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Wont hurt the gun AT ALL

I reload and alot of it is with unplated bullets.

Just means a little more effort in cleaning. And with a short barrel pistol the lead does not build up all that much.


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Not worried about build-up. The “ledge” on the LRN unplated bullet hangs up on the ejecting case and causes unreliable feeding.



 

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Not worried about build-up. The “ledge” on the LRN unplated bullet hangs up on the ejecting case and causes unreliable feeding.



Hmmm. Very interesting. Are those factory or reloads? Doesn’t look like enough of a crimp on those rounds. Just a guess as I don’t have much reloading experience.


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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Hi,

In my limited experience, lead fouling is not pretty. I’m kinda OCD on how clean my guns stay. It isn’t so much an accuracy issue as it is a cleanliness issue. I’ve shot my fair share of leaded rounds and personally not a fan. But, if that is all you have to work with, then well, that is that.

I know a few cast their own lead bullets and reload. That’s a lot of work!

As far as remanufactured ammo goes, I’ve also shot quite a bit of that. Freedom Munitions was my go to when they shipped to CA, but no longer.

There were complaints that some of the reman was underpowered and caused malfunctions etc. but, to be honest, those complaints were across the board due to the severe shortage. I haven’t heard of any lately however.


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Good to know! Thank you, sir. Ya know, somebody already bought all that reman I was looking at. Ya snooze, ya lose, I guess. ;)


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 

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Hi,



Good to know! Thank you, sir. Ya know, somebody already bought all that reman I was looking at. Ya snooze, ya lose, I guess. ;)


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
Precision One has been a good source for reliable reman or new. I've been impressed with the consistency of their loads.
 

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Not worried about build-up. The “ledge” on the LRN unplated bullet hangs up on the ejecting case and causes unreliable feeding.



Barnaul and Monarch steel ammo has the same design issue. I've had it cause an undischarged stovepipe. What in the heck is the proper name for that feed error?
 

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Not worried about build-up. The “ledge” on the LRN unplated bullet hangs up on the ejecting case and causes unreliable feeding.



Well I dont own any Springfield hand guns all mine are smiths.
I also have polished my feed ramps on my SA guns. Wouldnt help with what the poc shows but does help in feeding. Cant say Ive had that issue with RNL bullets. If those were reloads imo looks like they were possibly under powered and the slide was not recoiling with enough speed to clear new round before tension pushed it up.

And looking at the round in pic it appears that whomever reloaded those rounds did not put a crimp on um. Left the case edge flat/square hence the reason they would have issues feeding. I crimp all my pistol ammo. One extra step in the reload process on a single stage press is all.

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Well I dont own any Springfield hand guns all mine are smiths.
I also have polished my feed ramps on my SA guns. Wouldnt help with what the poc shows but does help in feeding. Cant say Ive had that issue with RNL bullets. If those were reloads imo looks like they were possibly under powered and the slide was not recoiling with enough speed to clear new round before tension pushed it up.

And looking at the round in pic it appears that whomever reloaded those rounds did not put a crimp on um. Left the case edge flat/square hence the reason they would have issues feeding. I crimp all my pistol ammo. One extra step in the reload process on a single stage press is all.

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Yeah I wish I had taken a better pic of the round, but the bullet appeared to be like a "pre-plated" bullet... It had a ledge on it right at the casing. Either way, I didn't buy any more LRN and my XD feeds very reliably on everything else I've ever thrown at it (oh, except for WWB but can't remember the issue).

Polishing feed ramps is a very satisfying activity.... love the mirror-like finish when you're done.
 

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Yeah I wish I had taken a better pic of the round, but the bullet appeared to be like a "pre-plated" bullet... It had a ledge on it right at the casing. Either way, I didn't buy any more LRN and my XD feeds very reliably on everything else I've ever thrown at it (oh, except for WWB but can't remember the issue).

Polishing feed ramps is a very satisfying activity.... love the mirror-like finish when you're done.
Same with WWB here for me.
I avoid if at all possible these days.
From your description above almost sounds like they were t set in as most lead bullets will have a ridge/seat groove. At least the last ones I did in 45 40 and 38/357 all had a distinct groove at seat depth.


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^ It seems that the trend of declining QC/QA due to maxed-out production schedules is again playing an issue with available commercial ammo these days.

The Facebook pages of several of the instructors/schools I follow have posted warnings of various faulty new-production ammo - from big manufacturers - much as what a lot of us saw back between 2013-2014, as we recovered from the 2012 shortage.


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I guess "keeping the barrel clean" sounded like hype to me, snake oil, something you advertise to sucker noobs like me. Do I understand correctly that instead of a copper coating over the lead bullet, the TPJ uses a polymer to coat the lead? If so, am I correct in supposing that a range day shooting 200 - 500 rounds of this will have no ill effects on my pistol? (After a good cleaning, of course.)
Most shooters do report that the bore is easier to clean with various polymer-coated bullets, but towards this.....

