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Anyone ever have/had "caliber remorse" with their

8K views 52 replies 39 participants last post by  bubbatime 
#1 ·
Picked up a new XD-40 on monday...

Wish I had gone with the XD-9 just due to the higher cost/lesser availability of the .40 vs. the 9mm. And seems like not a lot of difference in stopping power, IMO.

Around here, for practice target ammo, nothing but 180 gr. FMJ and can't find the 155-165 gr. in WWB, UMC, or PMC. Or affordable to me right now, JHP. No Bonus Packs, either, lol.

I know, I should have put a little more time in resarching ammo for my new gun. Hopefully, I'll enjoy shooting the .40 more!

Anyone else?
 
#27 ·
I'm totally biased, but not ignorant.
My opinion is my opinion, good for me, and I thank the admins of xdtalk for giving us this forum (and bandwidth, etc.) to voice such things.
Thank god we live in America where we can have and vocalize our opinions about anything. Maybe I'm bitter that I have to spend an extra $35 for every 1000 rounds, maybe I've had bad experiences with 9mm (the sigma, 1st glock...).
Anyway, those of you who got a .40 and have 9mm remorse, I say you have nothing to regret. Nothing, unless you were willing to ante up for the 45gap ammo costs, then we're in the same boat.
Regarding ballistics, um, I won't go into details, but I know a bit.
Personally, my first choice would be to engage any potential BG in a game of chess or offer coffee, but regrettably it would be more like seven rounds of 12 gauge Hornady Tap in their ass (although I understand you aren't supposed to shoot them anymore if they are already dead...).
And on a whole different level, I mostly shoot because I enjoy the sport. Getting better, more accurate, faster, smoother.... Godforbid I need to use my firearm skills in a defensive fashion, nonetheless, I'm as prepared as I can be, and keep working on my skills and knowledge. Classes, lots of rounds, reading, studying ammo, etc.
But I'm not really a tactical junky, I'm much more a Creedmore and Sporting Clays dork, which is reflected in my caliber choices (non-xdtalk). The vibe at silhouette matches is alot cooler than at the general range. I'd rather hang with my reloading buddies than the dude with way too much gear in full camo from my tactical class. And I'm (comparatively) a terrible shot- shooting with guys who eclipse my skill is a great challenge... and someday I hope to compete at their level. I'm so unhip in Shooterville that I'd be way more excited about a Walther KSP 200 than a tricked out Bushmaster.
So says my .223 cents.
 
#29 ·
Plinkomatic said:
I'm totally biased, but not ignorant.
My opinion is my opinion, good for me, and I thank the admins of xdtalk for giving us this forum (and bandwidth, etc.) to voice such things.
Execpt for the fact that it's verifiably wrong.

Regarding ballistics, um, I won't go into details, but I know a bit.
If you knew anything of wound ballistics. You're opinion wouldn't be anything like what your opinion is.

Personally, my first choice would be to engage any potential BG in a game of chess or offer coffee, but regrettably it would be more like seven rounds of 12 gauge Hornady Tap in their ass (although I understand you aren't supposed to shoot them anymore if they are already dead...).
I've heard the ass is a poor target :p. I'd personally try for the upper chest and the brain box around the eye's. That being said, once there dead why not shoot them a few more times. Got to make sure.
:D

If you like the .40 cause you like the .40 that's cool. It's just the reasons you used to justify liking the .40 are rubbish.

Chris (everybody's favorite local forum troll)
 
#30 ·
I do have caliber remorse. I really wish I would have gone with the 9mm, especially on the XDSC. I'm such a tard. I had the conversion barrel for the XD40 to 9mm but for some odd reason, the fact that my slide said XD40 and my barrel said 9mm conversion on it really bugged me. Plus, its often been said that conversion barrels are good for plinking but not for Self Defense. That really threw me off so I just sold the barrel and stuck with the 40. Ballistically, both the 9mm and 40SW premium rounds are close enough for me. The 9mm XDSC and the 40SW XDSC have quite a bit of recoil difference, IMHO. My hands can't take more than 200 rounds from the 40SW XDSC.
 
