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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My local gun store is trying to push some Liberty Civil Defense 45 ACP 78 Grain +P ammo on me. I am usually a little suspect when a gun store "recommends" a new type of product so has anyone tried this ammo?

Does it function well in the XDS45 3.3? If so, would you recommend it or stay away from it?

Thanks in advance!
 

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I wouldn't recommend it in any firearm for any reason besides novelty use.

It's a gimmick round. Stay far far away from it.
 

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Welcome to the forum!

Now, onto the subject at hand ;)

Fragmenting? 78gr? No way. Never. Give me 230gr Federal HST's, aka flying ashtrays. I carry a .45 for a reason: to send the largest bullets I can at the bad guy in a comfortable & easy to carry gun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks! My XDS 45 shoots everything well so I will stick with the proven Federal and Hornady 230 grain loads!

BTW, DJCantonGA and ELBSCORP I grew up in North GA and miss all my family there!
 

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When I first heard of these rounds, I thought it was a gimmick, but what is intuition + ignorance worth? After some research, the light recoil and ballistic gelatin results look pretty impressive. I'd be interested in how well they feed in different 45s. They are pretty expensive to be getting the needed practice with. I won't be buying any soon, but would be interested in hearing more about them.
 

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Just curious how many of you downing this round saw the bandwagon rolling through town and jumped on with out any research or experience. "So and so on a gun forum said it so it must be true...". There are also people who will say if you carry a 9mm you might as well throw the round at them. There will always be purists. That being said its what I carry. I was given a couple boxes to try out by my local gun dealer (an old high school buddy and my hunting partner). I was skeptical at first too, 78gr? Umm no thanks. I was carrying HST at the time. But I figured what the hell its free, lets see what its all about. First stop good ole youtube for some ballistics gel tests. Hmmm kind of impressive. Lets take it to the range and test recoil. Wow, its actually significantly less recoil and follow ups are a breeze. About a week later some friends called us to cull some feral hogs that were over running their property. As we were loading them into the truck for that weekends bbq my buddy asked if I had some of that liberty ammo for some real world testing. I always carry my XDS and just happened to have the other box in my shooting bag (still didnt trust it for edc). The results on the carcass were impressive. After about an inch of penetration it looked like a freakin grenade went off. Massive tissue and organ damage and the base of the bullet continued on for a total of 11 inches of penetration with a permanent wound channel that was nothing to scoff at. That was good enough for me. Yes you sacrifice mass but gain significant velocity and recoil reduction (both important factors with 3.3 inch barrel imo). Plus what I experienced with the carcass any bg is done son. In the end carry what you are comfortable with. Do some research and develope your own opinion. Dont just believe everything you read on a public forum. While there are alot of people here that I trust their opinion there are others that just like to hear themselves talk. No offense, just my .02 .
 

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I wouldn't recommend it in any firearm for any reason besides novelty use.

It's a gimmick round. Stay far far away from it.
This. I have been on a quest to find the perfect pistol defense round. Along the way I have found a lot of expensive, but worthless gimmick rounds, this is one of them. Get HST or Gold Dot.
 

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When I first heard of these rounds, I thought it was a gimmick, but what is intuition + ignorance worth? After some research, the light recoil and ballistic gelatin results look pretty impressive. I'd be interested in how well they feed in different 45s. They are pretty expensive to be getting the needed practice with. I won't be buying any soon, but would be interested in hearing more about them.
Just curious how many of you downing this round saw the bandwagon rolling through town and jumped on with out any research or experience. "So and so on a gun forum said it so it must be true...". There are also people who will say if you carry a 9mm you might as well throw the round at them. There will always be purists. That being said its what I carry. I was given a couple boxes to try out by my local gun dealer (an old high school buddy and my hunting partner). I was skeptical at first too, 78gr? Umm no thanks. I was carrying HST at the time. But I figured what the hell its free, lets see what its all about. First stop good ole youtube for some ballistics gel tests. Hmmm kind of impressive. Lets take it to the range and test recoil. Wow, its actually significantly less recoil and follow ups are a breeze. About a week later some friends called us to cull some feral hogs that were over running their property. As we were loading them into the truck for that weekends bbq my buddy asked if I had some of that liberty ammo for some real world testing. I always carry my XDS and just happened to have the other box in my shooting bag (still didnt trust it for edc). The results on the carcass were impressive. After about an inch of penetration it looked like a freakin grenade went off. Massive tissue and organ damage and the base of the bullet continued on for a total of 11 inches of penetration with a permanent wound channel that was nothing to scoff at. That was good enough for me. Yes you sacrifice mass but gain significant velocity and recoil reduction (both important factors with 3.3 inch barrel imo). Plus what I experienced with the carcass any bg is done son. In the end carry what you are comfortable with. Do some research and develope your own opinion. Dont just believe everything you read on a public forum. While there are alot of people here that I trust their opinion there are others that just like to hear themselves talk. No offense, just my .02 .
Not jumping on any bandwagon.

