowed.
The business behind our house has mercury lights in there parking lot, which allowed me to know what I was shooting at, as I drew the gun in my dark yard I had two brighter rear dots and a dim front dot.

I no longer recommend HD sights because of that.

Here is an example, I just pulled that gun out if the safe and pointed it at a door with enough light to determine shoot/don't shoot.
Then took a 300 lumen flashlight and held it on the front sight for 10 seconds and that us the second pic at the exact same door.

The 10 seconds it took to activate/charge that paint, could make a person dead.
 

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Discussion Starter · #147 ·
Hi,

@BassCliff -

Give live-fire a try, in the darkness where you can actually see your "night-sights," ASAP.

Pay attention to:
  • Can you see your target?
  • Can you positively ID the target as threat/foe?
  • What kind of accuracy/precision can you expect, with your current setup?
    • Do your dots align to allow for perfect "sight picture?" or is there an offset (i.e. we know that proper use of the sights is to shoot off of the bodies of the sights, not the dots or other highlights - when you can't see the bodies of the sights, how do your luminous markers match up to produce a sight picture?
  • What kind of accuracy/precision can you expect, with just the front sight highlighted?
  • What kind of accuracy/precision can you achieve, without using sights at all?
  • How does white-light "tactical" flashlight use play with all of the above?
These are not questions that you need to answer to/for me - it's things to explore, for yourself. ;)
Yes indeed, all good questions/situations to ponder. As for accuracy, I put a dot of the glow paint right in the corner of the diamonds on the rear sight so that when you line up your sights it should be on target. Something like in this "simulation". (Pardon my lousy photo editing skills.)

Automotive lighting Font Automotive design Gas Fictional character


If I'm in a gun fight at night, in the dark, it would probably be a close range. I figure as long as the front sight is in the ball park I will be able to defend myself. This is a low-cost experiment, thought I'd give it a try. I have yet to train with a weapon light or a flashlight in my off hand. It's just part of my adventure. ;)


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
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Discussion Starter · #148 · (Edited)
Hi,

Do you carry concealed or open?

Do you carry a flashlight?
I carry concealed. I don't EDC a flashlight (yet) but I have one in my truck's glove box (300 lumens) and keep a big one (2500 lumens) on my nightstand. I've hinted that I wanted an EDC knife for Christmas, an EDC light will be next. I have not decided between weapon light and flashlight in my off hand. I'm getting there. ;) So for now, if necessary I will carry the flashlight in the off hand. I suppose I should practice that when I dry fire with my laser.

Will you be able to call a "tactical time out" in a SD situation so you can get light to charge the paint on those sights to make them function?
This is guessing that you carry concealed.
Maybe the perp will be kind enough to let me borrow his flashlight. 😝


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
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Discussion Starter · #149 ·
Hi,

The 1/2 dozen sets of Trijicon HD sights I've used prior to switching to RDS, that ring in the front sight was useless if the gun was holstered and I am in a dark area.

I shot a rabid dog using an XD .45 with HD sights and the orange ring never glowed.
The business behind our house has mercury lights in there parking lot, which allowed me to know what I was shooting at, as I drew the gun in my dark yard I had two brighter rear dots and a dim front dot.

I no longer recommend HD sights because of that.

Here is an example, I just pulled that gun out if the safe and pointed it at a door with enough light to determine shoot/don't shoot.
Then took a 300 lumen flashlight and held it on the front sight for 10 seconds and that us the second pic at the exact same door.


The 10 seconds it took to activate/charge that paint, could make a person dead.


Wow!

I appreciate the real-world experience. Forgive my tongue-in-cheek responses earlier.

This is just one stop along my Noob EDC adventures. I appreciate you guys helping with the tour guide duties. I appreciate all the help I can get.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
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Hi,



I carry concealed. I don't EDC a flashlight (yet) but I have one in my truck's glove box (300 lumens) and keep a big one (2500 lumens) on my nightstand. I've hinted that I wanted an EDC knife for Christmas, an EDC light will be next. I have not decided between weapon light and flashlight in my off hand. I'm getting there. ;) So for now, if necessary I will carry the flashlight in the off hand.



Maybe the perp will be kind enough to let me borrow his flashlight.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
Once you get into a low light class it will make the decision easier on what light to use.
I have a hand held that I use almost daily, dog pushes its bone under the couch, turn on your flashlight and there it is.
I also now use a weapon light, due to my body falling apart its easier to have a two handed grip on the gun while firing than a hand on a light and the other on the gun.
I still gave the handheld in case I need to see something but don't want to draw my weapon to see it, the hand held can be dropped while drawing and then use the weapon light as needed.