#31 ·
My remorse over choosing the .40 is subsiding as range time approaches. I found the UMC and WWB Value Packs in JHP, no less, as well as CCI Blazer Brass @ $8/50 (ugly stuff, btw) and I'm going back to why I chose the 40 in the first place a) never owned a gun in 40 S&W and b) 9mm isn't all that FUN to shoot, IMO. But at the time I preferred the .45 ACP and .44 mag., both more enjoyable or satisfying. Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment but the .44 mag was a Ruger Blackhawk, not bad at all.

I'm taking PMC, UMC, and WWB 50 rd. boxes to the range, all 180 gr. Depending on how the Remington or Winchester do, I'll use that brand's cheaper 180 gr. JHPs next time, both offered in Bonus Packs and go from there.

I asked this on another thread but what's recommended for drifting sights while at the range? Pay by the hour so something efficient, lol. :wink
 
#32 ·
Plinkomatic said:
9mm = euro cop round
40s&w = smart BG stopper

9 blows. Dated and poor round.
Don't be swayed by it's popularity. It's a hole maker, not a BG stopper.
Over penetrates with inadequate energy.
You made the right choice.
With all due respect Plinkomatic, opinions are expected and respected here. However...It is how they are represented that makes all of the difference.
Your statement..."It's a hole maker, not a BG stopper" is pure hyperbole and categorically wrong, and you know it. The 9mm have put more folks down and in the ground than the .40 ever will. If for no other reason...it's longevity. An argument can be made that it is overall a better defensive round, but those here that argue either side base there arguments on written material rather than real-time experience. Everyone is an armchair pistolero. A well place placed 9mm. State of the art defense round will do the job…Period!
 
#33 ·
Frenchy said:
Plinkomatic said:
9mm = euro cop round
40s&w = smart BG stopper

9 blows. Dated and poor round.
Don't be swayed by it's popularity. It's a hole maker, not a BG stopper.
Over penetrates with inadequate energy.
You made the right choice.
With all due respect Plinkomatic, opinions are expected and respected here. However...It is how they are represented that makes all of the difference.
Your statement..."It's a hole maker, not a BG stopper" is pure hyperbole and categorically wrong, and you know it. The 9mm have put more folks down and in the ground than the .40 ever will. If for no other reason...it's longevity. An argument can be made that it is overall a better defensive round, but those here that argue either side base there arguments on written material rather than real-time experience. Everyone is an armchair pistolero. A well place placed 9mm. State of the art defense round will do the job…Period!
I'd argue a well placed anything will do the job... That being said, better bullets give you more wiggle room. The difference between .22lr and a 9mm is substational. The difference between 9mm - .45ACP/GAP is hardly perceptible.

Chris(local forum troll extrodinare)
 
#34 ·
crofrog said:
Plinkomatic said:
9mm = euro cop round
40s&w = smart BG stopper

9 blows. Dated and poor round.
Don't be swayed by it's popularity. It's a hole maker, not a BG stopper.
Over penetrates with inadequate energy.
You made the right choice.
Wow, That's some ignorant ass **** right there.

Pick the calibers out. Come on you know you can tell them apart.

Image from DocGKR:
:snip:

:snip

Go there are start reading. All any pistol bullet does is poke a hole. As long as the hole is deep enough and the bullet properly expanded, and most importantly you hit the guy some where important you win.

Any one who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.

Chris (your local helpful forum troll)

i dont care what other people say about you... you know a few things, i can tell.

who said you were a troll?


o... and well said on the quote above.
 
#35 ·
therooster said:
i dont care what other people say about you... you know a few things, i can tell.
No I really don't. :) I'm to the point where I might know how much I don't know. I'm just an obsessive compullsive researcher. I just don't say anything when I have no clue about something.

who said you were a troll?
http://www.hs2000talk.com/viewtopic.php?t=27414

I think it starts around page 2 or 3.

o... and well said on the quote above.
Thanks.

Chris (I'm the best forum troll ever, and I think I'm god's gift to um... something.)
 
#36 ·
I have some caliber remorse with my XD-9 service. Not due to the effectiveness/ineffectiveness of the 9mm round. A XD in 40 can use 9mm and 357sig barrels, which makes it very flexible for range work and competition. Basically you can get 3 pistols for the price on one.

