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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So I'm reading the sticky "Cutting through the Hype and Myth" and come to the portion regarding the sight picture... Specifically how the XDs are set to the first picture and not the second.





...Even though the manual specifically states that they should be set up exactly like the second picture. I guess I'll find out one way or the other once I take my new XDm out for a spin but I wouldn't consider such a discrepancy minor, nor have I ever had a three dot sight set up like the first picture.

What's the real skinny here, if you don't mind me asking?
 

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Ignore all of that, and just go to the range. At your distance and your ammo try each sight picture. If you use a 6'oclock sight picture and you shoot low then try a combat sight picture. if you shoot high with a combat then use a 6'oclock. Simple

There is no one definite answer there are many factors that determine ballistics, aiming and were you hit. Trigger control is a big one, so is distance.
 

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Ignore all of that, and just go to the range. At your distance and your ammo try each sight picture. If you use a 6'oclock sight picture and you shoot low then try a combat sight picture. if you shoot high with a combat then use a 6'oclock. Simple
There is no one definite answer there are many factors that determine ballistics, aiming and were you hit. Trigger control is a big one, so is distance.
+2.
the Army teaches to use X,Y, and Z technique. but i always tell my soldiers, "if you have to hold the gun sideways like the movies to hit your target, mission accomplished"
the objective of shooting...is to hit a desired target. no matter what your grip, trigger squeeze, etc is.
my $.02 of course.
 

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Hello new here, just wanted to say when i was at the range with my XD-40 I had to put the target right behind the front sight and it would be dead on.
 

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Ignore all of that, and just go to the range. At your distance and your ammo try each sight picture. If you use a 6'oclock sight picture and you shoot low then try a combat sight picture. if you shoot high with a combat then use a 6'oclock. Simple

There is no one definite answer there are many factors that determine ballistics, aiming and were you hit. Trigger control is a big one, so is distance.
+1.

And if it's a halfway decent range, they'll either have a rest for you to rent or shoot from: take advantage of it so as to make yourself as little of the equation as possible.

You need to figure out how your gun spits out those bullets, not someone else's.

You also need to familiarize yourself with the external ballistics of the particular type of ammo you're using, both for range practice as well as for self-defense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
M1AShooter, fdjzim, thank you for your direct observations.

Everybody else, you're commenting as if this isn't a precision instrument built to exacting standard. Either they're built to the same aim point or they're not; none of this herky-jerky "if its low aim high if its high aim low" or "figure out where your gun shoots" stuff. I expect that of a Hipoint, not a Springfield match grade pistol. It's completely devoid of meaning, because as stated in the opening post, this:



Is nowhere close to...


...This. And ammo doesn't factor in that much at 10-20y unless it's the crappiest ammo I can get my hands on made by oompa-loompas in Elbonia. Of course I need to figure out my own gun, but any gun that has the discrepancy noted in the sticky has a huge problem in quality control or a source being used for reference is wrong. I assume that's not Springfield, so I'm wondering which is closer to being correct: The manual (pg 40) or the sticky, so I am not overly surprised when my gun starts throwing rounds where I absolutely do not expect it to. Again, I've never had a three dot sight shoot to the first example. Ever. If you're going to say what I'm seeing above boils down to 'lrn where ur gun shoots," I need to sell this pistol right now.
 

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If that doesn't work out for me I usually throw a sick curved shot like in wanted...
 

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at 20 yards and less, I use the 2nd sight picture above.


I have never been able to make the 6 o'clock sight picture work for me, even at 25 yards.
 

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Snozzallos, first, let me start off by saying that if I offended you with my post, I apologize - it truly was not intended as an insult or slight, and truly was meant to convey information.

With that in mind:

Llook at 10-8's description of different Glock sights.

Also, consider ajames's experience in the industry, if for nothing else but XD-series sights.

It's a man-made, mass-produced product. It will have variations.

I understand that you can't just pop into various stores to shoot different XD-line handguns to see if what ajames said is true, but there is something you *can* do that will show you the variability with these guns: take note of the trigger path.

These are "quirk" areas with the XD-series (as is the magazine release).