My original post was just to make you think about the painted sights before you actually need them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #151 ·
Hi,

I bit the bullet on the tfx pro sites after the micro 9 I bought came with them from the factory. Worth every penny…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They look like they will get the job done for me. If not, it'll be just another stop along my Noob EDC Adventures. :D

Thanks for the feedback. Merry Christmas!



Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
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Hi,



Wow!

I appreciate the real-world experience. Forgive my tongue-in-cheek responses earlier.

This is just one stop along my Noob EDC adventures. I appreciate you guys helping with the tour guide duties. I appreciate all the help I can get.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
You're putting in the effort and want to learn, so that why you're getting things thrown at you to think about.
Keep up the good work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #153 ·
Hi,

Once you get into a low light class it will make the decision easier on what light to use.
I have a hand held that I use almost daily, dog pushes its bone under the couch, turn on your flashlight and there it is.
I also now use a weapon light, due to my body falling apart its easier to have a two handed grip on the gun while firing than a hand on a light and the other on the gun.
I still gave the handheld in case I need to see something but don't want to draw my weapon to see it, the hand held can be dropped while drawing and then use the weapon light as needed.

My original post was just to make you think about the painted sights before you actually need them.
Again, real world experiences being shared. I love it. I didn't think of a hand-held AND a weapon light. Great idea.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
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Hi,



Again, real world experiences being shared. I love it. I didn't think of a hand-held AND a weapon light. Great idea.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
Yes Sir, they serve different purposes.

I have a clip on the hand held that has a rubber ring on it. I clip the light to my pocket and that rubber loop (key ring size) sits outside the pocket, I put my middle finger through the loop and the light is where it needs to be and gets yanked out of the pocket (weak side) similar to drawing a gun from a holster. If you want to drop the light just lower your hand and shake it a little and it drops to the ground.

Once you have a hand held light, you will be surprised at how often you use them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #155 ·
Hi,

And remember also it's not just about darkness - but also how the varying types of ambient lighting that is often seen in modern society can distort our scotopic vision. It's about understanding what photonics barriers are and how to combat them. It's about remembering that, as this article by Dr. House points out, while the statistics suggest that violent crimes most often occurs during hours of darkness, those same statistics fail to actually examine whether if the engagement truly took place in the dark. In the article, he quotes the legendary Tom Givens as saying that “There have been times where I have seen my sights clearer at 3 AM outside of a well-lit gas station than I have at 3 PM on an overcast day.” - Low light, red sights, and Tom Givens’ Glock 35

This is why it's so important to get out and get low-light training, so that you can start to experiment with the various hardware and techniques.
Exactly, just because it's nighttime does not mean that it's dark. During daylight hours the lighting conditions may not be ideal. You guys are on the ball. My brain is starting to hurt. 🤪

I'll keep an eye out for low-light training. I can dry fire at home in low light. I can turn off the lane light at my local indoor range. That's about it for now. I guess it will have to do.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
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Discussion Starter · #156 ·
Hi,

Yes Sir, they serve different purposes.

I have a clip on the hand held that has a rubber ring on it. I clip the light to my pocket and that rubber loop (key ring size) sits outside the pocket, I put my middle finger through the loop and the light is where it needs to be and gets yanked out of the pocket (weak side) similar to drawing a gun from a holster. If you want to drop the light just lower your hand and shake it a little and it drops to the ground.

Once you have a hand held light, you will be surprised at how often you use them.
I usually have a flashlight or two with me. Since I'm on a dark stage quite a bit (my side hustle as a musician) a flashlight comes in handy when moving or hooking up gear. I'll so some research into EDC lights. Thanks!


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
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Discussion Starter · #157 ·
Hi,

It seems the "charge" for the phosphor glow on this paint doesn't last that long. I just pulled it out of my holster to see what it looks like.

Grey Mist Visual arts Paint Art


That's what it looks like after spending the night on my night stand then ambient room light in the morning until I strapped it on.

This is what it looks like after about a 15 second "charge" from a light bulb.
Grey Gas Fashion accessory Wrist Art


So, yeah, this can work if I remember to "charge" the paint periodically, before I go out at night, before I go to bed, etc. I'm sure I'll eventually spend more money for a more convenient solution, unless someone talks me out of the TruGlo TFX Pro. ;)


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 

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The 1/2 dozen sets of Trijicon HD sights I've used prior to switching to RDS, that ring in the front sight was useless if the gun was holstered and I am in a dark area.
Ah! I apologize if my wording above confused - yes, that is correct, in that scenario, the photo-luminescent ring will not "charge." But the scenario I painted for @BassCliff in my reply above was when the transition took place from a bright (note that I specified not just "brighter," but actually "bright," with emphasis) ambient to darker:

You can experiment with this and find out for yourself, @BassCliff, with a handgun that only has tritium tubes - typically, upon transition to a darkened environment from an extremely bright one (i.e. sunlight, outdoors to a darkened motel room or warehouse interior), it takes a moment (a few eye-blinks' worth of time - think of this as the reverse of heading outdoors into bright sunlight, after you'd just been in the movie theater for 90 to 120 minutes) before your eyes will adjust sufficiently to the lowered light levels to enable you to see the tritium illumination.