I know accuracy will go down as fatigue sets in. A 500 round day at the range would be a really long one for me. I've had so little time with my new pistol I'm not going to blame accuracy on anything but me, not ammo, not sights, just lack of practice or proper technique. ;)
I'll posit that for handgun shooters other than those who compete in bullseye, the level of accuracy/precision is more related to unique ammo-to-gun tolerance staking issues and shooter skill/capability, versus how clean one's bore happens to be. :)

Put it this way....

I'm happy with:

(1) Cleaning the Dot Torture drill at 5 yards.
(2) 10 shots and my holes are all touching, at the 7 yard line.
(3) A 95+ score on the 10-10-10, shot as a true cold test.
(4) 5 inch group, 10 shots, at the 25 yard line.
(5) 8/10 on a C-zone target at 75 yards; 7/10 at 100 yards (I struggle with the 100) - this level of performance translates to on-demand C-zone shots at the 50 yard line.

I rarely clean my beater guns that I use for classes and training/practice - and that includes the barrel.

816442

816443


^ This is the state of my 3.8 Compact at most times. Its 4.5-inch sister typically sits the same (but thanks to the finish on the smaller gun, you can see the yuck, better :p). It's only when I am looking at a training class where I want to absolutely insure that I don't suffer a stoppage that I actually clean them.

I expect - and see - the performance that I specified above, even when the guns are this dirty. As with many higher-volume shooters, I average about 10K rounds a year (for the last few years, it's split 70-30 between this smaller gun and its bigger sister; back when I first started, the split was the other way around, and the rate at which I consumed ammo was also a lot higher back then, when I first started). I used to clean my training/practice beaters religiously, but after talking with other shooters of the same mindset and goals, I came to realize that I was pursuing a zero-sum.

That said, as long as you clean appropriately (overzealous cleaning is one of the most harmful things you can do to a modern service-grade firearm: military M4s/M16s and civilan/LE AR15s offer some of the best -er...worst?- examples of this), it certainly won't harm anything, and a the visual inspection you can give to the cleaned gun and components actually offers a great benefit towards insuring the proper function of the weapon as well as being able to catch failures early.

At ranges/facilities where plated/jacketed bullets are not allowed, polymer-coated bullets do have a place.

There also used to be a noticeable price differential, but I am not sure how things sit with regard to this, today.
 

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In general a hun that has “issues” when it gets a little dirty IS NOT a gun I want to depend on.

If you cant run several hundred rounds through it with out issue then something is a miss with the firearm.

One definite reason I prefer AK over AR you cant get an AK dirty enough to stop it. You can an AR.


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Greetings,

Most of the shops around here have limits. Turner's is two boxes. Big 5 is three boxes. It seems like everyone gets a new shipment once a week, it's hit-and-miss what they'll have in stock, and it's all sold out that day. At Turner's and Big 5 the cost has been 50 cents a round or cheaper. One day I drove a half hour to a recommended shop (that supposedly had no limits) and paid $60 for fifty rounds of WWB 124 grain. Since I had driven all that way I went ahead and bought two boxes. I didn't want to waste the trip. At those prices they are still selling out. But I'll not buy there again.

Today, being Monday, my local Turner's usually gets in their shipment. I got to the store before the big rush, only had to wait eighteen numbers until mine was called.

View attachment 816180

Big 5 and Turners usually have the Federal 115 grain range ammo, but it can vary, Fiocchi, Aquila, etc. I do love bringing home these bright yellow bags.

View attachment 816179

Today Turner's had some very generic white box ammo.

View attachment 816181

It was $25 a box total, 50 cents a round, limit 2 boxes, 100 rounds. I commented to the sales clerk, "Wow, that's some really generic white box ammo." She said it's CCI. I thought, OK, cool. I got home and, sure enough, here's the fine print.

View attachment 816182

I've been collecting ammo since picking up my XD9 last month, but at a pace that's only 100-150 rounds a week. I'm lucky I have a friend with oodles to spare. He gave me 400 rounds, of which half is gone. I have 20 rounds of SD ammo, a 147 grain JHP from Federal. The rest is range ammo, but still less than 1000 rounds.