The XD-series, even the so-called "Match" ("M"-suffix) guns, are not without production variability, and is part of the reason why the aftermarket exists - so that we the individual shooters can fine-tune the guns to our preferences.

You're absolutely right in that ammo variation should not matter closer in, but by the time you start stepping back to longer distances, the additive effect of how a specific ammo likes to perform plus how the gun is set up (whether purposely or simply due to manufacture tolerances) can print quite a noticeable effect. Provided that all else is constant and consistent, the bullet does not lie.
 

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OP: All 3 of my current XDs ( .40 Sub Compact, Full Size .40 BiTone, XD45) are all your second example (POA=POI)

My previously owned XD-S 3.3 .45 was also POA=POI...

Start with that...I have severe doubts about the legitimacy of the "Sticky" simply for the reason that Operator Error and poor ammunition choices can cause the issue far more easily than Factory Installed sights that are vastly different designs...

I am not sure how the info translates to XDm pistols, but I have a 100% across the board uniformity of sights in 3 different platforms, bought 4 years apart...if they truly varied so much, whats the odds on that? :shock:

Believe the Manual until experience tells you different
 

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I use the second sight picture with my XDm 45, 3.8" compact, Shield 9mm, Glock 17, and S&W 39-2. The 6 O'clock hold is more for target shooting, at known distances, with adjustable sights.
 

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M1AShooter, fdjzim, thank you for your direct observations.

Everybody else, you're commenting as if this isn't a precision instrument built to exacting standard. Either they're built to the same aim point or they're not; none of this herky-jerky "if its low aim high if its high aim low" or "figure out where your gun shoots" stuff. I expect that of a Hipoint, not a Springfield match grade pistol. It's completely devoid of meaning, because as stated in the opening post, this:



Is nowhere close to...


...This. And ammo doesn't factor in that much at 10-20y unless it's the crappiest ammo I can get my hands on made by oompa-loompas in Elbonia. Of course I need to figure out my own gun, but any gun that has the discrepancy noted in the sticky has a huge problem in quality control or a source being used for reference is wrong. I assume that's not Springfield, so I'm wondering which is closer to being correct: The manual (pg 40) or the sticky, so I am not overly surprised when my gun starts throwing rounds where I absolutely do not expect it to. Again, I've never had a three dot sight shoot to the first example. Ever. If you're going to say what I'm seeing above boils down to 'lrn where ur gun shoots," I need to sell this pistol right now.
For someone who has never even shot a particular gun, you already seem to know everything there is to know. Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
For someone who has never even shot a particular gun, you already seem to know everything there is to know. Good luck!
Yep, it takes a genius to work three dot sights. I'm doomed.
Snozzallos, first, let me start off by saying that if I offended you with my post, I apologize - it truly was not intended as an insult or slight, and truly was meant to convey information.
I didn't take offense. Just the two examples given are radically different and dealing in minutia wasn't the issue. I'm fine with patterning my particular pistol. As you say, everything has variance. Ammunition likewise causes variance... But not that kind of variance. I'm just wondering (and i think I have my answer) as to which is closer. As to the other stuff, you're right.
 

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^ Two of my XDm9s printed shots directly "underneath" the dot on the front sight post. The third printed somewhere in-between the top of the blade and the dot.

I chose aftermarket sights for all three (all the same kind), specifically with the idea that all would print "under the dot."

This is all at very close range (3 yards), printing shot-on-top-of-shot. This is pretty instinctive for me, for "combat" use. However, it did take me some time to get used to this - it wasn't until my second set of 3 hours in Cerino's "Marksmanship Enhancement Clinic" that it really fell into place for me and I started to be able to drive that kind of group with a cadence.

The "lollypop 6-o'clock hold" sight-picture as evidenced by my 22/45 and my daughter's Buckmark is a bit easier to hold for pure marksmanship, though. But again, this is just my personal take. :)
 

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on my XDs I used to just put the front sight center directly under the target.
 

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I think we have to start talking about the range we're shooting at?
the POI is going to vary depending how far you are from the target anyway..
 
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