With the photo-luminescent paint that surrounds the tritium element, as you transition from a bright (not just brighter - but actually "bright," as that's what's needed to actually "charge" that paint) environment to a darker one, the extremely bright photo-luminescent highlight will allow as-yet still maladapted eyes to be able to pick up on its brilliance - which, by the time it's faded-out, you'll have sufficient dark-adapted sight to pick up the fainter glow of the tritium lamp.
There must be sufficient light to effect that initial charge.

This bright to darker progression is also what causes our eyes to not be able to initially pick up the auto-luminescence from the tritium lamp during those first moments in the transition from bright-to-dark, where our eyes have not adjusted from photopic to scotopic. [ Note that this is -not- the same as "dark adaptation," which requires considerably more time to effect. ]

The best example of the utility of photo-luminescence is in this sudden bright-to-darker transition: say, from having staged with gun-drawn outdoors, in bright sunlight, and then upon entry to a darker interior environment. Yes, this usage is limited, but then again, none of the tools which help us see in darker conditions -or darkness- are free of shortcomings. :)

I hope this helps clarify, and again, I apologize for not having made my case more clear. :)


I really think that this set of pictures is better/best suited for the discussion of why having tritium-lamp "night sights" can be beneficial.

Here, much as is seen in the old write-up by the late ToddG , we have sufficient lighting in the plane of the threat that PID is possible, yet, the body of the sights is hard/harder to resolve.

Certainly, one could make the argument that at the kinds of distances in each of these examples that even non-sighted fire would more than suffice (which is one of the questions I brought up for you to explore in your training, in post #143 above, @BassCliff ;) ), but [for the certainty of being able] to effect a low-percentage shot, having the reference point(s) -if not outright ability to align the sight- of the tritium lamp(s) can also be argued to offer a considerable advantage.

And this leads us to......

...As for accuracy, I put a dot of the glow paint right in the corner of the diamonds on the rear sight so that when you line up your sights it should be on target. Something like in this "simulation". (Pardon my lousy photo editing skills.)

View attachment 850927

If I'm in a gun fight at night, in the dark, it would probably be a close range. I figure as long as the front sight is in the ball park I will be able to defend myself. This is a low-cost experiment, thought I'd give it a try. I have yet to train with a weapon light or a flashlight in my off hand. It's just part of my adventure. ;)
First, a bit of an aside......

(y) Excellent. Indeed, as brother @.45fan pointed out, this is why we're all spit-balling at you, here. :) You're already on the right track, and we're hoping that by tossing a few more questions and challenges at you -in our own ways something akin to a *******'s version of the Socratic Method 😅- we'd drive you to look (no pun intended) even deeper into the darkness (oh, that was just awful....). Like he said, keep up the good work!

So, now that I've finished blowing smoke up your ass 😊, let's get back at it.

Part of the reason why I asked you about the configuration of the highlights is to find out what your thinking is, regarding sight-alignment/sight-picture in low-light scenarios.

With a "three dot" setup, one often-cited reason for those who prefer a different way of marking the front versus rears is because of the possibility that, under stress and without sufficient lighting to resolve the sight bodies, it's possible to visually transpose the front highlight to one side of the rear or the other, resulting in gross indexing (forget alignment) issues (a shooter's inability to properly index the gun within their dominant firing grip can also be either the root cause of this mistake, or can cause further exacerbation of the error). As you know already, different shooters prefer different sights, and this also comes under that same umbrella, with guys like Chris Costa in-particular having noted preferences for a single-front/single-rear marking setup (like the Night Fision product marketed under his name, or the Heinie "Straight 8" setup, as he noted in The Art of the Dynamic Handgun, back in his Magpul days)

[ Aside - remember this, from another of our discussions? Sight misalignment, speed, and accuracy - Look at distance-to-target template, and look at what the sight-alignment deviations resulted in.... How can we extrapolate this to the current discussion regarding the transposition of the front dot outside either the left- or right-rear? And again, do we even need sights? ]

That said......