And to chime in to the 9mm vs .40 arguement- Modern 9mm HP ammo is highly effective. I trust the 9mm to stop a BG.
 
#37 ·
Plinkomatic said:
9mm = euro cop round
40s&w = smart BG stopper

9 blows. Dated and poor round.
Don't be swayed by it's popularity. It's a hole maker, not a BG stopper.
Over penetrates with inadequate energy.
You made the right choice.
You should learn how to shoot.
 
#38 ·
I didn't read all the replies, but I have NEVER had and regret about my caliber choice. I knew I wanted a 9mm. I won't even get into all the crap I've heard/read about everyone's caliber being superior, and everyone else's being girly or needing 20 shots to stop a BG.

It boils down to personal preference, accuracy w/ your weapon, reliability of your weapon, practice w/ your weapon, and lots of other things. I won't even get into it. Caliber Wars have been around too long. Give it a rest. :evil:
 
#39 ·
ya, I'm happy with my choice. not at all unhappy with the 9mm, but I reload, and I didn't want to deal with all the mil surplus brass on the marked with the crimp, and the 45 gap, and sig wasn't on the market yet.

anything is cheap to shoot if you have a dillon. bullets for 100 per 2k, and primers for 80$ for 5k. brass is free from a friend on the range, and 8 lbs is 90$...

at 6gr of pdr I figure I'm putting about 10-15 cents a round..
 
#41 ·
Forgive me if someone already suggested it but I didnt read the whole thread.

But just get all of them :wink: Thats basically what I have done with the exception of the gap (which I will never own) I prefer to shoot the 357sig mostly and use the 40 for a loaner gun and hardly ever shoot my 9mm. I keep several cases of ammo each
 
#43 ·
Sir_William said:
]check out this site and maybe your opinion of the 9mm will change...


http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot16.htm [/url]
Yeah it made me remember why I should have a rifle in my trunk.

The wounding mechanisms of a handgun bullet are 2 fold. Penetration and the permanent cavity. If it doesn't effect one of those 2 things it has no effect. A .45ACP making a slightly bigger dent in clay if anything will make a slightly bigger bruise on a human body. It won't knock them down, and in the middle of a fight they might not even know they've been shot.

Bullets kill by making a hole in the body and allowing the blood to drain out, or by disrupting the central nervous system. To allow the blood to drain out of the body quickly numerous holes in vital structures are required. Even having a bad guys heart completely destroyed he may be ambulatory for around 12 seconds(+/- 2 I can't remember and it's late). The only reliable way to effect a one hit stop involves a complete disruption of the central nervous system. Normally passing through the upper spinal column or the lower brain. Frontal lobe shots (middle of forehead) may or may not have the desired effect of immediately stopping the bad guy. Ergo on a failure to stop drill or a set-up head shot. I would aim for the eye. It's a distinct point to aim for, as well as being a soft target to insure the bullet enters into the brain instead of bouncing off the skull.

Rifles on the other hand had 2 more mechanisms of wounding temporary cavity (note this is only useful in rifles. The temp cavity from pistols has been proven to have 0 effect) and fragmentation.

While the Russian 7.62x39 FMJ, 5.45x39 FMJ and the 7.62NAT0 FMJ do not provide reliable fragmentation and generally crushing a relatively clean path through the body. This limits their overall effectiveness.

5.56NATO on the other hand upon entering the body rotates about 90 degree's and proceeds to split and the crimp. Fragmenting very reliably and producing a nice permanent cavity. This occurs with both M193 and M855 although the lighter 55grain round provides the desired fragmentation effect farther out. OTOH the 62 grain round provides better penetration of hard and soft cover.

.308 JSP and it's effects on the human body are truly amazing producing awesome permanent wound cavities.

Here are some pictures

All images courtesy of firearmstactical.com if you haven't gone to their site, and you continue to post things that are wrong. You should go there read and come back with a through understanding of how bullets actually wound.