I've been thinking of buying online from one of the few dealers who will ship to California. I've been trading at a gun shop who charges a flat $20 fee to do the FFL thing. But the cheapest bulk ammo I've found (~61 cents/round) is at ammunitiondepot.com:

View attachment 816183

I'm not familiar with U.S. Cartridge at all. Plus by the time you add shipping, taxes, FFL, etc, it adds another 10 cents a round. They will ship to my gun shop. That's good. But I'm torn between being patient, building up my inventory slowly to save a little $$, or buy a case at that price just to have it and hope that it tides me over until the prices start to stabilize again. It's tough to get in a good practice at the range when you want to shoot a few hundred rounds but can only replace it at 100 rounds a week. I guess I'll get one range day a month for a while. :p

OK, I'll stop rambling. Call me "impatient". I'd be happy to hear your thoughts and suggestions, especially if you know where to order cheap ammo. ;) I suppose a lot of us who are late to the game are in the same boat. There's no real point to this post, just blowing off steam. Thanks for your time.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
Basscliff, I am in Lousiana and have not been able to find much 9mm for a while. However our Academy Big Box store has it sometimes. i stopped at a local gun store and range. They had 9mm 115gr for $25 a box of 50. I didn't buy any there but went by Academy and they had it for $11.99-$12.99/box, 3 box max. They even had some 45acp as well. Price gouging on ammo is real for sure. JohnD
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Hi,

Basscliff, I am in Lousiana and have not been able to find much 9mm for a while. However our Academy Big Box store has it sometimes. i stopped at a local gun store and range. They had 9mm 115gr for $25 a box of 50. I didn't buy any there but went by Academy and they had it for $11.99-$12.99/box, 3 box max. They even had some 45acp as well. Price gouging on ammo is real for sure. JohnD
Wow! Twelve or thirteen bucks a box is amazing these days. Around here if you can buy range ammo for $25 a box (50 cents a round) you're doing pretty good. Seems I was able to buy it for $15 a box just last month, with limits. The quest continues. Thanks for commiserating with me. ;)


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 

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Basscliff, I am in Lousiana and have not been able to find much 9mm for a while. However our Academy Big Box store has it sometimes. i stopped at a local gun store and range. They had 9mm 115gr for $25 a box of 50. I didn't buy any there but went by Academy and they had it for $11.99-$12.99/box, 3 box max. They even had some 45acp as well. Price gouging on ammo is real for sure. JohnD
I suspect the reason that Academy and a few other big retailers can still hold out with better pricing is because they likely have committed contracts. Depending on how long the ammo market is dry we could see their pricing increase as well.
 

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What do you consider "overzealous cleaning"?... Just curious. :)
Good question!

Mostly what the military used to instill in the lower ranks - the P&S AR videos (specifically the QA/QC one) talks a lot about the harm that these "white glove" regiments can do. But even us Average-Joe/Jane civilians can get carried away: for example, the use of a specifically-designed-for-purpose scraping tool on the bolt-tail of the AR15.

Similarly, the use of improper solvents can also create problems such as embrittlement.

With handguns, guys love to get aggressive with the bore. I've seen folks literally use a power-drill with stainless brush attachments attack their bore every few hundred rounds.....
 

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Good question!

Mostly what the military used to instill in the lower ranks - the P&S AR videos (specifically the QA/QC one) talks a lot about the harm that these "white glove" regiments can do. But even us Average-Joe/Jane civilians can get carried away: for example, the use of a specifically-designed-for-purpose scraping tool on the bolt-tail of the AR15.

Similarly, the use of improper solvents can also create problems such as embrittlement.

With handguns, guys love to get aggressive with the bore. I've seen folks literally use a power-drill with stainless brush attachments attack their bore every few hundred rounds.....
You cant fix stupid


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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Hi!

You cant fix stupid


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I like using a reamer myself... shoots like sh*t afterwards... but the bore sure is nice and purdy!! ;)
:D :LOL: :ROFLMAO: :oops:

I keep my gun like I keep house; clean enough to be healthy, dirty enough to be happy. ;)

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
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I haven't bought any ammo since all the craziness started. Prices aren't going to come down till people stop paying 60cpr for 9mm. Why would they lower it if they can sell it for that price the day it comes in? I do feel bad for people that are new to shooting. They aren't panic buying. They just have a new firearm and would like to be able to actually shoot it some. It sucks but all I can say is slow down. Ammo is stupid expensive right now and in short supply. Trying to dump hundreds of rounds at the range every weekend just isn't practical or even realistic. Once the panic dies down and prices come down just remember this. This isn't anything new. Something happens ammo dries up and prices sky rocket. Politicians start pushing for new gun control and mags that were 10-20 bucks are all the sudden 50-60 if you can find them. Guns can almost double in price in a week or two when they start talking about banning this or that. When things are calm stock up enough so you can wait out these shortages.
 

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Purchases of guns seem to have slowed and inventory is catching up. The same will happen with ammo. At the prices they have now reached on popular ammo sites I've noticed that purchasing is slowing as well and it is taking longer for them to run through their inventory. Once primer availability catches up we should begin to see prices slowly decline.
 
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