I think your current painted indexing points are logical, but be sure to double-check to see what they do, live-fire, under dimmer lighting, in terms of POA/POI. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?77290-Proper-sight-picture-for-night-sights - was a good, shorter thread on M4C.net, and I would urge you to pay attention to member Failure2Stop's comments (that's Jack Leuba, BTW). Find out how your dot alignment on your pistol, using your ammo, hits. What you "see" in brighter conditions may or may not match what you get, as the lights get turned down.


RE: white-light (string of replies) -

I carry concealed. I don't EDC a flashlight (yet) but I have one in my truck's glove box (300 lumens) and keep a big one (2500 lumens) on my nightstand. I've hinted that I wanted an EDC knife for Christmas, an EDC light will be next. I have not decided between weapon light and flashlight in my off hand. I'm getting there. ;) So for now, if necessary I will carry the flashlight in the off hand. I suppose I should practice that when I dry fire with my laser.
Once you get into a low light class it will make the decision easier on what light to use.
I have a hand held that I use almost daily, dog pushes its bone under the couch, turn on your flashlight and there it is.
I also now use a weapon light, due to my body falling apart its easier to have a two handed grip on the gun while firing than a hand on a light and the other on the gun.
I still gave the handheld in case I need to see something but don't want to draw my weapon to see it, the hand held can be dropped while drawing and then use the weapon light as needed.
Again, real world experiences being shared. I love it. I didn't think of a hand-held AND a weapon light. Great idea.
Yes Sir, they serve different purposes.

I have a clip on the hand held that has a rubber ring on it. I clip the light to my pocket and that rubber loop (key ring size) sits outside the pocket, I put my middle finger through the loop and the light is where it needs to be and gets yanked out of the pocket (weak side) similar to drawing a gun from a holster. If you want to drop the light just lower your hand and shake it a little and it drops to the ground.

Once you have a hand held light, you will be surprised at how often you use them.
I usually have a flashlight or two with me. Since I'm on a dark stage quite a bit (my side hustle as a musician) a flashlight comes in handy when moving or hooking up gear. I'll so some research into EDC lights. Thanks!
So, having "with" and having "on" are very different things, right? :) Now that you have been a legal concealed-carrier for a while, think of how different a scenario could play out -God forbid in a venue where you were playing- if your weapon was in your vehicle versus on you. Or if your weapon was in a lock-box in the green-room.

The "tactical" white-light is sorta the same, and as @.45fan suggests, once you've had one on you for a while, you'll start to feel naked in its absence. Yes, the modern smartphone is a good stand-in, in most "administrative" tasks (so were the old cameraphones, where you could hack the flash ;)), but in an emergency situation where that light is "needed right now to shine light over there to see what it is," there really is no substitute for an immediately-accessible stand-alone handheld. The ability to PID potential threats and the deterrence/control factor that it offers simply cannot be had, with laser devices or the smartphone screen or flash.

Your big nightstand light would, I imagine, be somewhat too large/bulky to EDC, but there are now multitudes of single or double-AA, single or double-CR123, and single rechargeable 18350, 18650 or even 21700 battery offerings that not only match - but can well exceed the quoted 2500 lumens offered by that light. Modern EDC handhelds of the "tactical" genre all offer form-factors that offer reasonable concealment options, particularly in casual wear, and all have purpose-designed control surfaces and "switchology" to allow for proper "tactical" use.

[ Keep in mind the differences between lumens versus candela/lux, where the former can be thought of as the raw power pushed across the die, while the latter is how tightly that light is focused (which translates to how far it can be cast - aka "thrown"). A floodlight is high-lumens, low-candela, and has limited reach, while a spotlight can well be considerably lower in lumens, yet its more focused light (high candela) allows that light to be "thrown" out to-distance. While some techniques can make up for a deficit of lumens (via high candela), a light that does not have the throw simply cannot magically summon more throw - unless you're Gandalf. ;) ]

Particularly if you intend to pair the EDC handheld with a weapon-mounted light, you can bias the equation so that each light compliments the other, as @.45fan suggested. This can be particularly important if there are constraints/limitations which affected your selection of one or the other. For example, personally, my EDC handgun -an XDm 3.8 Compact- wears a rather anemic Surefire XC-1 due to my concealment needs: it's got reasonable lumens-for-size, but it's throw is absolutely sad. So, my handheld seeks to compliment/remedy that concern, with more attention paid towards throw.

I've put up these pictures before, of me in a low-light class from years ago:

Flash photography Tints and shades Darkness Midnight Font


^ That setup in-action, in low-light class with Apex Shooting and Tactics, Ohio. Target is a Challenge TDI at 10 yards.

And at the SAME CLASS, this was with my then EDC handheld a Surefire EB2-T.