Some of us have been around long enough to know that any lightweight, hypervelocity bullets out of handguns are poor performers.

We also know how easy it is to fake gelatin tests for a boobtoob channel--see G2RIP and their airsoft-sized, not true spec blocks.

We've seen it with Glasers, we've seen it with RBCD, we've seen it with Extreme Shock, and DRT...so the simple fact is, they offer nothing new.

We've seen them before, the gullible will buy them, the mall ninjas will extol them as the best thing ever, and people who actually understand terminal ballistics will continue to use what actually works.
 

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Hehe I guess its a good thing Im none of those things. Im hardly a new kid on the block as a combat veteran with over 30 years of firearm experience. There were several factors that led me to this round. Weight reduction for edc, higher velocity at longer ranges, lead free. I will agree that I have seen plenty of novelty rounds come and go but there are exceptions. It was the real world hog test that finally sold me, not some youtube video. Still carry HST in the home defence guns. But for something I have to carry around all day USM45 suits me fine. Again, just my personal opinion.
 

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...

Some of us have been around long enough to know that any lightweight, hypervelocity bullets out of handguns are poor performers.

...
Some of us, in the late 1980s, who had been around for a while, thought these plastic pistols coming out of Austria were a gimmick. Others of us tried them and discovered they had a lot to offer.


You may be right about this Liberty ammo. Much more off than not novelties turn out to be less impressive than the initial hype. For now I'm keeping an open mind and closed wallet.


A few years ago, I did get into some light bullet, high velocity ammo - but not nearly as extreme as what we are talking about here. I picked up 3000 rounds of .40 S&W 135 grain 1300 fps Win Ranger JHP, that was a production overrun from Homeland Security. At $900 delivered to my door, I snapped it up. The Liberty ammo is too expensive for me to try it now, but at half its price I'd get a few hundred rounds.
 

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To be fair I will say that the results of our test with the 9mm varient of the USM round from his full sized glock was less than impressive. But in a short barrel .45 these rounds are devastating and definitely terminal. The factors of organ and tissue damage, drop in bp etc. should all be considered. The initial fragmentation takes the damage radius from the size of a quarter to the size of a grapefruit giving it a much better chance of hitting something vital. And on the off chance they survive the encounter good luck finding all the pieces...
 

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I use them in both my 9mm and 45acp XDs pistols. What testing I have done has been on water jugs and deer rib cages. Both have been very reliable in chambering and extraction. I have no problem carry them in my pistol, They are lighter than regular ammo and make a very big hole, Would not want to be on the wrong end of one.


Indy
 

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Some of us, in the late 1980s, who had been around for a while, thought these plastic pistols coming out of Austria were a gimmick. Others of us tried them and discovered they had a lot to offer.


You may be right about this Liberty ammo. Much more off than not novelties turn out to be less impressive than the initial hype. For now I'm keeping an open mind and closed wallet.


A few years ago, I did get into some light bullet, high velocity ammo - but not nearly as extreme as what we are talking about here. I picked up 3000 rounds of .40 S&W 135 grain 1300 fps Win Ranger JHP, that was a production overrun from Homeland Security. At $900 delivered to my door, I snapped it up. The Liberty ammo is too expensive for me to try it now, but at half its price I'd get a few hundred rounds.
Some of us thought polymer frames were a pretty good idea when they came out in the early 70's...

Lightweight bullets underpenetrate. Foot pounds don't wound.

They're a gimmick. And if folks are choosing their carry loads based on boobtoob videos...well. Good luck with that.
 

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It was the real world hog test that finally sold me, not some youtube video. Still carry HST in the home defence guns. But for something I have to carry around all day USM45 suits me fine. Again, just my personal opinion.
I wanna read a bout a "real", real world hog test. Next time you go out culling the hogs, shoot it while it's still living. You'll get faster follow up shots. :wink:

Seriously tho, I can see a place for these in specific scenarios. Perhaps home defense in an overpacked apartment bldg, etc. Otherwise, I'm old school. Give me a proven, traditional bonded HP any day. I haven't gotten old enough where an extra 1/2 pound of ammo will break my back.

For those that like this stuff? More power to you. If you are comfortable and confident, then carry on. Plenty of folks have been killed with a 22LR. I imagine this stuff beats that any day. :cool:
 

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I tried 100 rounds of Liberty ammo.

Shot them using both my XDs45 & my Sig P220.

Bought them with my own money.

Won't be happening again.

HST's are what I'm carrying. 8)
 

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I'm with cuda.
 
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