.308 JSP


7.62x51 M80 Ball


5.56 M855


5.56 M193


5.45x39


7.62x39


Chris (challenging your perceptions)
 
#44 ·
Plinkomatic said:
9mm = euro cop round
40s&w = smart BG stopper

9 blows. Dated and poor round.
Don't be swayed by it's popularity. It's a hole maker, not a BG stopper.
Over penetrates with inadequate energy.
You made the right choice.
Keep dreaming. The 9mm does nto overpenetrate except in a FMJ, whic only a moron would use for defense unless desperate or required to by international treaty. Modern 9mm JHPs do NOT ovepentrate. The fact is both are equaly innefective (as are all handguns bullets,you need a rifle or shotgun to really stop people) in themselves and bullet placement is everything. I would rather put three 9mm rounds on target in the amount of time it takes you to do two .40. Due to lighter recoil impulse the 9mm is faster back on target and due to speedier bullet is more accurate (less flight time) and has higher expansion probability. In addition the pressure pulse of a 9mm is not as harsh on a barrel and the frame will wear less from recoil impulse over time. I know one entire academy whose staff went from G22s to G19s as the gun lasts longer and it makes for faster and more accurate shooting.

That being said I used to own a XD-40 and got rid of it. It just did not measure up to a XD-9 in accuracy and speed. Right now I get .25 second split times shooting the 9mm in controled, aimed, rapid fire at 10 yards doing Bill Drills. I know that the recoil impulse in a XD-40 would increase this a good bit.
 
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#45 ·
Plinkomatic said:
9mm = euro cop round
40s&w = smart BG stopper

9 blows. Dated and poor round.
Don't be swayed by it's popularity. It's a hole maker, not a BG stopper.
Over penetrates with inadequate energy.
You made the right choice.
If you're smart about picking your carry round there's not much difference as far as stopping BG's. The best rounds in .45acp, .357mag. and 9mm are all within a point or two of 90%.
 
#46 · (Edited)
TJP : Picked up a new XD-40 on monday...

Wish I had gone with the XD-9 just due to the higher cost/lesser availability of the .40 vs. the 9mm. And seems like not a lot of difference in stopping power, IMO.


Around here, for practice target ammo, nothing but 180 gr. FMJ and can't find the 155-165 gr. in WWB, UMC, or PMC. Or affordable to me right now, JHP. No Bonus Packs, either, lol.

I know, I should have put a little more time in researching ammo for my new gun. Hopefully, I'll enjoy shooting the .40 more!

Anyone else?
I know what you mean, and you were RIGHT , look what happened to the .40 now, notice the popularity of the 40 has gone way down since your original post back in 2005? the 40 is pretty much dead now, most LE agencies have switched back to 9mm

I always stick with the more common calibers like 9mm or 45 acp , makes it easier to stock up on more common calibers and keep it simple

with 9mm you will buy more ammo since it's more economical, and you will train more often, and become more proficient with it, you cant go wrong with the XD9

I see 40 S&W firearms in the local gun stores all the time but I always pass on them because I rather have it in 9mm

the 40 cal handguns are usually the last ones to sell, the 9mm's sell out much faster.
 
#47 ·
Nope. Just bought a couple FNS .40's. $299.99 each, brand new. The 9MM versions are about twice as much.

Live in a ban state? Even the little FNS .40 Compact holds 10 rounds in the magazine. I'll take 10 rounds of .40 over 10 rounds of 9MM.

I just bought 3 boxes of .40 S&W 180 grain hollow points (Winchester) for $20.97 for 50 rounds. I should have bought the 2 boxes of 9MM 147 grain hollow points (Winchester) for $21.97 but I was so busy picking out some test ammo of various brands/bullet weights to try out in the new FNS pistols I forgot to tell the clerk I wanted the 9MM hollow points, too.

I have no idea why the 9MM Winchester hollow points are more than the .40 S&W Winchester hollow points.

Yeah, I know I can the target practice 9MM ammo cheaper than the target practice .40.

Hey, once all those LE departments/agencies switch over to 9MM do you think it will stay cheap/available?

What's the justification for .40 costing more? More lead? More powder? More brass in the case? If that's the real reason why does .380 cost more than .40 or 9MM?
 
#50 ·
One of these days a thread will be reincarnated that talks about when 41mag was a popular round.

Love mine ...
 
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