Gas Tints and shades Darkness Space Heat


You can see just how much more powerful the handheld is, and how, even though I missed the plate with my lighting (my technique was lacking - the hand-eye coordination wasn't there), I could still easily make out the threat through the gun smoke suspended in the air, even though I was only using the "dirty" portion of the light.

What you can't see from these two pictures, of-course, was what I was doing during the rest of the class. As @.45fan noted above, it's often significantly easier to shoot with a pistol-WML, as by-definition it is mounted to the pistol, and you can get fully get both hands on the gun (if not exactly in optimal grip, with the support hand, depending on WML switching and switchology). There were evolutions where I specifically started out shooting with the handheld in my support hand, but then dropped it and went to WML, when I felt it would have been advantageous to do so (or to simulate a "whoopsie" - or even an injury).

These devices - night sights, photo-luminescent paint, WML or handheld white-lights, visible laser, a slide-mounted RDS, etc. - are simply tools that enable options. Are any or all of them necessary? I think it depends a lot on the needs of that particular shooter. And I think that the unique use context of any one or another unique shooter may require one more than the other. I also think that there can be compromises for/against each tool, and with the options specific to each.


And as-always, if you want more about "tactical" white-light EDC handhelds, here's an old thread in which my replies to @.45fan may also be of-use to you. :)


and another, here:


:)
 

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Hi,

It seems the "charge" for the phosphor glow on this paint doesn't last that long. I just pulled it out of my holster to see what it looks like.

View attachment 850976

That's what it looks like after spending the night on my night stand then ambient room light in the morning until I strapped it on.

This is what it looks like after about a 15 second "charge" from a light bulb.
View attachment 850977

So, yeah, this can work if I remember to "charge" the paint periodically, before I go out at night, before I go to bed, etc. I'm sure I'll eventually spend more money for a more convenient solution, unless someone talks me out of the TruGlo TFX Pro. ;)
Remember the differences in the types of Super-LumiNova? - https://www.keepthetime.com/blog/super-luminova/

It's like that. ;)

So, we're back to the *******-Socratic.....

My question: what's happening to your eyes, while you're blasting your sights with white-light in an effort to charge up the lume sufficiently to do the task that you want done?

And does the lume actually offer any advantages, in the context of needing sufficient light to PID the threat, particularly in the context of your usage?

And practically speaking, how will you be able to maintain luminescent intensity, when you're out at a gig or at dinner, concealed-carry?

At maximum exposure, how long will the lume last? Enough for a whole night's sleep? A nap? Does the lume degrade over time - and if so, what's the mean time between reapplication?
 

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Hi,

Remember the differences in the types of Super-LumiNova? - https://www.keepthetime.com/blog/super-luminova/

It's like that. ;)

So, we're back to the ***-Socratic.....

My question: what's happening to your eyes, while you're blasting your sights with white-light in an effort to charge up the lume sufficiently to do the task that you want done?

And does the lume actually offer any advantages, in the context of needing sufficient light to PID the threat, particularly in the context of your usage?

And practically speaking, how will you be able to maintain luminescent intensity, when you're out at a gig or at dinner, concealed-carry?

At maximum exposure, how long will the lume last? Enough for a whole night's sleep? A nap? Does the lume degrade over time - and if so, what's the mean time between reapplication?
Lots to consider, thanks to both of you ( @.45fan and @TSiWRX ) for covering so many angles to low-light SD and all the options available. I'm just dipping my toe in the water with my little bottle of Glow-On. I haven't tried my cheap laser sight with my XD9 yet. I worked with it a little bit on my P22 and took it to the indoor range once. I haven't really embraced it yet because it's only a $40 unit. But again, just dipping my toe. ;)



When "re-charging" the luminescence you don't want to look into that same bright light because it will ruin your low-light vision. Back in my skydiving days I was studying up for a Class D license. I had my C license and, beside the written test, needed a night jump as one of the qualifications. In talking about it with the other skydivers one guy told me his story; After jumping all day they were relaxing after sunset waiting for dark, wearing sunglasses in the dark to get their pupils to open up even more for their night jump. Once they got to altitude they all took off their sunglasses as they readied to jump. Just then the videographer turned on his big camera light to film the exit and the freefall. It totally destroyed the "night vision" the jumpers had been working on all evening. Thankfully the jump went OK but the skydivers were pretty sore at the video guy. He could've waited until after the exit. Oops.

I'll have another look at my little glow-dots in a minute and try to figure out how long they remain visible/usable after a "charge". But in the short time I've experimented with it, I'm already thinking this will not be a permanent solution.

Seems the nanny-software on this form is cutting in. I see "***-Socratic". :LOL:


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
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